COVID-19’s effect on your practice check in Forum

[trebekismyhero]

It would probably be nice to hear from those on the business side of things. Just because you're still working as much or billing as many hours doesn't mean those hours are getting paid out. You also can't be sure what workflow will look like in a month, but there are people with a much better understanding of that. A lack of transparency can add stress to an already stressful situation.

In-house, very busy because we have been asked to cut back outside counsel whether in work or billing. I am guessing that a lot of clients are asking for bills to be cut, even if they're still in business because of uncertainty, slow-down in sales, and because they can.

[Anonymous User]

Bankruptcy midlevel

We've already been very busy given state of retail and energy industries. Have heard a lot of talk about how extra busy we are going to be, but haven't seen it yet. Will see how it all plays out, but think lenders are a little hesitant to push companies into bankruptcy given the circumstances.

Still very fluid, but think we might see a lot of forbearances in the near term (at least I can hope).

Do you think incoming first years going into bankruptcy/restructuring can reasonably plan on their offers being secure?

[Anonymous User]

Same anon quoted above.

Things have been insanely busy. These are obviously unprecedented times, but, yea, restructuring associates are probably some of the best situated for this.

[PartiallyLearnedHand]

Does anyone have any insight on how this is affecting international trade practices? Can be anything from dumping/countervailing duties to export controls. Just interested to see if there have been any significant slowdowns and if any are expected, or will int'l trade be one of the less impacted practices.

[Anonymous User]

EBEC associate again:

Extremely busy, with seemingly no end in sight. All work has pretty much shifted to counseling and compliance (mostly companies restructuring equity/incentive comp structures, severance issues, 401(k) matching contribution issues) and dealing with all of the coronavirus legislation and implementation.

Surprised my firm isn’t hiring more associates into the practice given that the work will still be there when all of this is later reversed.

I am joining this practice area post-graduation. Not sure about deferred start date. But can you elaborate on how these months compare to others, hours-wise? Do you work on employment agreements? Separation agreements? Any DD on deals? Can you describe your firm's practice group size? Usual hours? ty for the post and update!

This will depend heavily on your type of practice. There are three types:

Broad-based groups (think Proskauer, MLB, McDermott, and the main tax/benefits boutiques, etc.).

Essentially deal-only / ERISA for funds (most other traditional biglaw because most clients aren’t willing to pay $600-1500/hr for 401(k) and ACA compliance).

Heavy compliance (the smaller boutique firms; smaller biglaw firms that aren’t really as deal-based, mostly due to the fact that clients are willing to pay these amounts).

I work in a broad-based group, so I do some work on executive employment agreements (mostly the deferred comp/equity clauses of the C-suite agreement), severance agreements, and DD for deals. A larger part of my practice is Title I, though.

My firm has around 10-15 benefits/comp attorneys. Other attorneys do some benefits-related work (tax), but the core group is 10-15.

My billable hours last year were around 1950. That’s probably higher than most non-deal oriented practices. But I know friends in other firms who billed 2200+ hours in similar practices. If you’re going to a firm that’s heavily compliance-based, your hours may be better and you will probably have more control over your hours. The opposite is probably true if you end up at a huge deal-oriented practice (some firms actually have the practice as a corporate specialty group).

The past few months, I’m on track for 2300+ hours. On top of that, I’ve had to do a lot of extra work to prepare for presentations and talks on coronavirus, which added a significant number of hours (30+) this month.

So if your firm is mostly deal centered (think v10) exec comp, would you say the practice is still very busy??

[Anonymous User]

I've been asked to price and look into possibly packaging these PPP (Paycheck Protection Program) loans.

I know they are already pulling people to actually process the applications and some leaders view this as a cheap PR opportunity and a way to keep customers they might otherwise lose. Nobody is even talking about the lawyer side of things yet... and I don't even know what kind of law this is, cap markets maybe? L/E maybe?

It's a clusterfuck. They are just going to hand out the loans and the typical checks in commercial lending aren't really being implemented and are almost actively ignored.

But there will be work.

