NY to 200k?! Forum

[TUwave]

Have any non-NY firms matched yet?

Boston firm Mintz Levin randomly matched with the quickness.

[Anonymous User]

Have any non-NY firms matched yet?

Boston firm Mintz Levin randomly matched with the quickness.

They’re rarely a first mover or anything close. It’s possible they had a partner meeting that aligned with this announcement. I also work at a firm where we get lots of Mintz lateral applications. General sense is they cheap out on comp for seniors and then don’t really offer them advancement. So maybe just important to keep associates from fleeing

[Anonymous User]

I imagine a lot of the “top firms” who can easily afford this bump might hold off for a bit to see if anyone (DPW/Cravath?) comes in over the top before they match..

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to get a tracking spreadsheet going at this point?

Also, are any midlevels out there really swayed by a few hundred dollars extra per month?

The burnout and nyc fatigue are real. I’d be much more inclined to stay a couple years with remote working and some more vacation time. This BS would be a little more sustainable from a Tennessee or Florida v. throwing on a suit every morning and an hour commute with people using the subway as their bathroom everyday.

Please don’t get mad at me NYC diehards – just my personal opinion.

[Anonymous User]

I imagine a lot of the “top firms” who can easily afford this bump might hold off for a bit to see if anyone (DPW/Cravath?) comes in over the top before they match..

Last time around Cravath waited a full week to raise the "Milbank Scale" raises. I would guess it'll be similar this time around and one of Cravath/STB/DPW will then make a 'final' move that the remainder of the industry will follow. Let's hope that move beats the current Milbank scale

[Bosque]

I'm putting my cards on the table: I think one of DPW/Cravath/STB will come in over the top of Milbank, abeit only slighty (maybe a 200/210/235/270/300/325/345/360 scale).

I would like to cosign this. I didn't see this coming with the special bonuses, but 15K at the high end and 10K at the low end definitely leaves some room for upward expansion, considering the retention problem is midlevels.

[Lesion of Doom]

All of that cuts into the Yacht fund, which is why none of the super rich have any incentive to raise compensation over the market.

I agree with this. But why would Milbank folks make this move? They know everyone they compete with will match, so they don’t get any recruiting traction. I’m genuinely curious.

I think retention is a primary driver behind it. It's not like graduates have a bunch of 150k non-biglaw jobs nipping at the industry's heels, and if Milbank saw the raise as inevitable they decided to be first again. It's a great branding strategy: If you're going to do it anyway, might as well be first.

I wonder if a single associate was retained with the raise. Do a few hundred after-tax dollars a month move the needle for an associate looking to jump ship? Obviously that's real money for real people, but for the associates that are gunning for partner, or those that are already eyeing the exit, or those that are sticking it out just long enough to pay off SoFi, isn't everyone just shrugging their shoulders at this?

I'm not shrugging at it but agree that it won't solve the attrition issue. The problem is that law firm partners believe that any improvement in associates' working conditions necessarily entails diminished client services, leading to less money in their own pockets. That's why comp increases are the only arrow in the quiver. Unless that changes, churn and burn will remain the rule.

[ithrowds]

I'm putting my cards on the table: I think one of DPW/Cravath/STB will come in over the top of Milbank, abeit only slighty (maybe a 200/210/235/270/300/325/345/360 scale).

I would like to cosign this. I didn't see this coming with the special bonuses, but 15K at the high end and 10K at the low end definitely leaves some room for upward expansion, considering the retention problem is midlevels.

Agree, feel like this would be super easy for top performing firms to bump up by another 10-20k at the mid level-senior levels

[Anonymous User]

All of that cuts into the Yacht fund, which is why none of the super rich have any incentive to raise compensation over the market.

I agree with this. But why would Milbank folks make this move? They know everyone they compete with will match, so they don’t get any recruiting traction. I’m genuinely curious.

