HLS EIP 2014 Forum

[CicerBRo]

Hi everyone. Would love any critiques on this list. IT IS NOT YET IN ORDER. I will be ordering it based (roughly) on bid-interview conversion rates.


K-JD, Ivy undergrad, no ties. All in on New York. 1 H and 9 P's (H was in mushy elective).

Interested in (and resume speaks to) litigation. I feel very comfortable interviewing, and I think I have a good narrative about my 1L summer job (at a small firm).


Schulte Roth & Zabel
Kramer, Levin, Naftalis & Frankel
Cahill Gordon & Reindel
Allen & Overy
Bingham McCutchen
White & Case
Winston & Strawn LLP
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Sidley Austin LLP
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Proskauer Rose
Hogan Lovells
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
Clifford Chance
Jenner & Block
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Floam
Jones Day
WilmerHale
Paul Hastings LLP
Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman
Weil Gotshal & Manges
Shearman & Sterling
Kaye Scholer
Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson
Ropes & Gray
Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman
Brown Rudnick
Dechert
Greenberg Traurig
Morrison & Foerster

Pretty sure this is a good list. Don't see any impossible reaches. Anyone else?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know what the deal is with BSA/LR? When/how do they notify people? When is membership finalized? On some other forum I heard something about a BSA waitlist?

Just trying to figure out what's happening over the next few weeks.

[wwwcol]

Pretty sure this is a good list. Don't see any impossible reaches. Anyone else?

I don't mean this as an attack on your contributions specifically CicerBro, but this thread feels increasingly like the blind leading the blind. There are a bunch of bidlists that have been posted in the past few pages and they largely garnered either no response or response from others of us participating in OCI. Are there are 3Ls or alums out there who are lurking this thread? If so, your thoughts and critiques would be greatly appreciated as bidding season approaches.

Anybody know what the deal is with BSA/LR? When/how do they notify people? When is membership finalized? On some other forum I heard something about a BSA waitlist?

The HLR website says calls go out starting next Monday, the 21st. No idea about BSA

[Anonymous User]

I'm a below-average interviewer with below-average softs but have above average grades (4 H's, 1 DS, 5 P's). I'm trying to find safeties, but it's tough figuring out whether the lower class sizes in lower-ranked firms would really give me a better chance than the larger class sizes of higher ranked firms. Does anyone know which firms really base their decisions heavily on grades?

I have heard Sullivan & Cromwell is like this. You will get an offer if you have good enough grades (5Hs or more). In my case, my screening and callback interviews were not that good, and I still got an offer.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a below-average interviewer with below-average softs but have above average grades (4 H's, 1 DS, 5 P's). I'm trying to find safeties, but it's tough figuring out whether the lower class sizes in lower-ranked firms would really give me a better chance than the larger class sizes of higher ranked firms. Does anyone know which firms really base their decisions heavily on grades?

I have heard Sullivan & Cromwell is like this. You will get an offer if you have good enough grades (5Hs or more). In my case, my screening and callback interviews were not that good, and I still got an offer.

if you dont mind me asking, what was your grade? is 5H an unofficial cutoff for S&C?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a below-average interviewer with below-average softs but have above average grades (4 H's, 1 DS, 5 P's). I'm trying to find safeties, but it's tough figuring out whether the lower class sizes in lower-ranked firms would really give me a better chance than the larger class sizes of higher ranked firms. Does anyone know which firms really base their decisions heavily on grades?

I have heard Sullivan & Cromwell is like this. You will get an offer if you have good enough grades (5Hs or more). In my case, my screening and callback interviews were not that good, and I still got an offer.

if you dont mind me asking, what was your grade? is 5H an unofficial cutoff for S&C?

I had 2 DS's, 4 H's, and 4 P's. Yes. I heard that 5H's was the cutoff, but I do not remember where I heard that from. Maybe it was here.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure this is a good list. Don't see any impossible reaches. Anyone else?

I don't mean this as an attack on your contributions specifically CicerBro, but this thread feels increasingly like the blind leading the blind. There are a bunch of bidlists that have been posted in the past few pages and they largely garnered either no response or response from others of us participating in OCI. Are there are 3Ls or alums out there who are lurking this thread? If so, your thoughts and critiques would be greatly appreciated as bidding season approaches.

Original anon who posted the bid list.

I understand if you do not want the "blind" commenting on your bid list. I do not see it that way. Instead, I would appreciate the opportunity to get feedback on something important to me from other Harvard law students tasked with researching the same things. They may catch something I have missed, and that could make all the difference. Or not, but I think it is worth a try.

Of course - 3L's and alums are ideal. But I am a beggar, not a chooser, so I will take what I can get.

