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Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.

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Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:25 am
As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.
If you have fewer than two bedrooms at $3000/mo in Chicago you have made a mistake. Three even. Only folks I know that live in a one bed or studio at that price are Gold Coasters or people in River North by choice (which, to be fair, is reasonable for many juniors)

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Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.
Sassower is the big boss now right (especially given that Sprayregen is semi-retired)? I'm just curious given the extensive cross-staffing on deals I'd wonder if the group culture would have some elements of both offices. Do you think the power is shifting because more shit is getting filed in SDNY and nothing ever goes into NDIL? Or more firm structural stuff?

Anonymous User
Posts: 432633
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.

Interesting. Can you give examples? Like anything concrete (even if anecdotal)?

Anonymous User
Posts: 432633
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.
Sassower is the big boss now right (especially given that Sprayregen is semi-retired)? I'm just curious given the extensive cross-staffing on deals I'd wonder if the group culture would have some elements of both offices. Do you think the power is shifting because more shit is getting filed in SDNY and nothing ever goes into NDIL? Or more firm structural stuff?
Yep Sassower is boss and has consolidated power in the group totally at this point. Jurisdiction has nothing to do with it - nothing gets filed in SDNY either (by KE). It’s all Tx now and there’s no alternatives right now (also an active issue). Used to be Va as well but Ascena killed that.

Shift is purely logistical. Power in NY means more NY associates are favored and run cases more often. There’s definitely a blend but it’s shifting in favor of NY as the Chi elites get older (Nash, Husnick, etc). Chicago still has pull (and will probably get back eventually) it’s just that the balance of power has shifted basically.

The practical effects vary, from the basic sense of you now live on ET instead of CT in Chicago (enjoy your 730 AM internal calls), to subtle things like arbitrarily tighter deadlines. NY office is much more about “being seen” doing the work and working hard whereas Chicago was more about just getting it done. In my experience that led to a lot of hurry up and wait where the NY associate wanted to look good and do something with an all nighter when it could have been a three day project.

This is disputable of course but someone above asked that I provide something concrete even if anecdotal. Disclaimer that I have also departed the firm within the last 6 months so I am speaking from a biased lens, though I am speaking directly to things they influenced my decision to depart. I am also still very much plugged in to that group through former coworkers (fellow laterals and remainders alike.)

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Anonymous User
Posts: 432633
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.
Sassower is the big boss now right (especially given that Sprayregen is semi-retired)? I'm just curious given the extensive cross-staffing on deals I'd wonder if the group culture would have some elements of both offices. Do you think the power is shifting because more shit is getting filed in SDNY and nothing ever goes into NDIL? Or more firm structural stuff?
Yep Sassower is boss and has consolidated power in the group totally at this point. Jurisdiction has nothing to do with it - nothing gets filed in SDNY either (by KE). It’s all Tx now and there’s no alternatives right now (also an active issue). Used to be Va as well but Ascena killed that.
Kirkland filed two cases in SDNY, one in DE, and shit the bed by filing Aearo in Indiana (!!!) within the past three months

Anonymous User
Posts: 432633
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:13 pm
uncle_rico wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.
KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from
Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.
It’s actually a live issue in the Rx group. Power is shifting from Chi to NY right now and a lot of Chicago associates are not happy that the group culture is becoming more NY-like. They are different cultures and are distinctly different.
Sassower is the big boss now right (especially given that Sprayregen is semi-retired)? I'm just curious given the extensive cross-staffing on deals I'd wonder if the group culture would have some elements of both offices. Do you think the power is shifting because more shit is getting filed in SDNY and nothing ever goes into NDIL? Or more firm structural stuff?
Yep Sassower is boss and has consolidated power in the group totally at this point. Jurisdiction has nothing to do with it - nothing gets filed in SDNY either (by KE). It’s all Tx now and there’s no alternatives right now (also an active issue). Used to be Va as well but Ascena killed that.
Kirkland filed two cases in SDNY, one in DE, and shit the bed by filing Aearo in Indiana (!!!) within the past three months
Fair enough - I’m not in Bk anymore so didn’t know, but it’s not that KE literally never files there it’s just that they hate to do it. The internal line when I was there was definitely that SDNY is only the jurisdiction if there’s no better options. That’s because the judge selection is high risk. Can’t remember which judge is going as (Jones maybe?) but the firm has had some terrible experiences with drawing the wrong judge in NY.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:25 am
As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.
If you have fewer than two bedrooms at $3000/mo in Chicago you have made a mistake. Three even. Only folks I know that live in a one bed or studio at that price are Gold Coasters or people in River North by choice (which, to be fair, is reasonable for many juniors)
I feel bad for people who choose to live in River North.

Anonymous User
Posts: 432633
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:16 am

So is this a Kirkland megathread?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:16 am
So is this a Kirkland megathread?
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
always has been

barre777

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Re: Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread

Post by barre777 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:56 pm

Would anyone like specific examples of weirdness at BigLaw?

Let me elaborate about a guy (Smith) I knew as an undergrad who went on to BigLaw. Smith and his buddy were in a dorm room. 2 girls from another school came over. They were clowning around and throwing hard marble backgammon chips at each other. The chip that Smith threw broke the girl's front tooth.

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