I think retention is a primary driver behind it. It's not like graduates have a bunch of 150k non-biglaw jobs nipping at the industry's heels, and if Milbank saw the raise as inevitable they decided to be first again. It's a great branding strategy: If you're going to do it anyway, might as well be first.

I wonder if a single associate was retained with the raise. Do a few hundred after-tax dollars a month move the needle for an associate looking to jump ship? Obviously that's real money for real people, but for the associates that are gunning for partner, or those that are already eyeing the exit, or those that are sticking it out just long enough to pay off SoFi, isn't everyone just shrugging their shoulders at this?

I'm not shrugging at it but agree that it won't solve the attrition issue. The problem is that law firm partners believe that any improvement in associates' working conditions necessarily entails diminished client services, leading to less money in their own pockets. That's why comp increases are the only arrow in the quiver. Unless that changes, churn and burn will remain the rule.

I think one things firms should invest in are the special bonuses we've seen at DPW I believe that are items rather than money. For whatever reason psychologically, I would get a lot more excited about a month of free meals than the cash equivilant even though logically I know that latter is better.

[Anonymous User]

All of that cuts into the Yacht fund, which is why none of the super rich have any incentive to raise compensation over the market.

I agree with this. But why would Milbank folks make this move? They know everyone they compete with will match, so they don’t get any recruiting traction. I’m genuinely curious.

I think retention is a primary driver behind it. It's not like graduates have a bunch of 150k non-biglaw jobs nipping at the industry's heels, and if Milbank saw the raise as inevitable they decided to be first again. It's a great branding strategy: If you're going to do it anyway, might as well be first.

I wonder if a single associate was retained with the raise. Do a few hundred after-tax dollars a month move the needle for an associate looking to jump ship? Obviously that's real money for real people, but for the associates that are gunning for partner, or those that are already eyeing the exit, or those that are sticking it out just long enough to pay off SoFi, isn't everyone just shrugging their shoulders at this?

I'm not shrugging at it but agree that it won't solve the attrition issue. The problem is that law firm partners believe that any improvement in associates' working conditions necessarily entails diminished client services, leading to less money in their own pockets. That's why comp increases are the only arrow in the quiver. Unless that changes, churn and burn will remain the rule.

I think one things firms should invest in are the special bonuses we've seen at DPW I believe that are items rather than money. For whatever reason psychologically, I would get a lot more excited about a month of free meals than the cash equivilant even though logically I know that latter is better.

^Cravath partner floating a trial balloon

[nixy]

But people have all kinds of varying opinions about what things are valuable. With cash everyone can buy their own things.

[Anonymous User]

With Mintz and Cadwalader moving super early, this seems likely to be the opening salvo to at least one more move. Firms interested in elevating their prestige and looking for the spotlight could consider an additional bump.

[Bosque]

All of that cuts into the Yacht fund, which is why none of the super rich have any incentive to raise compensation over the market.

I agree with this. But why would Milbank folks make this move? They know everyone they compete with will match, so they don’t get any recruiting traction. I’m genuinely curious.

I think retention is a primary driver behind it. It's not like graduates have a bunch of 150k non-biglaw jobs nipping at the industry's heels, and if Milbank saw the raise as inevitable they decided to be first again. It's a great branding strategy: If you're going to do it anyway, might as well be first.

I wonder if a single associate was retained with the raise. Do a few hundred after-tax dollars a month move the needle for an associate looking to jump ship? Obviously that's real money for real people, but for the associates that are gunning for partner, or those that are already eyeing the exit, or those that are sticking it out just long enough to pay off SoFi, isn't everyone just shrugging their shoulders at this?

I'm not shrugging at it but agree that it won't solve the attrition issue. The problem is that law firm partners believe that any improvement in associates' working conditions necessarily entails diminished client services, leading to less money in their own pockets. That's why comp increases are the only arrow in the quiver. Unless that changes, churn and burn will remain the rule.