Please do not shout down people who comment on my list in a manner that will scare away others from doing so. I would appreciate their feedback as well, 20/20 vision or otherwise. It is fine if you do not want the advice, but do not hinder my access to it.


Cicerbro, and anyone else who is kind enough to take the time to give advice, thank you.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know what the deal is with BSA/LR? When/how do they notify people? When is membership finalized? On some other forum I heard something about a BSA waitlist?

Just trying to figure out what's happening over the next few weeks.

I know someone who has gotten BSA and someone who got waitlisted. I'm guessing no news is bad news in this case.

[094320]

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[Potentia]

Hey all. I am a transfer from a T20, top 5 in my class. I am looking to practice corporate law ideally in NY/LA (MA, cap markets, PE) but would also be interested in VC/startup transactional work (SV). I just wanted to get some feedback on my bid list, and if anyone has any experiences or advice with regards to attempting three markets (NY, LA, and SV in my case) please let me know. Thanks.

1. Kirkland & Ellis
S&C
Cravath
Debevoise
Simpson Thacher
Jones Day
Cleary Gottlieb
Davis Polk
Weil, Gotshal
10. Latham (LA)
Gibson (LA)
WLRK (Wachtell)
Shearman
Skadden (LA)
Paul Weis
Sidley (LA)
Proskauer (LA)
Paul Hastings (LA)
Cooley (SV)
20. Fenwick (SV)
Gunderson (SV)
Wilson Sonsini (SV)
MTO (LA)
Fried, Frank, Harris
Willkie
White & Case
Milbank (LA)
Ropes & Gray

[094320]

..

[Anonymous User]

I'm also a transfer from a T20. Does anybody know if certain firms aren't worth bidding at all if you're a transfer, or conversely, firms that are particularly favorable to transfers? I haven't gotten a very good read from OCS how I should be playing this - they say to split evenly between "highly selective" and "less selective" firms, but that's about as good as saying nothing. Shooting for NY and LA, ties to both (3 years WE in LA, family in NYC), preference is towards LA. Pre-lim bidlist forthcoming

[Anonymous User]

I am anonymously posting my bid list. All NYC except some DC that are noted. Callsign: "Bigapplemaybe"

I am concerned the list is not conservative enough considering my grades. Wondering what people think.

Non-URM, HYP undergrad, good WE (NFP/legal) pre-LS and "why law school" narrative, EC involvement but no strong journal, 0 H (yikes). Solid but unspectacular interviewer overall. But I like interviewing.

I wasn't sure how to rank, I basically ranked based on slots available, with some exceptions. Anyone have any tips on this?

Cleary Gottlieb
Paul Weiss
Weil Gotshal
Paul Hastings
Paul Weiss DC
Goodwin Procter
Paul Hastings DC
Jones Day
Akin Gump
Baker Hostetler
Clifford Chance
Mayer Brown DC
Willkie Farr
Milbank Tweed
Covington Burling
Shearman Sterling
Hunton Williams DC
O'Melveny Myers DC
Kramer Levin
Linklaters
Kirkland Ellis
Sidley Austin
WilmerHale
White Case
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Proskauer Rose
Freshfields
Latham Watkins
Cadwalader
Davis Polk
Dechert
Allen Overy
Ropes & Gray DC
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank

[Anonymous User]

Might I ask why the whole Symplicity page must refresh in order to change the rank of a single bid? Is there a way to prevent that from happening?

If not, why, might I ask, would Symplicity wish to so grossly multiply the time we need to spend on Symplicity? (It's not like they advertise on it, or anything...)

[Anonymous User]

I am anonymously posting my bid list. All NYC except some DC that are noted. Callsign: "Bigapplemaybe"

I am concerned the list is not conservative enough considering my grades. Wondering what people think.

Non-URM, HYP undergrad, good WE (NFP/legal) pre-LS and "why law school" narrative, EC involvement but no strong journal, 0 H (yikes). Solid but unspectacular interviewer overall. But I like interviewing.

I wasn't sure how to rank, I basically ranked based on slots available, with some exceptions. Anyone have any tips on this?

Cleary Gottlieb
Paul Weiss
Weil Gotshal
Paul Hastings
Paul Weiss DC
Goodwin Procter
Paul Hastings DC
Jones Day
Akin Gump
Baker Hostetler
Clifford Chance
Mayer Brown DC
Willkie Farr
Milbank Tweed
Covington Burling
Shearman Sterling
Hunton Williams DC
O'Melveny Myers DC
Kramer Levin
Linklaters
Kirkland Ellis
Sidley Austin
WilmerHale
White Case
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Proskauer Rose
Freshfields
Latham Watkins
Cadwalader
Davis Polk
Dechert
Allen Overy
Ropes & Gray DC
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank

I assume this means no LPs? This seems to have too many reaches for someone well below median. Are you set on DC?

