NYC to 200k Forum

[TheoO]

It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.

This has been the sad truth of being a very good but not excellent/partnership-quality biglaw associate at a top firm from a top law school. You can go to a V5 rather than a V100, but what do you have to show for it at the end of the day other than "prestige." What about the thousands of extra hours of effort that you put in in high school/college (because, in all likelihood, you went to an Ivy), in law school (went to a T14), etc.? Exit ops, partnership prospects, etc. are not guaranteed and are highly dependent on being at the right place at the right time. At the end of the day, the Yale/Columbia Law top 20% associate at a V5 who does not make partner and goes in-house has, twelve years out of high school, not made a penny more than the Hofstra/GW top 40% lawyer who went to a V100 and does the same.

Let's keep out fingers crossed that this changes today.

A trained monkey could do the work of a junior associate.

If any junior feels like they're worth $250k, they're welcome to find any employer in any industry who agrees. Until then, they're gonna piss and moan until the next "new proxy fight--u have time?" email comes flying in.

For as smart as you seem to think HLS/Cravath makes someone, you sure are detailed about how dumb their plans usually are.

I was honestly shocked at how many of my friends at V5-20 firms that are far more prestigious than mine are still spending hours on sig pages.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality.

Holy shit do I hate this profession.

Please leave it.

[Anonymous User]

It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.

This has been the sad truth of being a very good but not excellent/partnership-quality biglaw associate at a top firm from a top law school. You can go to a V5 rather than a V100, but what do you have to show for it at the end of the day other than "prestige." What about the thousands of extra hours of effort that you put in in high school/college (because, in all likelihood, you went to an Ivy), in law school (went to a T14), etc.? Exit ops, partnership prospects, etc. are not guaranteed and are highly dependent on being at the right place at the right time. At the end of the day, the Yale/Columbia Law top 20% associate at a V5 who does not make partner and goes in-house has, twelve years out of high school, not made a penny more than the Hofstra/GW top 40% lawyer who went to a V100 and does the same.

Let's keep out fingers crossed that this changes today.

Triggered v5 associates ITT.

Kirkland's associates don't make more than the v50-100 associates because they aren't any more qualified than the v50-100 associates at being a lawyer. They got marginally better grades in a professional school that does nothing to prepare you for the profession.

You knew what you were getting yourself into from the get go and did it anyway because it made you feel better than everyone else. Joke's on you.

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

Yikes

[Anonymous User]

All firms have some mediocre associates, but you'd be wrong to think some firms don't greater numbers of better lawyers than others. There is a reason Kirkland et. al get hired for bellwhether trials and complicated litigations that are only outsourced to DLA and the like once first heavy lifting is done. It's because, on margin, they are slightly less likely to screw it up.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality.

Holy shit do I hate this profession.

Read Loyola 2L's blog about biglaw! Knocks them down a peg. http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... gspot.com/

Stop shilling this bullshit on every thread. Sorry you struck out during OCI or just hate biglaw for whatever reason. We all know what we signed up for. Brian Boyle's shitty blog doesn't change anyone's thinking here.

[Anonymous User]

It's true toast. Kirkland's PPP is 4x a v50-100's because they get more profitable work. Part of the reason they get that is the partners, but another huge part is the associates. Why would Kirkland's partners make more than the v50-100's but not the associates? That would be like opening a michelin star restuarant and paying your junior cooks what a McDonalds EE makes. It's a complete ripoff.

This has been the sad truth of being a very good but not excellent/partnership-quality biglaw associate at a top firm from a top law school. You can go to a V5 rather than a V100, but what do you have to show for it at the end of the day other than "prestige." What about the thousands of extra hours of effort that you put in in high school/college (because, in all likelihood, you went to an Ivy), in law school (went to a T14), etc.? Exit ops, partnership prospects, etc. are not guaranteed and are highly dependent on being at the right place at the right time. At the end of the day, the Yale/Columbia Law top 20% associate at a V5 who does not make partner and goes in-house has, twelve years out of high school, not made a penny more than the Hofstra/GW top 40% lawyer who went to a V100 and does the same.

Let's keep out fingers crossed that this changes today.

Triggered v5 associates ITT.

Kirkland's associates don't make more than the v50-100 associates because they aren't any more qualified than the v50-100 associates at being a lawyer. They got marginally better grades in a professional school that does nothing to prepare you for the profession.

You knew what you were getting yourself into from the get go and did it anyway because it made you feel better than everyone else. Joke's on you.