[Anonymous User]

Healthcare lawyer. Mostly deal work, but also pretty hefty regulatory and clinical trial practice. On track to bill the most I ever have in a month.

Everything is on fire. Mostly COVID-19 related work with all the regs. and waivers coming out from CMS and executive orders, but expect pick-up of provider and outpatient deals after market stabilizes and elective procedures can be safely done again. Lots of under capitalized practices that will be gobbled up by the larger players.

As long as the govt. is paying for healthcare, we have something to do and grateful for that.

[Anonymous User]

Healthcare lawyer. Mostly deal work, but also pretty hefty regulatory and clinical trial practice. On track to bill the most I ever have in a month.

Everything is on fire. Mostly COVID-19 related work with all the regs. and waivers coming out from CMS and executive orders, but expect pick-up of provider and outpatient deals after market stabilizes and elective procedures can be safely done again. Lots of under capitalized practices that will be gobbled up by the larger players.

As long as the govt. is paying for healthcare, we have something to do and grateful for that.

I am an incoming associate at a V100 firm trying to break into the health care practice group (I ranked it first and I haven't been placed yet, but I think this is the last thing on the firm's mind). Do you think that health care groups are likely to be amenable to taking on additional associates given the uptick in health care work? The firm's health care group is primarily transactions and regulatory counseling.

[Anonymous User]

Healthcare lawyer. Mostly deal work, but also pretty hefty regulatory and clinical trial practice. On track to bill the most I ever have in a month.

Everything is on fire. Mostly COVID-19 related work with all the regs. and waivers coming out from CMS and executive orders, but expect pick-up of provider and outpatient deals after market stabilizes and elective procedures can be safely done again. Lots of under capitalized practices that will be gobbled up by the larger players.

As long as the govt. is paying for healthcare, we have something to do and grateful for that.

I am an incoming associate at a V100 firm trying to break into the health care practice group (I ranked it first and I haven't been placed yet, but I think this is the last thing on the firm's mind). Do you think that health care groups are likely to be amenable to taking on additional associates given the uptick in health care work? The firm's health care group is primarily transactions and regulatory counseling.

I am not sure how large the health care practice group is at your firm, but if they have a larger group and have institutional clients (particularly health systems), I could definitely see them taking on additional associates, though it might look different for you as a first year in that you will be doing primarily regulatory counseling and not deal work. Large deals are still trying to close, but your smaller run-of-the-mill deals are mostly pencils down and will probably be for a bit. Even though I love transactional work more, regulatory is what makes you good at running a health care deal and it makes you more valuable if you decide to do something else later. I hope you get placed in the group! Being a healthcare lawyer is really interesting and the job security (and future in-house opportunities) does not hurt.

[Anonymous User]

Healthcare lawyer. Mostly deal work, but also pretty hefty regulatory and clinical trial practice. On track to bill the most I ever have in a month.

Everything is on fire. Mostly COVID-19 related work with all the regs. and waivers coming out from CMS and executive orders, but expect pick-up of provider and outpatient deals after market stabilizes and elective procedures can be safely done again. Lots of under capitalized practices that will be gobbled up by the larger players.

As long as the govt. is paying for healthcare, we have something to do and grateful for that.

I am an incoming associate at a V100 firm trying to break into the health care practice group (I ranked it first and I haven't been placed yet, but I think this is the last thing on the firm's mind). Do you think that health care groups are likely to be amenable to taking on additional associates given the uptick in health care work? The firm's health care group is primarily transactions and regulatory counseling.

I am not sure how large the health care practice group is at your firm, but if they have a larger group and have institutional clients (particularly health systems), I could definitely see them taking on additional associates, though it might look different for you as a first year in that you will be doing primarily regulatory counseling and not deal work. Large deals are still trying to close, but your smaller run-of-the-mill deals are mostly pencils down and will probably be for a bit. Even though I love transactional work more, regulatory is what makes you good at running a health care deal and it makes you more valuable if you decide to do something else later. I hope you get placed in the group! Being a healthcare lawyer is really interesting and the job security (and future in-house opportunities) does not hurt.