[jrf12886]

I'm also a transfer from a T20. Does anybody know if certain firms aren't worth bidding at all if you're a transfer, or conversely, firms that are particularly favorable to transfers? I haven't gotten a very good read from OCS how I should be playing this - they say to split evenly between "highly selective" and "less selective" firms, but that's about as good as saying nothing. Shooting for NY and LA, ties to both (3 years WE in LA, family in NYC), preference is towards LA. Pre-lim bidlist forthcoming

My experience is that almost all firms are happy to hire tranfers from HLS. If you look at where transfers have gone the last few years (and I believe OCS will give you that data), you'll see that they place well into even the most selective firms. I have heard from other transfers that W&C and WLRK don't often hire transfers, but that's about it.

[jrf12886]

Hey all. I am a transfer from a T20, top 5 in my class. I am looking to practice corporate law ideally in NY/LA (MA, cap markets, PE) but would also be interested in VC/startup transactional work (SV). I just wanted to get some feedback on my bid list, and if anyone has any experiences or advice with regards to attempting three markets (NY, LA, and SV in my case) please let me know. Thanks.

1. Kirkland & Ellis
S&C
Cravath
Debevoise
Simpson Thacher
Jones Day
Cleary Gottlieb
Davis Polk
Weil, Gotshal
10. Latham (LA)
Gibson (LA)
WLRK (Wachtell)
Shearman
Skadden (LA)
Paul Weis
Sidley (LA)
Proskauer (LA)
Paul Hastings (LA)
Cooley (SV)
20. Fenwick (SV)
Gunderson (SV)
Wilson Sonsini (SV)
MTO (LA)
Fried, Frank, Harris
Willkie
White & Case
Milbank (LA)
Ropes & Gray

Assuming this is in order, you need to bid Fenwick, Wilson, Gunderson, and Cooley SV a lot higher in order to get a screener.

Your results will be fairy similar to what you would have gotten if you hadn't transferred (a slight boost, at best). I have no idea what the odds are for any of these coming from your T20 in the top 5. Ties also matter. This list would be a bad idea for someone at HLS if they didn't have top grades, and I'm not sure top 5 at a T20 translates into being treated like top grades at HLS. I'd strongly advise talking to someone in OCS with experience with transfers; my gut is that this is too reach-heavy.

From what I've seen in my transfer class, the TLS conventional wisdom that firms will treat you like they would have if you hadn't transferred doesn't hold true at EIP. They don't quite treat your 1L grades as if they were earned at HLS, but you should be bidding similar to people who are in the top third or quarter of the class. With that in mind, I think you have plenty of good targets on your list. I would say about half of the transfers my year ended up at firms on your list. Feel free to PM me with more specific questions.

[094320]

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[srilina]

I'm also a transfer from a T20. Does anybody know if certain firms aren't worth bidding at all if you're a transfer, or conversely, firms that are particularly favorable to transfers? I haven't gotten a very good read from OCS how I should be playing this - they say to split evenly between "highly selective" and "less selective" firms, but that's about as good as saying nothing. Shooting for NY and LA, ties to both (3 years WE in LA, family in NYC), preference is towards LA. Pre-lim bidlist forthcoming

Recent JD here (transfer from T20). We do *very* well. Simpson Thatcher is the only firm I encountered that really did not seem to like the transfer thing. I would estimate we're treated as though we're in the top 1/3 of the class. Most of the NY bound in my transfer group are going to top-ranked: Skadden, Cravath, S&C (don't think we had any Wachtell). LA did similarly well.

Why we do well: transfers have reputations for being really hard-working/diligent, we're less "snobby" (actually a comment I got from an interviewer - not an accurate reflection of the HLS student body, but whatever), and we have "real" grades.

[lameslice57]

I'm also a transfer from a T20. Does anybody know if certain firms aren't worth bidding at all if you're a transfer, or conversely, firms that are particularly favorable to transfers? I haven't gotten a very good read from OCS how I should be playing this - they say to split evenly between "highly selective" and "less selective" firms, but that's about as good as saying nothing. Shooting for NY and LA, ties to both (3 years WE in LA, family in NYC), preference is towards LA. Pre-lim bidlist forthcoming

My experience is that almost all firms are happy to hire tranfers from HLS. If you look at where transfers have gone the last few years (and I believe OCS will give you that data), you'll see that they place well into even the most selective firms. I have heard from other transfers that W&C and WLRK don't often hire transfers, but that's about it.

Fwiw, there's at least one transfer at W&C this year.

