Biglaw associates: are any of us actually happy? Forum

[wons]

Those V5 (minus WLRK) are making like 25-35 partners a year and have over 550 new associates each year.

And you really don't get another "bite at the apple" because outside of V10 and a few elite firms there is no bite at the apple anymore. You don't make partner, you buy in with your mobile book of business.

This is false.

[Desert Fox]

[A. Nony Mouse]

Also, this is not meant to insult, troll or flame, but I think people should be realistic. I struggle to understand how people who spend significant time online (posting or lurking) are worried about the quality/meaningful use of their time.

180

Yet again, people fail to get the concept that different people define meaningful differently. And the idea that online community can't be meaningful is just silly and short sighted.

[jbagelboy]

Also, this is not meant to insult, troll or flame, but I think people should be realistic. I struggle to understand how people who spend significant time online (posting or lurking) are worried about the quality/meaningful use of their time.

180

Yet again, people fail to get the concept that different people define meaningful differently. And the idea that online community can't be meaningful is just silly and short sighted.

also like 90% of TLS posting occurs at work

[handsonthewheel]

So basically we are split: some of us define happiness as making $250k+ (or even $1M+) and some of us define happiness as seeking meaning in work, or having time to spend with family/friends/SO's, pursue hobbies, exercise, etc.

Inaccurate?

[krads153]

basically, yes. although i'd be happiest making 1 million+ but not having to work, mainly because it gives me unlimited free time and means to do non-work stuff. it seems like the split leans towards the latter.

[Anonymous User]

So this may be off topic, or perhaps addressed, but I'll ask anyway. Warning though: might not be asking the most coherent question.

At least to the part that can be controlled, how does one set themselves up for happiness in big law? Besides T&E (and even then), almost every job requires 80+ hours a week on average. How can one find something sustainable? I've been told some practice areas are better than others (project finance is better than M&A, for example), so is the key to get into those kinds of areas?

[Desert Fox]

[rpupkin]

I do know one guy who is truly happy* in big law. He works 9-6 biglaw, works after 6 like 10 times a year max. Has worked on one megacase his entire career. Works for a great chill partner. He's really good at either billing all his time in the office, probably 100%. But that is the luck of the draw.

I know a couple of people like this as well. It should be noted that this arrangement usually isn't sustainable for the associate: Once the associate becomes senior, the firm will probably want to push him out. If the chill partner has a lot of pull (and chill partners usually don't have much pull), he could arrange to keep the associate around as of counsel or something.

In any event, it's a nice situation while it lasts.

[Desert Fox]

[auds1008]

So I know I am not happy, based on my definition of happiness of course, with my work, and I am thinking about leaving soon. By leaving, I mean this whole legal field. I will spare you my rant on why I think it's not fun anymore. I do enjoy working with the people in my group, I think they're very cool to hangout with in and out of work, but the work itself is just not as appealing as it was when I started.

So my question is, how do I do it? What should I say? Should I send an email first or talk to the boss first?

I'll start a new thread if ya'll want to continue discussing about the definition of happiness/meaningfulness, which I find entertaining.

[84651846190]

None of you are going to make partner and you will all be unhappy.

Trump 2016

[El Pollito]

Those V5 (minus WLRK) are making like 25-35 partners a year and have over 550 new associates each year.

And you really don't get another "bite at the apple" because outside of V10 and a few elite firms there is no bite at the apple anymore. You don't make partner, you buy in with your mobile book of business.

This is false.

There are always exceptions and I don't consider income partners real partners because they aren't.

was just at a meeting where someone didn't acknowledge an income partner as a partner

[krads153]

None of you are going to make partner and you will all be unhappy.

Trump 2016

Not making partner makes it more likely that you'll be happy though.

I just plan on making millions programming. NBD.

[silenttimer]

I'm not particularly happy about my job, but I don't hate it enough to quit either. I like the money, which allowed me to pay off my loans within 3 years of being here. While I hate the long hours and grind, I don't mind it because I don't have kids. I know this life style is not sustainable, however. So, I'm always keeping my eyes out for the evetual exit.

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

So basically we are split: some of us define happiness as making $250k+ (or even $1M+) and some of us define happiness as seeking meaning in work, or having time to spend with family/friends/SO's, pursue hobbies, exercise, etc.

Inaccurate?

I think it's inaccurate insofar as it assumes that biglaw and "significant others, hobbies, exercise, etc." are incompatible.

I'm in biglaw but (without giving away my whole life story), I've recently gotten engaged, I work out 4-5 days a week, I have hobbies that I'm invested in, etc. So I think that what's being presented here is a false narrative re: what happens to your life in biglaw (the only major caveat is that I don't have kids, and I can imagine that kids would screw everything up).

This isn't to say I haven't given things up. For example, my TV consumption is much less than it was in lawschool (I basically only have bandwidth to follow 1 show at a time now); I used to play video games regularly, now I will take month long "breaks"; and I've dropped out of basically all the "internet communities" I used to participate in. Maybe these can all be classified as "hobbies," But I've kept up with other hobbies so it's not fair to say that I don't have hobbies at all (e.g. I still read novels, I still travel, I still hike, etc.).

This also isn't to say that biglaw doesn't interfere with my life. For example, I had planned a road trip this past Memorial Day weekend that I had to cancel last-minute; and at the time that sucked. But I also spent a week in Paris on vacation without any trouble, so it's crap to claim that biglaw keeps me from traveling.