Thank you so much for your response! The health care group is sizable at my firm, but it does not swallow the office. I honestly prefer regulatory counseling anyway (I've devoted my last two years in law school to learning about health care regulation). Thank you for the well wishes! Good luck during this crazy time!

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone comment on the status of emerging company/venture capital work? Thanks.

Associate at an SV biglaw firm that mostly does EC/VC. No big difference yet as our tech company clients are weathering this pretty well and were set up to remote work anyways. We’re actually dealing with a rush of work due to SBA related counseling, but that’s probably short term.

Thanks - that's very helpful to hear. As far as you're aware, is that the case across most bigger name EC/VC biglaw firms, in SV and in other cities?

Can’t speak to other cities, but my peers at Fenwick SV and Gunderson SV seem to be in the same boat. The SBA work has slowed a little bit since VC backed companies are starting to reconsider the implications of taking SBA loans, but we’re all still busy doing financings and M&A, and our tech transactions associates are crazy busy helping clients renegotiate their agreements.

[LBJ's Hair]

Can anyone comment on the status of emerging company/venture capital work? Thanks.

Associate at an SV biglaw firm that mostly does EC/VC. No big difference yet as our tech company clients are weathering this pretty well and were set up to remote work anyways. We’re actually dealing with a rush of work due to SBA related counseling, but that’s probably short term.

Thanks - that's very helpful to hear. As far as you're aware, is that the case across most bigger name EC/VC biglaw firms, in SV and in other cities?

Can’t speak to other cities, but my peers at Fenwick SV and Gunderson SV seem to be in the same boat. The SBA work has slowed a little bit since VC backed companies are starting to reconsider the implications of taking SBA loans, but we’re all still busy doing financings and M&A, and our tech transactions associates are crazy busy helping clients renegotiate their agreements.

Curious what M&A work is being done. Is this stuff for deals that have already announced? Impressionistically, friends in finance on the tech side have been pretty dead, outside of revolver draw-downs and the like.

[Anonymous User]

Junior litigation partner - never remember where we're ranked (since that stuff never matters outside of TLS/ATL) but at least in the top 20-30 of AmLaw. We are insanely busy and in my office, feeling understaffed both in terms of covering existing work and new successful pitches coming in the door. No layoffs, furloughs, cuts to partner draws, or salary reductions for associates/counsel. It almost feels like there is a surreal disconnect between what we're reading on ATL/the news vs. the reality of our practice - where I can't seem to get an hour off on a weekend day to go for a socially distanced walk with a friend. I recognize it's a good problem to have at the time - but as someone who lived through the '09 recession as a litigator - this still feels truly surreal, because my prior firm I was at then (also in the top 20-30 of AmLaw) certainly encountered slowdowns that year and did layoffs/deferrals. And while a good problem, the grind of grinding all the time feels harder when most of the normal self-care steps are not available. Thinking of everyone out there who has the opposite problem and is feeling anxious about it. This is a difficult time all around.

[Anonymous User]

Could anyone speak to how this affecting lit boutiques, like Susman or Molo? It seems P-side work won't dry up, although trials (and thus big verdicts) could be delayed for months. But at the same time, because these shops are smaller, could they face cash-on-hand issues?

[axel.foley]

Junior litigation partner - never remember where we're ranked (since that stuff never matters outside of TLS/ATL) but at least in the top 20-30 of AmLaw. We are insanely busy and in my office, feeling understaffed both in terms of covering existing work and new successful pitches coming in the door. No layoffs, furloughs, cuts to partner draws, or salary reductions for associates/counsel. It almost feels like there is a surreal disconnect between what we're reading on ATL/the news vs. the reality of our practice - where I can't seem to get an hour off on a weekend day to go for a socially distanced walk with a friend. I recognize it's a good problem to have at the time - but as someone who lived through the '09 recession as a litigator - this still feels truly surreal, because my prior firm I was at then (also in the top 20-30 of AmLaw) certainly encountered slowdowns that year and did layoffs/deferrals. And while a good problem, the grind of grinding all the time feels harder when most of the normal self-care steps are not available. Thinking of everyone out there who has the opposite problem and is feeling anxious about it. This is a difficult time all around.