[Anonymous User]

1 DS / 9 P. Above-average softs, prestigious UG, good interview skills - Is it worth bidding anything like Kirkland, Cravath, Fenwick, or Weill?

Would love to end up at any - any help is appreciated!

[lameslice57]

1 DS / 9 P. Above-average softs, prestigious UG, good interview skills - Is it worth bidding anything like Kirkland, Cravath, Fenwick, or Weill?

Would love to end up at any - any help is appreciated!

Kirkland and Weil NYC are certainly doable. I suspect that Cravath would be a pretty big reach but your softs/interviewing could get you there. No idea about Fenwick.

[Anonymous User]

I am anonymously posting my bid list. All NYC except some DC that are noted. Callsign: "Bigapplemaybe"

I am concerned the list is not conservative enough considering my grades. Wondering what people think.

Non-URM, HYP undergrad, good WE (NFP/legal) pre-LS and "why law school" narrative, EC involvement but no strong journal, 0 H (yikes). Solid but unspectacular interviewer overall. But I like interviewing.

I wasn't sure how to rank, I basically ranked based on slots available, with some exceptions. Anyone have any tips on this?

Cleary Gottlieb
Paul Weiss
Weil Gotshal
Paul Hastings
Paul Weiss DC
Goodwin Procter
Paul Hastings DC
Jones Day
Akin Gump
Baker Hostetler
Clifford Chance
Mayer Brown DC
Willkie Farr
Milbank Tweed
Covington Burling
Shearman Sterling
Hunton Williams DC
O'Melveny Myers DC
Kramer Levin
Linklaters
Kirkland Ellis
Sidley Austin
WilmerHale
White Case
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Proskauer Rose
Freshfields
Latham Watkins
Cadwalader
Davis Polk
Dechert
Allen Overy
Ropes & Gray DC
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank

Given 10P and "solid but unspectacular" interviewing skills, i think your concerns are well-founded and that it would be a good move to forget about DC and focus exclusively on NYC firms

[Anonymous User]

I am anonymously posting my bid list. All NYC except some DC that are noted. Callsign: "Bigapplemaybe"

I am concerned the list is not conservative enough considering my grades. Wondering what people think.

Non-URM, HYP undergrad, good WE (NFP/legal) pre-LS and "why law school" narrative, EC involvement but no strong journal, 0 H (yikes). Solid but unspectacular interviewer overall. But I like interviewing.

I wasn't sure how to rank, I basically ranked based on slots available, with some exceptions. Anyone have any tips on this?

Cleary Gottlieb
Paul Weiss
Weil Gotshal
Paul Hastings
Paul Weiss DC
Goodwin Procter
Paul Hastings DC
Jones Day
Akin Gump
Baker Hostetler
Clifford Chance
Mayer Brown DC
Willkie Farr
Milbank Tweed
Covington Burling
Shearman Sterling
Hunton Williams DC
O'Melveny Myers DC
Kramer Levin
Linklaters
Kirkland Ellis
Sidley Austin
WilmerHale
White Case
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Proskauer Rose
Freshfields
Latham Watkins
Cadwalader
Davis Polk
Dechert
Allen Overy
Ropes & Gray DC
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank

I assume this means no LPs? This seems to have too many reaches for someone well below median. Are you set on DC?

I'll also go ahead and say that it is extremely unlikely you'll get anything from DC based on the firms you chose. With straight p's, DC is still in play, but you're gonna need some brute force (interview with a lot of DC firms) and less selective firms. Right now you have neither. With only 7 or so DC screeners, and perhaps only one firm that might bite with your grades, right now I think those are wasted bids.

[Anonymous User]

Callsign: "BosToLA" (Please don't quote)

Bid list in order (more than 35 bc of one interview/multiple bids places, marked with *):

cooley llp (LA)
Arnold & Porter (LA)
MoFo (LA)
Latham (LA)*
Gibson (LA/OC)*
Jones Day (LA/OC)
Paul Hastings (LA/OC)
Akin Gump (LA)
Gibson (LA)*
Jenner & Block (LA)
S&C (LA)
Sheppard Mullin (LA)
Sidley Austin (LA)
OMM (LA)
Proskauer (LA)
WilmerHale (LA)
Goodwin Procter (Bos)
Ropes (Bos)
OMM (Century City)
foley hoag (Bos)
OMM (OC)
WilmerHale (Bos)
Milbank (LA)
Skadden (LA)
Kirkland (LA)
K&L (LA)
Pillsbury (LA)
Simpson Thatcher (LA)
Dechert (LA/OC)
Irell (OC)
Latham (OC)*
Sheppard Mullin (OC)
Irell (Century City)
Munger (LA)
Hogan Lovell (LA)
Winston & Strawn (LA)
Sheppard Mullin (Century City)