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

Yikes

I have countless friends from STB who have ditched it for the comp offered at Kirkland. And who can tell you there are many more they know who have done the same.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

All firms have some mediocre associates, but you'd be wrong to think some firms don't greater numbers of better lawyers than others. There is a reason Kirkland et. al get hired for bellwhether trials and complicated litigations that are only outsourced to DLA and the like once first heavy lifting is done. It's because, on margin, they are slightly less likely to screw it up.

No way dude! They are all the same! Clients are paying higher rates for top firms for NO REASON AT ALL.

The inferiority complex of some of these posters is fucking hilarious.

[JohnnieSockran]

There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality.

Holy shit do I hate this profession.

Read Loyola 2L's blog about biglaw! Knocks them down a peg. http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... gspot.com/

Please leave.

[lawposeidon]

Stop shilling this bullshit on every thread. Sorry you struck out during OCI or just hate biglaw for whatever reason. We all know what we signed up for. Brian Boyle's shitty blog doesn't change anyone's thinking here.

I've been in plaintiff's class action from 2L summer and been here ever since. I really enjoyed reading about what biglaw is really like. Not exactly "prestigious."

[TheoO]

All firms have some mediocre associates, but you'd be wrong to think some firms don't greater numbers of better lawyers than others. There is a reason Kirkland et. al get hired for bellwhether trials and complicated litigations that are only outsourced to DLA and the like once first heavy lifting is done. It's because, on margin, they are slightly less likely to screw it up.

No way dude! They are all the same! Clients are paying higher rates for top firms for NO REASON AT ALL.

The inferiority complex of some of these posters is fucking hilarious.

Or they are paying for the repute of the partner and the need to cover their ass. Honestly, this shit has been argued to death on this site.

And I'm not even arguing that they are the same quality. Just that there are so many factors/forces that come into play here, it's hard to see where individual talent plays such a determinate role.

[Anonymous User]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

amazing post
Enjoy billing 2500 hours at a V5 for 40k less than other V50 firms as a first/second year

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

I thought this post was good at "Lifetime of achievement," "polish and refinement," "remarkably unjust," and "rarefied air," but I think "dripping with prestige" really makes it an all-timer.

Sorry about the whole you-wasted-your-life thing, bud. Refill that Zoloft prescription; it doesn't get better from here.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

I thought this post was good at "Lifetime of achievement," "polish and refinement," "remarkably unjust," and "rarefied air," but I think "dripping with prestige" really makes it an all-timer.

Sorry about the whole you-wasted-your-life thing, bud. Refill that Zoloft prescription; it doesn't get better from here.

lol Monochromatic why haven't you left for "top-law-schools.com" [wtf every time I tried to put in TLS it changed it to TLS] with the rest of the insufferable posters?

also sorry you wasted ur life as well lil breh.

[TheoO]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

I thought this post was good at "Lifetime of achievement," "polish and refinement," "remarkably unjust," and "rarefied air," but I think "dripping with prestige" really makes it an all-timer.

Sorry about the whole you-wasted-your-life thing, bud. Refill that Zoloft prescription; it doesn't get better from here.

lol Monochromatic why haven't you left for TLS with the rest of the insufferable posters?

also sorry you wasted ur life as well lil breh.

Posting quality has taken a serious hit here.

[lawposeidon]

Sorry to whoever is annoyed but biglaw is not prestigious. Let's review Loyola 2L's experience

1. Worked for a lawyer who favored torture.
2. Overheard partners fighting over money.
3. Firm tried to threaten him after he wrote the blog. Failed badly.
4. The firm tells associates to lie to vault.
5. The firm threatened a girl raped by Harvey Weinstein.
6. The firm messed up in a child sex abuse matter and works on these disgusting matters. Also works on "It's no secret that O'Melveny works on a certain type of case. The Exxon Valdez oil spill. Enron. Trump University. Drug manufacturers accused of causing terrible injuries or birth defects. Mass torts, toxic torts and catastrophic torts. Healthcare fraud. Sexual assault, sexual harassment and employment discrimination. Workers deprived of overtime pay. Mass foreclosures. Banks defrauding customers, discriminating against customers or nickel-and-diming customers . . . I could go on and on."
7. Judge Reinhardt hated working there.

Biglaw isn't prestige. It's gutter trash. You folks and your $10,000 raise are another example. Don't ever bring up biglaw and prestige again.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

I thought this post was good at "Lifetime of achievement," "polish and refinement," "remarkably unjust," and "rarefied air," but I think "dripping with prestige" really makes it an all-timer.

Sorry about the whole you-wasted-your-life thing, bud. Refill that Zoloft prescription; it doesn't get better from here.

lol Monochromatic why haven't you left for TLS with the rest of the insufferable posters?

also sorry you wasted ur life as well lil breh.

