HLS EIP 2016 Forum

[TripTrip]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

[lawlorbust]

Being "weird" is a pretty big kicker.

6+ Hs you're probably fine even if you drool on yourself, 4+ otherwise (assuming a non-DC/CA/etc market).

Cahill, your #3 firm, doesn't really do any corporate law.

... what?

My bad, I forgot this thread had people in it who didn't know what corporate law meant. Cahill does not do corporate law. You are confusing corporate law with transactional law. They do not mean the same thing. It overlaps at most places. But not at Cahill, bc their transactional practice is almost entirely bank-side cap markets. HTH.

(Idiot prancing around STB's hallways screaming "You do M&A for SPONSORS, don't you DARE call yourself a CORPORATE lawyer")

[Anonymous User]

I have one LP but otherwise pretty good grades (5Hs). An advisor at OCS told me that even if not prompted, I should explain the LP every time I hand my transcript to the the interviewer. To me, this feels like I could be bringing unnecessary attention to it. Does anyone, particularly 3Ls or alumni who had an LP, have any advice here?

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

I have one LP but otherwise pretty good grades (5Hs). An advisor at OCS told me that even if not prompted, I should explain the LP every time I hand my transcript to the the interviewer. To me, this feels like I could be bringing unnecessary attention to it. Does anyone, particularly 3Ls or alumni who had an LP, have any advice here?

Your instinct is right - this is bad advice and you should ignore it. Have an explanation ready in case it comes up (a couple interviewers might smile/laugh and ask what's up with the LP) but it's not a big deal since you have 5Hs.

[johndoe111]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

[Anonymous User]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

OCS's advise is to subtract a virtual H if you're bidding DC or CA. So by that logic 7? But they also say to add an H if you have other stuff going for you like advanced degrees and work experience.

[Anonymous User]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

I don't mean to scare you but I came dangerously close to striking out in DC with 7H (though I was an average to slightly-below average interviewer). 6H in DC is definitely still in "maximize CB and offer likelihood" territory, IMO.

[Anonymous User]

Hi - I would really appreciate any feedback on this list!

1DS/6H/3P. K-JD. I think my interviewing skills are at least average - have had a couple of mocks with OCS with positive feedback.

Criteria were: strong litigation in general, strong appellate lit, strong antitrust, prestige/selectivity, and a moderate preference for NYC (also rearranged a bit based on demand for interviews). My concerns are whether this list makes sense based on those criteria and whether I have enough safeties, since these are almost all relatively selective firms.

1 Cravath NYC
2 Williams & C. DC
3 Gibson NYC
4 Boies NYC
5 S&C NYC
6 Kirkland NYC
7 Paul, Weiss NYC
8 Latham DC
9 Gibson DC
10 Skadden NYC
11 WilmerHale DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Covington DC
14 Cleary NYC
15 Wachtell NYC
16 Simpson Thacher NYC
17 Akin Gump NYC
18 Latham NYC
19 Paul Hastings NYC
20 Sidley NYC
21 Hogan Lovells NYC
22 Susman Godfrey NYC
23 Weil NYC
24 Debevoise NYC
25 Arnold and Porter DC
26 Jones Day DC
27 Ropes NYC
28 Cahill Gordon NYC


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

I don't mean to scare you but I came dangerously close to striking out in DC with 7H (though I was an average to slightly-below average interviewer). 6H in DC is definitely still in "maximize CB and offer likelihood" territory, IMO.

I'll note this: having given practice interviews for years, anyone who self-identifies as average-to-slightly-below is probably very bad. Like driving, everyone seems to think they are average or better, even the real duds.

[Anonymous User]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

I don't mean to scare you but I came dangerously close to striking out in DC with 7H (though I was an average to slightly-below average interviewer). 6H in DC is definitely still in "maximize CB and offer likelihood" territory, IMO.

How do DSs factor into this, if at all?

[TripTrip]

OCS's advise is to subtract a virtual H if you're bidding DC or CA. So by that logic 7? But they also say to add an H if you have other stuff going for you like advanced degrees and work experience.

The subtracting and adding stuff is accurate in that many of these items make the same statistical difference as an H. I didn't look at advanced degrees, but work experience yes. It in interesting to note that most people think they have more work experience than most other people applying, so asking whether someone thought they had "X number of years of work experience" turned out not to be very useful. If you want to give yourself a virtual H for work experience, this is the question you should be able to say yes to: "Prior to law school, there was a continuous period of 6 months or more where you wore business professional clothing (a suit) almost daily."

Subtracting a virtual H for DC and CA is also true. If you bid exclusively on DC, subtract two Hs.

How do DSs factor into this, if at all?

2 Hs.

It averages to 1.67 Hs on regression for the screener conversion stage and 1.84 Hs for the callback conversion stage. But it's a little tricky to do the analysis since it's collinear. It's reasonable to assume they'll count it as two-ish.

[Anonymous User]

I think the general strategy should be to maximize interviews/offers unless you have killer grades/great interviewer. Then of course you can f it and bid on any firms you want. As others have mentioned, its really hard to have any strong opinions on any of the firms at this point. So yeah, do take a serious look at cb/offer, bid/interview ratios etc. Ppl at hls do strike out.

