Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

I feel like only junior associates fill out Vault rankings. Every year I get the link, I see how stupidly long and tiresome the survey is, and quit halfway through or get distracted with work. I think I only made it all the way through the survey as a first year.

Either way - I want the market to break. Stop the lockstep compensation across the board. I wanna hunger games these salaries across firms.

[Anonymous User]

The last time DPW announced raises, it was on a Friday. I'm guessing tomorrow's our day.

[Anonymous User]

The last time DPW announced raises, it was on a Friday. I'm guessing tomorrow's our day.

I have 4 previous Fridays that say you’re wrong.

[Anonymous User]

The last time DPW announced raises, it was on a Friday. I'm guessing tomorrow's our day.

I have 4 previous Fridays that say you’re wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Do DPW associates actually exist? Do they care they make below market?

I'm one. I have zero doubt that DPW will make its associates whole (or more). It's honestly a little neurotic to care about that little of a difference for this short of a time (1 month). Yes it's out of the ordinary but it makes sense to me that a firm would be hesitant to raise salaries this early in the year, all things considered.

You have zero doubt they'll match but understand why they're hesitant? Doesn't hesitation imply that there is in fact doubt?

[Anonymous User]

just finished the survey (if you don't get a link it's probably bc your firm isn't participating this year). I didn't rank most firms at all, just made sure V10 all got 1s and Milbank and a few others 10s.

[Anonymous User]

Tbh I think Milbank deserves more vault points than firms like Cad and Winston. So I'm doing 10 for Milbank and 8's for the quick matchers.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

10 for the market maker.

9 for anyone who promptly matched and trued up.

1 for anyone who pays below market.

Rotten fruit baskets for anyone proudly announcing their below-market status.

And reporting CovingTTTon as an error for still being on the list, owing to their unfortunate liquidation in 2016.

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

I’ve seen many associates leave V10 to go to Cooley (and Fenwick). I haven’t seen many leave to go to Goodwin. As someone else mentioned before, Goodwin (outside of Boston) isn’t competing for the same talent as a V10.

Why does it matter? There is nothing special about working as an associate at the vast majority of V10 firms. What is so special about spending 3 years billing 2,500 at Kirkland/Skadden in order to lateral to Fenwick or Cooley?

As someone who works at a peer firm of the first group and works regularly with the latter, there is very clearly a difference in the level of training and expertise at these firms (at least in my practice). I enjoy the people at both firms but it ultimately turns into a bit of hand holding throughout the process and our juniors are usually working across from their mid levels on work streams. This isn’t even necessarily a lack of staffing, just a faster learning progression than at those other firms.

That being said, Kirkland is also atrocious in its own right in this area and is just as pleasurable as I can imagine them being in other more hostile practices combined with the incompetence of only being able to work off their own form (even if they don’t understand it).

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

I’ve seen many associates leave V10 to go to Cooley (and Fenwick). I haven’t seen many leave to go to Goodwin. As someone else mentioned before, Goodwin (outside of Boston) isn’t competing for the same talent as a V10.

Why does it matter? There is nothing special about working as an associate at the vast majority of V10 firms. What is so special about spending 3 years billing 2,500 at Kirkland/Skadden in order to lateral to Fenwick or Cooley?

As someone who works at a peer firm of the first group and works regularly with the latter, there is very clearly a difference in the level of training and expertise at these firms (at least in my practice). I enjoy the people at both firms but it ultimately turns into a bit of hand holding throughout the process and our juniors are usually working across from their mid levels on work streams. This isn’t even necessarily a lack of staffing, just a faster learning progression than at those other firms.

That being said, Kirkland is also atrocious in its own right in this area and is just as pleasurable as I can imagine them being in other more hostile practices combined with the incompetence of only being able to work off their own form (even if they don’t understand it).

As someone who worked at a peer firm of Fenwick/Cooley and regularly worked across from peers of the first group, I could say the same exact thing about my practice group and the inferior quality of the associates of first group. Fine people of course.

[Anonymous User]

I might be off here but…this whole post just made me really interested in Dovel & Luner…seems to be the clear winner here??