This is very helpful, thank you. And I can imagine how the lack of free time and self care could be especially problematic these days. Hang in there.

[objctnyrhnr]

Junior litigation partner - never remember where we're ranked (since that stuff never matters outside of TLS/ATL) but at least in the top 20-30 of AmLaw. We are insanely busy and in my office, feeling understaffed both in terms of covering existing work and new successful pitches coming in the door. No layoffs, furloughs, cuts to partner draws, or salary reductions for associates/counsel. It almost feels like there is a surreal disconnect between what we're reading on ATL/the news vs. the reality of our practice - where I can't seem to get an hour off on a weekend day to go for a socially distanced walk with a friend. I recognize it's a good problem to have at the time - but as someone who lived through the '09 recession as a litigator - this still feels truly surreal, because my prior firm I was at then (also in the top 20-30 of AmLaw) certainly encountered slowdowns that year and did layoffs/deferrals. And while a good problem, the grind of grinding all the time feels harder when most of the normal self-care steps are not available. Thinking of everyone out there who has the opposite problem and is feeling anxious about it. This is a difficult time all around.

Can you provide any other details Re size of your market or nature of cases?

[Ultramar vistas]

Junior litigation partner - never remember where we're ranked (since that stuff never matters outside of TLS/ATL) but at least in the top 20-30 of AmLaw. We are insanely busy and in my office, feeling understaffed both in terms of covering existing work and new successful pitches coming in the door. No layoffs, furloughs, cuts to partner draws, or salary reductions for associates/counsel. It almost feels like there is a surreal disconnect between what we're reading on ATL/the news vs. the reality of our practice - where I can't seem to get an hour off on a weekend day to go for a socially distanced walk with a friend. I recognize it's a good problem to have at the time - but as someone who lived through the '09 recession as a litigator - this still feels truly surreal, because my prior firm I was at then (also in the top 20-30 of AmLaw) certainly encountered slowdowns that year and did layoffs/deferrals. And while a good problem, the grind of grinding all the time feels harder when most of the normal self-care steps are not available. Thinking of everyone out there who has the opposite problem and is feeling anxious about it. This is a difficult time all around.

Think folks have to remember that although the speed with which news and the market moves seems to have accelerated even since 2008, in reality we are in the beginning stages of whatever this recession is shaping up to be. The 2008 market crash really impacted the classes of ‘09 and ‘10, and the true slowdown was in the doldrums of 2009 where all of the immediate crash related work had dried up and clients had really contracted their budgets hard.

Hopefully this is a less stretched out experience, but even though I’m currently staffed up on bankruptcies and have 3 or 4 lingering deals from pre-crash times, nothing new that is “normal” has come in for a while, so I see it being a slow Q3 and Q4 outside of restructuring work.

[Anonymous User]

MBS person.

Origination (my team) is basically dead. Monitoring is really busy doing due diligence but nobody seems to know what's going on.

I am angling to get work with the restructuring teams. Apparently they EXPECT to be busy but aren't yet. My firm's restructuring teams actually started the ball rolling on hiring MORE than usual. But they have since slowed down as it becomes increasingly difficult to gauge when the actual deals will happen.

[albanach]

In-house healthcare. There's some stuff going on. You might have noticed it on the news.

[lawhawk1836]

How busy do we think international arbitration practice will be in the coming months/year?

[nealric]

I just found out this morning that one of the partners I worked with closely when I was in private practice passed away from COVID-19. He was a really good guy, and I owe a lot to him for helping me get off the ground as a baby lawyer. It was a stark reminder that the impacts of this thing go a lot deeper than just lost revenue.

[Anonymous User]

EBEC associate again:

Extremely busy, with seemingly no end in sight. All work has pretty much shifted to counseling and compliance (mostly companies restructuring equity/incentive comp structures, severance issues, 401(k) matching contribution issues) and dealing with all of the coronavirus legislation and implementation.

Surprised my firm isn’t hiring more associates into the practice given that the work will still be there when all of this is later reversed.