I occasionally feel bad about my life. Then I remember I've made the same amount of money as people who worked a lot more hours than I did in undergrad, law school and years of practice than I have, and I feel a lot more grateful for how things turned out.

[JohnnieSockran]

Sorry to whoever is annoyed but biglaw is not prestigious. Let's review Loyola 2L's experience

1. Worked for a lawyer who favored torture.
2. Overheard partners fighting over money.
3. Firm tried to threaten him after he wrote the blog. Failed badly.
4. The firm tells associates to lie to vault.
5. The firm threatened a girl raped by Harvey Weinstein.
6. The firm messed up in a child sex abuse matter and works on these disgusting matters. Also works on "It's no secret that O'Melveny works on a certain type of case. The Exxon Valdez oil spill. Enron. Trump University. Drug manufacturers accused of causing terrible injuries or birth defects. Mass torts, toxic torts and catastrophic torts. Healthcare fraud. Sexual assault, sexual harassment and employment discrimination. Workers deprived of overtime pay. Mass foreclosures. Banks defrauding customers, discriminating against customers or nickel-and-diming customers . . . I could go on and on."
7. Judge Reinhardt hated working there.

Biglaw isn't prestige. It's gutter trash. You folks and your $10,000 raise are another example. Don't ever bring up biglaw and prestige again.

We understand. You hate biglaw. This thread is 100% about biglaw, you're not in biglaw, so see yourself out.

[lawposeidon]

Fair enough.

[1styearlateral]

Poor reading comprehension. The post is about a top 10% associate at Cravath or Davis Polk, who has in all likelihood led a lifetime of achievement but due to various factors isn't making partner. There is a chasm of difference in the intelligence, culture, sophistication, polish and refinement of a highly regarded V5 double-Ivy associate and a mediocre V100 associate. If this is not immediately obvious to you, it's because you've never met a person of that quality. It is remarkably unjust that there may very well be no monetary benefit to being an almost-partner candidate at a top law firm with a resume dripping with prestige and a mediocre biglaw lawyer at a mediocre shop.

Also, Kirkland isn't V5. And their associates do get paid more than other law firm associates because their bonuses are materially above market. And the delta in the bonuses has not, to date, been enough to justify leaving the rarefied air of an elite New York firm for Kirkland. The fact that high revenue STB/Cravath partners only did so after extracting guaranteed compensation from Kirkland that appears to be almost twice of their previous compensation ($11MM vs $5MM) should tell you how hard it is to get anyone to leave for even a slightly lesser firm.

I thought this post was good at "Lifetime of achievement," "polish and refinement," "remarkably unjust," and "rarefied air," but I think "dripping with prestige" really makes it an all-timer.

Sorry about the whole you-wasted-your-life thing, bud. Refill that Zoloft prescription; it doesn't get better from here.

lol Monochromatic why haven't you left for TLS with the rest of the insufferable posters?

also sorry you wasted ur life as well lil breh.

I occasionally feel bad about my life. Then I remember I've made the same amount of money as people who worked a lot more hours than I did in undergrad, law school and years of practice than I have, and I feel a lot more grateful for how things turned out.

Work smart, not hard.

[boredtodeath]

This thread is gold. Nay, it's dripping with prestige.

[Anonymous User]

Do we think that firms generally around PPP ~1.5m and above will end up matching? or is the threshold going to probably be closer to ~2.0m and above?

[lawposeidon]

I'll leave and you're right this is a biglaw thread and I shouldn't be here. Not a troll tho it's all here brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-attorney.blogspot.com I always wondered what biglaw was like and loooooved reading that last night and twice today. Biglawyers are the lowest.

Edit: I was replying to person who called me a troll who deleted post. Bye

[TheoO]

Do we think that firms generally around PPP ~1.5m and above will end up matching? or is the threshold going to probably be closer to ~2.0m and above?

What we think doesn't matter really. It's what plays out...

[JohnnieSockran]

I'll leave and you're right this is a biglaw thread and I shouldn't be here. Not a troll tho it's all here brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-attorney.blogspot.com I always wondered what biglaw was like and loooooved reading that last night and twice today. Biglawyers are the lowest.

Guarantee no firm would touch you because of this mis-guided self-righteousness, and now you're bitter.

And before you go making your straw man argument, no, I'm not saying biglaw is self-righteousness, just that you likely have little self-awareness. So take your easy-mac and go home. You sound like a child.

[lawposeidon]

Guarantee no firm would touch you because of this mis-guided self-righteousness, and now you're bitter.

And before you go making your straw man argument, no, I'm not saying biglaw is self-righteousness, just that you likely have little self-awareness. So take your easy-mac and go home. You sound like a child.

You can have it! Gutter trash it up to your heart's desire.