[Anonymous User]

Guys… is today the day?

[Anonymous User]

Why do people flock to Cooley? Is it because of the tech clients (for contacts to go in-house) or is it because it's COOL-ey?

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

I’ve seen many associates leave V10 to go to Cooley (and Fenwick). I haven’t seen many leave to go to Goodwin. As someone else mentioned before, Goodwin (outside of Boston) isn’t competing for the same talent as a V10.

Why does it matter? There is nothing special about working as an associate at the vast majority of V10 firms. What is so special about spending 3 years billing 2,500 at Kirkland/Skadden in order to lateral to Fenwick or Cooley?

As someone who works at a peer firm of the first group and works regularly with the latter, there is very clearly a difference in the level of training and expertise at these firms (at least in my practice). I enjoy the people at both firms but it ultimately turns into a bit of hand holding throughout the process and our juniors are usually working across from their mid levels on work streams. This isn’t even necessarily a lack of staffing, just a faster learning progression than at those other firms.

That being said, Kirkland is also atrocious in its own right in this area and is just as pleasurable as I can imagine them being in other more hostile practices combined with the incompetence of only being able to work off their own form (even if they don’t understand it).

As someone who came from a V10 and now works at a firm in the later group, I think this is ridiculous. I do the most handholding when working with some of the V10s because they are spread so damn thin that they can’t even keep up with what’s going on. They blow deadlines and send bad drafts minutes before checklist calls to save face with the client. The V10s just train jr associates a little faster because they brutalize them with more hours/deals, but there isn’t any different intellect swirling around at those firms… Also please tell your good friends up in their ivory towers to match the damn market salary already so I can get off this thread. Thx.

[2013]

Why do people flock to Cooley? Is it because of the tech clients (for contacts to go in-house) or is it because it's COOL-ey?

I think it’s because they let you list your hobbies on your profile.

[Anonymous User]

Why do people flock to Cooley? Is it because of the tech clients (for contacts to go in-house) or is it because it's COOL-ey?

I think it’s because they let you list your hobbies on your profile.

Real answer: They have cultivated a rep of working with cool tech companies (and adopting some of that culture along the way). https://www.cooley.com/services/industry/technology You go to Cooley to work with "the next big thing" getting its Series B funding vs. going to Skadden and servicing some petrochemical conglomerate. It also helps that they're obviously growing https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2021 ... 405-77124/

[Anonymous User]

Who's ready for another daily struggle session??

[Anonymous User]

Does DPW have a history of Friday announcements or is our only hope at this point that the other v10s have grown equally sick of waiting for them and will start sending out their matches?

[Anonymous User]

Hi gang, is it at all possible that the V10 firms would match the boutique firm starting salary of 235K? You will have to excuse me if the obvious answer is no. I am a 2L and not familiar with the history of compensation.

[NoLongerALurker]

Is this constant "todays the day" hopelessness what it felt like for Q followers?

[Anonymous User]

DPW associate told me hold onto your hat today... unclear how he would know. Def just messing w me

[Anonymous User]

Hi gang, is it at all possible that the V10 firms would match the boutique firm starting salary of 235K? You will have to excuse me if the obvious answer is no. I am a 2L and not familiar with the history of compensation.

Historically speaking, no. There will always be a handful of boutiques that have higher salaries, and the historic biglaw comp leaders (DPW, CSM, and Milbank included), and therefore the rest of biglaw don't really consider those for the market rate. Besides, that if a standard biglaw firms matched the "above market" boutiques, then I suspect those boutiques would just hike up their salaries again. Their whole point is to be "above market," and biglaw generally seems content to let them have that distinction.

[Anonymous User]

What is the best source to keep up with the raise news? ATL seems down bad... https://abovethelaw.com/2022/02/from-biglaw-to-poet/

[Anonymous User]

DPW associate told me hold onto your hat today... unclear how he would know. Def just messing w me

My hat is being held.

[cfcm]

It is quite windy today and if your hat blows away you won't have money to purchase another one.