Tracking COVID-19's effect on V100 associate pay/layoffs Forum

[cavalier1138]

on stealth layoffs, i know firsthand that this is happening allready including at firms that announced they wont be cutting salaries, furlowing etc, but am/was at a non-vault 100 (amlaw 200).

heard secondhand about morisson and forestor doing this in the past month.

any1 else?

How can you have firsthand information about multiple firms?

[Anonymous User]

Nixon Peabody already laid off associates and is now cutting associate pay by 10%, cancelling summer program and deferring incoming associates.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

[Anonymous User]

Can confirm stealth layoffs are occurring at certain firms publicly claiming no cuts/layoffs (not talking about Goodwin). There’s a reason you’re unlikely to hear about some of them. Nothing anyone can do about it and no use unnecessarily stressing about it, but mentioning lest associates get complacent based on management’s assurances.

Excuse the preachiness, but it should also be a caution to the associate stans constantly (and irrationally) praising/defending their firms on TLS as if they were equity partners. Commendable to show passion, but they won’t hesitate to cut you when it suits their purposes. It’s just business. Until you have equity, it’s just another highly-paid job, really. Hell even some equity-partners aren’t immune. Take care of yourself, put your well-being first and always look out for yourself in good times. Good luck to everyone. If it’s any consolation, this will pass, and some associates thinking this is the end of the world will end up better for it.

[Wild Card]

Can confirm stealth layoffs are occurring at certain firms publicly claiming no cuts/layoffs (not talking about Goodwin). There’s a reason you’re unlikely to hear about some of them.

I think it's also because stealthed associates get severance and website time, so if one wanted to investigate, one wouldn't see shrinkage in a firm's associate ranks until 2 or 3 months from now.

I urge you and the Goodwin associates to tell ATL about this, though. They may have fallen far from grace, but they're still our only gossip rag.

[180 GET]

[cavalier1138]

Can confirm stealth layoffs are occurring at certain firms publicly claiming no cuts/layoffs (not talking about Goodwin). There’s a reason you’re unlikely to hear about some of them. Nothing anyone can do about it and no use unnecessarily stressing about it, but mentioning lest associates get complacent based on management’s assurances.

What is the benefit of making vague statements like this?

If stealth layoffs are happening, then at least name the firms. Otherwise you're just making people unnecessarily paranoid during an already stressful period.

[Anonymous User]

There are agreements that bar disparagement etc. The vagueness is intentional.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

I'm sorry to hear this. Hope you're still holding on. Which office? Anon bc incoming SA.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

[QContinuum]

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

The definition of a "stealth layoff" is a layoff that the firm purports is due to performance, but is in fact due to the economy.

How can we know whether a layoff is a "stealth layoff" or a genuine performance-based firing? Easy. If a firm usually pushes, say, 5-15% of its fourth-year associates out for poor performance, but this year they've pushed out 30% of their fourth-years for "poor performance", it doesn't take an expert detective to deduce that the real cause of the layoffs is the economy, and thus "stealth layoffs" are going on*.

*The percentages above are completely made up to illustrate my example, and are not intended to reflect what's currently happening at Goodwin or any other firm.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

What office?

[cavalier1138]

There are agreements that bar disparagement etc. The vagueness is intentional.

Agreements with firms you don't work for?

I get people who are actually going through this not being able to talk about specifics. But that's not what some people in this thread are claiming to be doing.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

What office?

I can verify that this is happening in Boston, and for people that have not previously been dinged in performance reviews as a mid-level/early senior associate.

[Yugihoe]

Sorry to hear about all this and agree that stealth layoff news should make it's way to ATL. I get why associates experiencing it wouldn't want to share details though. Also, 3 months of severance and/or website time is definitely better than the deals I see at some firms to take 30% pay for a 6 month sabbatical (which likely would result in no job at the end of the 6 months anyway AND ends up with less pay).

[strawberrieee]

Sorry to hear about all this and agree that stealth layoff news should make it's way to ATL. I get why associates experiencing it wouldn't want to share details though. Also, 3 months of severance and/or website time is definitely better than the deals I see at some firms to take 30% pay for a 6 month sabbatical (which likely would result in no job at the end of the 6 months anyway AND ends up with less pay).

But 6 months of website time are better than 3 months of website time. You lose 1.2x monthly salary but have 3 more months to apply for new jobs. There is a chance that (1) things get better at the end of 6 months and you may still keep your job, or (2) even if you get laid off at the end of your sabbatical, firms may offer some severance and more website time. Unless I miss anything, I don't see the 3 months of severance and/or website time is "definitely better."

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

What office?

I can verify that this is happening in Boston, and for people that have not previously been dinged in performance reviews as a mid-level/early senior associate.