What would you say qualify as "killer grades" for this advice to apply?

bump

If you have 6+ Hs (and aren't weird) you probably don't need to be maximizing your callback count.

Thanks for this. What about for DC?

I don't mean to scare you but I came dangerously close to striking out in DC with 7H (though I was an average to slightly-below average interviewer). 6H in DC is definitely still in "maximize CB and offer likelihood" territory, IMO.

I'll note this: having given practice interviews for years, anyone who self-identifies as average-to-slightly-below is probably very bad. Like driving, everyone seems to think they are average or better, even the real duds.

I'm the poster to which you responded. I don't care to get into an extended discussion of the reliability of self-evaluations, but just to clarify, I am capable of putting together sentences and not coming across as a total moron (and my offers in other cities reflected that, e.g. went 3/4 in a TX market that also values personality).

My point is simply that DC is a very competitive market and should not be underestimated. I have a couple friends who struck out due to focusing on DC and not having the best bid strategies. Even if you have 567H, in DC I think it's still wise to maximize interview/CB/offer potential (at the very minimum, throw in a NYC auto-offer like S&C). I actually don't even see how this is a controversial point. Everyone should seek to maximize offer potential.

[nobody17]

Is there a way to import a bid list from Dope into CSM, or do we have to manually enter a bid in CSM for each firm? I started doing that by clicking on the CSM link on the Dope bid list view, but after submitting 2 bids I started getting "class year not applicable" messages in CSM. So now I've had to look up the individual firm-office in CSM to enter my bids. Am I doing something wrong?

[TripTrip]

Is there a way to import a bid list from Dope into CSM, or do we have to manually enter a bid in CSM for each firm? I started doing that by clicking on the CSM link on the Dope bid list view, but after submitting 2 bids I started getting "class year not applicable" messages in CSM. So now I've had to look up the individual firm-office in CSM to enter my bids. Am I doing something wrong?

It's supposed to work with the CSM buttons. Gimme a sec to look at it.

[TripTrip]

Is there a way to import a bid list from Dope into CSM, or do we have to manually enter a bid in CSM for each firm? I started doing that by clicking on the CSM link on the Dope bid list view, but after submitting 2 bids I started getting "class year not applicable" messages in CSM. So now I've had to look up the individual firm-office in CSM to enter my bids. Am I doing something wrong?

It's supposed to work with the CSM buttons. Gimme a sec to look at it.

Actually, are you c/o 2017? The links will only work for rising 2Ls. Rising 3Ls can only bid on the firms with 3L interview schedules.

[nobody17]

Hey TripTrip, I'm Class of 2018.

[Indy16]

Hi - I would really appreciate any feedback on this list!

1DS/6H/3P. K-JD. I think my interviewing skills are at least average - have had a couple of mocks with OCS with positive feedback.

Criteria were: strong litigation in general, strong appellate lit, strong antitrust, prestige/selectivity, and a moderate preference for NYC (also rearranged a bit based on demand for interviews). My concerns are whether this list makes sense based on those criteria and whether I have enough safeties, since these are almost all relatively selective firms.

1 Cravath NYC
2 Williams & C. DC
3 Gibson NYC
4 Boies NYC
5 S&C NYC
6 Kirkland NYC
7 Paul, Weiss NYC
8 Latham DC
9 Gibson DC
10 Skadden NYC
11 WilmerHale DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Covington DC
14 Cleary NYC
15 Wachtell NYC
16 Simpson Thacher NYC
17 Akin Gump NYC
18 Latham NYC
19 Paul Hastings NYC
20 Sidley NYC
21 Hogan Lovells NYC
22 Susman Godfrey NYC
23 Weil NYC
24 Debevoise NYC
25 Arnold and Porter DC
26 Jones Day DC
27 Ropes NYC
28 Cahill Gordon NYC


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Just a general note that Cahill had like a sub 40% bid success rate so putting them last seems like a waste. Susman was also like 30%, so almost definitely a waste at 22.

[Anonymous User]

Hi - I would really appreciate any feedback on this list!

1DS/6H/3P. K-JD. I think my interviewing skills are at least average - have had a couple of mocks with OCS with positive feedback.

Criteria were: strong litigation in general, strong appellate lit, strong antitrust, prestige/selectivity, and a moderate preference for NYC (also rearranged a bit based on demand for interviews). My concerns are whether this list makes sense based on those criteria and whether I have enough safeties, since these are almost all relatively selective firms.

1 Cravath NYC
2 Williams & C. DC
3 Gibson NYC
4 Boies NYC
5 S&C NYC
6 Kirkland NYC
7 Paul, Weiss NYC
8 Latham DC
9 Gibson DC
10 Skadden NYC
11 WilmerHale DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Covington DC
14 Cleary NYC
15 Wachtell NYC
16 Simpson Thacher NYC
17 Akin Gump NYC
18 Latham NYC
19 Paul Hastings NYC
20 Sidley NYC
21 Hogan Lovells NYC
22 Susman Godfrey NYC
23 Weil NYC
24 Debevoise NYC
25 Arnold and Porter DC
26 Jones Day DC
27 Ropes NYC
28 Cahill Gordon NYC


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Just a general note that Cahill had like a sub 40% bid success rate so putting them last seems like a waste. Susman was also like 30%, so almost definitely a waste at 22.