I think one things firms should invest in are the special bonuses we've seen at DPW I believe that are items rather than money. For whatever reason psychologically, I would get a lot more excited about a month of free meals than the cash equivilant even though logically I know that latter is better.

^Cravath partner floating a trial balloon

I absolutely love free meals and will do a lot, even an illogical a lot, to get one. But if you offered me free lunch for a month or $500, I am taking the $500.

[Blackjack45]

Do firm's just pro-rate raises for the the remainder of the year (similar to calculating a summer associate's salary)? Would be nice if they trued us up to our full class year salary by the end of 2021. How did firm's handle in 2018?

In 2018 Milbank had the first round of raises. A couple days later Simpson matched and announced a 'special summer bonus' that, for juniors, effectively trued up that salary to the full year. For mid levels and seniors it was even more of a bonus (up to 25k). I personally don't see that happening this time around since we have multiple bonuses floating around this year already, but that's just my opinion. If anything, maybe baked into year-end bonus?

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why any sane person would go to Cravath over some other prestigious law firm. At Cravath, the only guarantee is that you will get worked to death, and will never make a penny more than market. Other firms might have a marginally less shitty lifestyle and you might also get nice little bits of extra $$ every once in awhile depending on where you are at.

Also I dunno how good their deal people are, but the litigators I have worked with/across from are mediocre at best (it's no longer true that you're going to be learning from the greatest, if it ever was).

Disagree with this. Cravath is a big name - S&C or Skadden are great, but don't have the punch of Cravath on the resume. Also, I doubt Cravath is working you any harder than a churn 'n burn like K&E. Moreover, if things happen to be slow at a place like Cravath, you can just kind of chill and not be worried in the slightest about your job security. If corporate slows down at K&E, managing partner sends out a firmwide email telling corporate associates to start jumping on bankruptcy cases or get canned.

[Bear2019]

Fenwick matched according to non equity partner.

[cisscum]

Milbank associates, your firm (and project finance and whatever other shit practice areas you focus on) will never be prestigious. Never forget that.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why any sane person would go to Cravath over some other prestigious law firm. At Cravath, the only guarantee is that you will get worked to death, and will never make a penny more than market. Other firms might have a marginally less shitty lifestyle and you might also get nice little bits of extra $$ every once in awhile depending on where you are at.

Also I dunno how good their deal people are, but the litigators I have worked with/across from are mediocre at best (it's no longer true that you're going to be learning from the greatest, if it ever was).

Disagree with this. Cravath is a big name - S&C or Skadden are great, but don't have the punch of Cravath on the resume. Also, I doubt Cravath is working you any harder than a churn 'n burn like K&E. Moreover, if things happen to be slow at a place like Cravath, you can just kind of chill and not be worried in the slightest about your job security. If corporate slows down at K&E, managing partner sends out a firmwide email telling corporate associates to start jumping on bankruptcy cases or get canned.

Cravath is in no way more prestigious than S&C, Skadden, or DPW.

[Anonymous User]

DPW just beat the scale. Details to follow. This is not a drill!

[Anonymous User]

DPW just raised to 205.

[Anonymous User]

DPW just raised to 205.

Confirmed.

202.5
205
215
240
275
305
330
350
365

[Anonymous User]

Winston match.

[TigerIsBack]

DPW just raised to 205.

Confirmed.

202.5
205
215
240
275
305
330
350
365

Poor class of 2017 only getting a $5k bump from Milbank while the surrounding classes of 2018 and 2016 get $10k above Milbank.

[Anonymous User]

DPW just raised to 205.

Confirmed.

202.5
205
215
240
275
305
330
350
365

Poor class of 2017 only getting a $5k bump from Milbank while the surrounding classes of 2018 and 2016 get $10k above Milbank.

Lol what's funnier is the 202.5...why...why not just 205, 210, 220, 240...

[Anonymous User]

Cravath,

It's time for you to reassert yourself. NY to 210k pls.