Also happening in New York. Makes a lot more sense why Goodwin moved to an unlimited vacation policy in January - they don't have to payout vacation days for the people they stealthed.

[QContinuum]

Updated with Pillsbury (V62) - 20% cut for associates.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

What office?

I can verify that this is happening in Boston, and for people that have not previously been dinged in performance reviews as a mid-level/early senior associate.

Also happening in New York. Makes a lot more sense why Goodwin moved to an unlimited vacation policy in January - they don't have to payout vacation days for the people they stealthed.

Anon who asked which office. Thanks for your responses and I hope things get better for everyone involved. Were juniors stealthed too? Should I be worried as an incoming SA? ...

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin Procter (V37) is doing stealth layoffs. 3 months for affected people to quit or move on, and being done for "performance" reasons. In my corporate practice group, can anecdotally say about 15% of associates affected but not sure how widespread it is across the firm and practice groups.

Can also confirm that Goodwin is doing stealth layoffs. Looking like ~25-30% of associates in my corporate group.

Wow either my group at Goodwin either got lucky or I'm just out of touch... probably the latter. I thought it was associated with mid-year reviews, which are usually reserved for laterals or people with performance issues? Was this not the case?

What office?

I can verify that this is happening in Boston, and for people that have not previously been dinged in performance reviews as a mid-level/early senior associate.

Also happening in New York. Makes a lot more sense why Goodwin moved to an unlimited vacation policy in January - they don't have to payout vacation days for the people they stealthed.

Anon who asked which office. Thanks for your responses and I hope things get better for everyone involved. Were juniors stealthed too? Should I be worried as an incoming SA? ...

Looks like GP was the first v50 doing stealth layoff? Probably won't affect incoming SA I guess, since it would be very hard to evaluate the performance online. But it's definitely bad news for class of 2023. They probably won't hire many SAs in the 2021 OCI.

[Transaction Lawyer]

This is obviously something to worry about if you’re an incoming SA at Goodwin.

They just laid off some experienced attorneys who frankly (all in) aren’t that much more expensive than a first year associate and much more valuable.

There is only so much money to go around and if the numbers aren’t adding up and Goodwin’s management runs out of more popular options — they will either: (i) not hire all of the summer associates; (ii) give cold offers and/or (iii) hire everybody or some of the summary associates knowing that if billable work doesn’t improve that they’ll have to fire a number of the first years early on (if you accept a cold offer - you’ll likely be fired regardless around then too).

Not hiring the summer associates is not a popular decision but anything is possible when (x) partners aren’t getting paid, (y) star associates are taking 20 percent pay cuts and (z) firms are being forced to lay-off a significant amount of their employees.

[QContinuum]

anything is possible when (x) partners aren’t getting paid, (y) star associates are taking 20 percent pay cuts and (z) firms are being forced to lay-off a significant amount of their employees.

Is Goodwin implementing associate paycuts? I don't think that was previously stated by anyone.

Also: updated with the alleged news of Shearman laying off associates who failed to win the H1B lottery.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin has specifically told associates it is not planning on a salary reduction at this time (though also says it's keeping all options on table). Partners have been touting the lack of debt and October-September fiscal year as shielding the firm from the downturn somewhat. The firm is also generally cheap and supposedly has solid cash reserves as a result...

[Anonymous User]

This is obviously something to worry about if you’re an incoming SA at Goodwin.

They just laid off some experienced attorneys who frankly (all in) aren’t that much more expensive than a first year associate and much more valuable.

There is only so much money to go around and if the numbers aren’t adding up and Goodwin’s management runs out of more popular options — they will either: (i) not hire all of the summer associates; (ii) give cold offers and/or (iii) hire everybody or some of the summary associates knowing that if billable work doesn’t improve that they’ll have to fire a number of the first years early on (if you accept a cold offer - you’ll likely be fired regardless around then too).

Not hiring the summer associates is not a popular decision but anything is possible when (x) partners aren’t getting paid, (y) star associates are taking 20 percent pay cuts and (z) firms are being forced to lay-off a significant amount of their employees.

Exactly what I was worried about. Thank you for your candid response. Guess I'll go see what's up in the vale.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan Lovells cutting associate pay by 10%. 15% for attorneys above $400k. Equity partner draws reduced 15-25%. The email says they still expect to pay bonuses but can’t confirm that or what the amount will be.

[wwwcol]

Hogan Lovells cutting associate pay by 10%. 15% for attorneys above $400k. Equity partner draws reduced 15-25%. The email says they still expect to pay bonuses but can’t confirm that or what the amount will be.

Surprised it took so long for this news to hit the market. A bunch more bad news from big names about to drop this week too