Thanks for the feedback! Yea by bid ~17 I certainly won't be heartbroken if I don't get to meet with a firm. But I figured that bidding on low success rate firms in that range just means I might, for example, get skipped over for my 18 - 21 bids, but then be high enough priority that I get a hard-to-get firm at 22 or something. Or am I thinking about this wrong and if your last ~10 bids are all low success rate you might not get any of them? Not sure about how the algorithm works or how things turn out in practice.

[Indy16]

Hi - I would really appreciate any feedback on this list!

1DS/6H/3P. K-JD. I think my interviewing skills are at least average - have had a couple of mocks with OCS with positive feedback.

Criteria were: strong litigation in general, strong appellate lit, strong antitrust, prestige/selectivity, and a moderate preference for NYC (also rearranged a bit based on demand for interviews). My concerns are whether this list makes sense based on those criteria and whether I have enough safeties, since these are almost all relatively selective firms.

1 Cravath NYC
2 Williams & C. DC
3 Gibson NYC
4 Boies NYC
5 S&C NYC
6 Kirkland NYC
7 Paul, Weiss NYC
8 Latham DC
9 Gibson DC
10 Skadden NYC
11 WilmerHale DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Covington DC
14 Cleary NYC
15 Wachtell NYC
16 Simpson Thacher NYC
17 Akin Gump NYC
18 Latham NYC
19 Paul Hastings NYC
20 Sidley NYC
21 Hogan Lovells NYC
22 Susman Godfrey NYC
23 Weil NYC
24 Debevoise NYC
25 Arnold and Porter DC
26 Jones Day DC
27 Ropes NYC
28 Cahill Gordon NYC


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Just a general note that Cahill had like a sub 40% bid success rate so putting them last seems like a waste. Susman was also like 30%, so almost definitely a waste at 22.

Thanks for the feedback! Yea by bid ~17 I certainly won't be heartbroken if I don't get to meet with a firm. But I figured that bidding on low success rate firms in that range just means I might, for example, get skipped over for my 18 - 21 bids, but then be high enough priority that I get a hard-to-get firm at 22 or something. Or am I thinking about this wrong and if your last ~10 bids are all low success rate you might not get any of them? Not sure about how the algorithm works or how things turn out in practice.

Someone who knows more than me (I.e. Anyone) can step in, but that's not how I understood things to work.

[TripTrip]

Hey TripTrip, I'm Class of 2018.

OK, so I haven't isolated the cause of the error but I did reproduce it. I have been able to fix it by going to the OCI list and clicking on the last page of firm results, then going back to Dope to CSM >> the firm again. I honestly don't know why that works, but I know now is not really the time anyone wants me to be fiddling with things behind the scenes.

Is it happening for you on every firm, or just some? If just some, which ones?

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Hi - I would really appreciate any feedback on this list!

1DS/6H/3P. K-JD. I think my interviewing skills are at least average - have had a couple of mocks with OCS with positive feedback.

Criteria were: strong litigation in general, strong appellate lit, strong antitrust, prestige/selectivity, and a moderate preference for NYC (also rearranged a bit based on demand for interviews). My concerns are whether this list makes sense based on those criteria and whether I have enough safeties, since these are almost all relatively selective firms.

1 Cravath NYC
2 Williams & C. DC
3 Gibson NYC
4 Boies NYC
5 S&C NYC
6 Kirkland NYC
7 Paul, Weiss NYC
8 Latham DC
9 Gibson DC
10 Skadden NYC
11 WilmerHale DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Covington DC
14 Cleary NYC
15 Wachtell NYC
16 Simpson Thacher NYC
17 Akin Gump NYC
18 Latham NYC
19 Paul Hastings NYC
20 Sidley NYC
21 Hogan Lovells NYC
22 Susman Godfrey NYC
23 Weil NYC
24 Debevoise NYC
25 Arnold and Porter DC
26 Jones Day DC
27 Ropes NYC
28 Cahill Gordon NYC


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Cleary DC has a strong antitrust practice; Hogan DC and Mayer Brown DC also have good appellate practices. Not sure how bidding on multiple offices of the same firm works, though-maybe someone else can speak to that.

[Joscellin]

I'm having a heck of a time getting back into Dope to move my bidlist over - getting repeated gateway timeouts. Is this just a crunch of students all trying to do the same thing?

[TripTrip]

I'm having a heck of a time getting back into Dope to move my bidlist over - getting repeated gateway timeouts. Is this just a crunch of students all trying to do the same thing?

Yes.

Working on it.

[Joscellin]

I'm having a heck of a time getting back into Dope to move my bidlist over - getting repeated gateway timeouts. Is this just a crunch of students all trying to do the same thing?

Yes.

Working on it.

You're the best!

[TripTrip]

If you can't access your bidlist, click here. You should get an email with similar instructions in a few minutes.