I am joining this practice area post-graduation. Not sure about deferred start date. But can you elaborate on how these months compare to others, hours-wise? Do you work on employment agreements? Separation agreements? Any DD on deals? Can you describe your firm's practice group size? Usual hours? ty for the post and update!

This will depend heavily on your type of practice. There are three types:

Broad-based groups (think Proskauer, MLB, McDermott, and the main tax/benefits boutiques, etc.).

Essentially deal-only / ERISA for funds (most other traditional biglaw because most clients aren’t willing to pay $600-1500/hr for 401(k) and ACA compliance).

Heavy compliance (the smaller boutique firms; smaller biglaw firms that aren’t really as deal-based, mostly due to the fact that clients are willing to pay these amounts).

I work in a broad-based group, so I do some work on executive employment agreements (mostly the deferred comp/equity clauses of the C-suite agreement), severance agreements, and DD for deals. A larger part of my practice is Title I, though.

My firm has around 10-15 benefits/comp attorneys. Other attorneys do some benefits-related work (tax), but the core group is 10-15.

My billable hours last year were around 1950. That’s probably higher than most non-deal oriented practices. But I know friends in other firms who billed 2200+ hours in similar practices. If you’re going to a firm that’s heavily compliance-based, your hours may be better and you will probably have more control over your hours. The opposite is probably true if you end up at a huge deal-oriented practice (some firms actually have the practice as a corporate specialty group).

The past few months, I’m on track for 2300+ hours. On top of that, I’ve had to do a lot of extra work to prepare for presentations and talks on coronavirus, which added a significant number of hours (30+) this month.

So if your firm is mostly deal centered (think v10) exec comp, would you say the practice is still very busy??

Spoke to BL assoc at V50 in EBEC. Much less work, since deals are on hold/dead. not sure about other aspects of the practice (i.e., non deal related).

[albanach]

Think folks have to remember that although the speed with which news and the market moves seems to have accelerated even since 2008, in reality we are in the beginning stages of whatever this recession is shaping up to be. The 2008 market crash really impacted the classes of ‘09 and ‘10, and the true slowdown was in the doldrums of 2009 where all of the immediate crash related work had dried up and clients had really contracted their budgets hard.

I feel like the 2008 crash was still significantly affecting hiring at least through the class of 2013. While they certainly had it better than the classes of 09 & 10, the job market was still difficult and ITE threads were commonplace here.

Top ten schools for BL+Fed Clerk in 2013. (2017 figure)
Columbia: 78% (83.3%)
Stanford: 77.8% (75.1%)
Chicago: 72.6% (87.3%)
Harvard: 71.5% (75.7%)
Penn: 69.1% (78.5%)
Cornell: 68.4% (76.7%)
NYU: 67.0% (76.1%)
Yale: 65.5% (63.4%)
Northwestern: 63.4% (71.8%)
UVA: 62.9% (78.7%)

Schools like Chicago and UVA gained around fifteen percent more BL and Fed Clerkship positions in four years. Some of that might be down contraction in class sizes, but the threads here generally felt more optimistic a few years later than they did back in 2013.

Obviously everything depends on the speed of the recovery. If there's a quick bounce-back the effects are likely to be much shorter term. But if it's prolonged, the coming economy could well be impacting those who are just paying for their seat deposits now and even those a year from now.

[LBJ's Hair]

I just found out this morning that one of the partners I worked with closely when I was in private practice passed away from COVID-19. He was a really good guy, and I owe a lot to him for helping me get off the ground as a baby lawyer. It was a stark reminder that the impacts of this thing go a lot deeper than just lost revenue.

Sorry to hear, terrible news

[Anonymous User]

V10 associate. Firm (or at least our office) started asking associates to enter time daily A few weeks ago. Now we are being asked to send weekly email summaries of our matters and estimated hours. They just sent an email saying they are reviewing hours every other day to track associate activity.

I am beside myself. I have had crazy hours the last month, basically wake up, work and go back to sleep, and frankly high hours for this billable year. Understand there may be associates taking advantage of the situation and not working. But I feel like they are being very aggressive because “what are you going to do, quit?” If I have a slow day, I would like to be able to enjoy it instead of having someone on my case because I only billed 5 hours one day.