[84651846190]

So basically we are split: some of us define happiness as making $250k+ (or even $1M+) and some of us define happiness as seeking meaning in work, or having time to spend with family/friends/SO's, pursue hobbies, exercise, etc.

Inaccurate?

I think it's inaccurate insofar as it assumes that biglaw and "significant others, hobbies, exercise, etc." are incompatible.

I'm in biglaw but (without giving away my whole life story), I've recently gotten engaged, I work out 4-5 days a week, I have hobbies that I'm invested in, etc. So I think that what's being presented here is a false narrative re: what happens to your life in biglaw (the only major caveat is that I don't have kids, and I can imagine that kids would screw everything up).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-y ... ew-parent/

[Anonymous User]

Having holiday weekends blow up is actually one of this most draining things. Ever since I began I've felt like I can plan nothing. This year I've had Easter, Memorial Day, the Fourth, and now likely Labor Day all blown up at last minute. I can depend on a deal dying on a Tuesday and having nothing to do during the week, but god forbid I try and make plans for a weekend when 99% of the country takes off.

[jbagelboy]

So basically we are split: some of us define happiness as making $250k+ (or even $1M+) and some of us define happiness as seeking meaning in work, or having time to spend with family/friends/SO's, pursue hobbies, exercise, etc.

Inaccurate?

I think it's inaccurate insofar as it assumes that biglaw and "significant others, hobbies, exercise, etc." are incompatible.

I'm in biglaw but (without giving away my whole life story), I've recently gotten engaged, I work out 4-5 days a week, I have hobbies that I'm invested in, etc. So I think that what's being presented here is a false narrative re: what happens to your life in biglaw (the only major caveat is that I don't have kids, and I can imagine that kids would screw everything up).

This isn't to say I haven't given things up. For example, my TV consumption is much less than it was in lawschool (I basically only have bandwidth to follow 1 show at a time now); I used to play video games regularly, now I will take month long "breaks"; and I've dropped out of basically all the "internet communities" I used to participate in. Maybe these can all be classified as "hobbies," But I've kept up with other hobbies so it's not fair to say that I don't have hobbies at all (e.g. I still read novels, I still travel, I still hike, etc.).

This also isn't to say that biglaw doesn't interfere with my life. For example, I had planned a road trip this past Memorial Day weekend that I had to cancel last-minute; and at the time that sucked. But I also spent a week in Paris on vacation without any trouble, so it's crap to claim that biglaw keeps me from traveling.

aren't you in SF or something

I think this thread is mostly for NY associates. having seen both ny and non-ny markets now I'm pretty confident in stating that new york firms offer considerably worse quality of life/less happiness.

of course before I get jumped on this doesn't apply universally and I'm sure skadden or sullivan's satellites are still pretty intense

[El Pollito]

So basically we are split: some of us define happiness as making $250k+ (or even $1M+) and some of us define happiness as seeking meaning in work, or having time to spend with family/friends/SO's, pursue hobbies, exercise, etc.

Inaccurate?

I think it's inaccurate insofar as it assumes that biglaw and "significant others, hobbies, exercise, etc." are incompatible.

I'm in biglaw but (without giving away my whole life story), I've recently gotten engaged, I work out 4-5 days a week, I have hobbies that I'm invested in, etc. So I think that what's being presented here is a false narrative re: what happens to your life in biglaw (the only major caveat is that I don't have kids, and I can imagine that kids would screw everything up).

This isn't to say I haven't given things up. For example, my TV consumption is much less than it was in lawschool (I basically only have bandwidth to follow 1 show at a time now); I used to play video games regularly, now I will take month long "breaks"; and I've dropped out of basically all the "internet communities" I used to participate in. Maybe these can all be classified as "hobbies," But I've kept up with other hobbies so it's not fair to say that I don't have hobbies at all (e.g. I still read novels, I still travel, I still hike, etc.).

This also isn't to say that biglaw doesn't interfere with my life. For example, I had planned a road trip this past Memorial Day weekend that I had to cancel last-minute; and at the time that sucked. But I also spent a week in Paris on vacation without any trouble, so it's crap to claim that biglaw keeps me from traveling.

aren't you in SF or something

I think this thread is mostly for NY associates. having seen both ny and non-ny markets now I'm pretty confident in stating that new york firms offer considerably worse quality of life/less happiness.

of course before I get jumped on this doesn't apply universally and I'm sure skadden or sullivan's satellites are still pretty intense

you picked a bad market to compare, stuff here is extremely busy

[Tiago Splitter]

Dude said he's billed 270+ for three straight months

[Desert Fox]

[jbagelboy]

is it just about how busy you are? I'm not trying to prove a point, just asking honestly. if we're just equating how bearable a large firm associate position is/how happy it makes you with amount of free time, then sure, it's a bad example.

but my sense is that it also relates to the kind of work you're doing and your facetime requirement. the work juniors do in new york seems to be more monotonous (higher % of hrs committed to doc review), the environment more stressful, and you're expected to be in the office until later in the evening and on weekends. even if you're equally as busy, each of these other factors can contribute, can they not?

[gk101]

Dude said he's billed 270+ for three straight months

I don't get how you can bill 270 for three straight months and still have your wife be happy, still have hobbies, etc. etc.

If we has a newbie I'd say he still just has his honeymoon period, typically 6 months.

Hopeful, you weren't super slow until like March were you?

yeah I have no idea how you bill 270 for 3 months and still find time to keep up with your hobbies etc..

[84651846190]

Dude said he's billed 270+ for three straight months

Yeah, no one who is billing those kinds of hours has any kind of real life outside of work, assuming he/she is honestly working what is billed.