2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[jkpolk]

If you had a low 3.6x and wanted Big DC and could only put Hogan or Latham in your top 5, what one would you go with?

Personally, Latham, but I think both are really good places to end up.

[Anonymous User]

If you had a low 3.6x and wanted Big DC and could only put Hogan or Latham in your top 5, what one would you go with?

Latham. What the earlier poster said about hogan having an unusually small 2014 SA class was true... But even still, Latham is the better play I think. With that said, are you female, URM, Good WE? If so, a low 3.6 should bid both.

Non diverse, <1.5 years management consulting

[Anonymous User]

Latham DC is NOT law review level snobby from UVA.

Also, for the 3.51 bid list, I think you're being a bit too aggressive with your NYC backups, particularly for the top 10 (where you might get lottery selections).

If you really want to bid DPW, STB, Sullcrom, put them at the bottom.

3.51 anon here


Lots of info from everyone thanks!

5ky, what NY firms would you suggest I put in my top 10?

[Yardbird]

This is a completely different topic, but are 12/26 people really not happy with their summer jobs?

[Anonymous User]

To the 3.51 male non-URM:

I would seriously reconsider giving Crowell & Moring DC your top spot. It's hard not to have blinders on at this stage when you're trying to land a summer associate position first and foremost, but C&M (not just their DC office) treated some graduating 3Ls very badly. Donovan may have more information on the firm if you ask and he may not tell you to take them off your list entirely, so get a second opinion.

3.51 anon here

What do you mean? How did they treat them? I haven't heard.

[Anonymous User]

To the 3.51 male non-URM:

I would seriously reconsider giving Crowell & Moring DC your top spot. It's hard not to have blinders on at this stage when you're trying to land a summer associate position first and foremost, but C&M (not just their DC office) treated some graduating 3Ls very badly. Donovan may have more information on the firm if you ask and he may not tell you to take them off your list entirely, so get a second opinion.

3.51 anon here

What do you mean? How did they treat them? I haven't heard.

Again, you should reach out to Donovan because he may know more than I do, but the firm's NY office made no-offers and 2015/2016 deferrals last summer, and the DC office made 1 no-offer. I should have clarified that most of the bad things I've heard about Crowell came out of their NY office and perhaps the DC office is a lot more stable because that's their HQ but you should still talk to Donovan about putting it number 1.

[Anonymous User]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

[Anonymous User]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

[daleearnhardt123]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

Agreed. You're competitive, but note that Skadden's DC office isn't terribly large. I also don't believe there's a UVA summer there this year. You'll *probably* get the screener with that GPA, but it's an uphill battle--as is DC generally.

[kingjones59]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

Agreed. You're competitive, but note that Skadden's DC office isn't terribly large. I also don't believe there's a UVA summer there this year. You'll *probably* get the screener with that GPA, but it's an uphill battle--as is DC generally.

According to NALP they are hiring 20 SAs for that office this year and there are 14 current UVA Law associates. Do not know anything about their SA makeup this year though, but 14 UVA associates in a DC office has to be near the higher end (latham has 16)

[5ky]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

Agreed. You're competitive, but note that Skadden's DC office isn't terribly large. I also don't believe there's a UVA summer there this year. You'll *probably* get the screener with that GPA, but it's an uphill battle--as is DC generally.

Again, whether or not a firm has UVA students in 1, 2 even 3 summer classes in a row means almost nothing.

[Anonymous User]

Again, whether or not a firm has UVA students in 1, 2 even 3 summer classes in a row means almost nothing.

Indeed. And Skadden would like more UVA students in its classes.

[daleearnhardt123]

Again, whether or not a firm has UVA students in 1, 2 even 3 summer classes in a row means almost nothing.

Indeed. And Skadden would like more UVA students in its classes.

The point of my observation was not that Skadden DC can't be had. It was that 1. There is no good "proxy" for what type of resume you'd want, insofar as a rising 3L that is there right now would be a good (albeit quick-and-dirty) proxy, and 2. It's a reminder that the offices of some of the top Vault firms can be really difficult to get. I'm pretty certain there was no shortage of 3.6 types who would've taken a spot there if they could've. For someone whose especially risk-averse, this is just a reminder that you should bid accordingly.

With that said, a 3.6 from UVA is almost certainly in the running for Skadden DC.

[Anonymous User]

Off topics, but if you're over a 3.55 or so, your bid list won't matter all that much. You're going to get mostly pre-selects. Generally, pre-selects > lottery unless you really like a certain firm more than others. You just need to have 20 or so firms that are likely to preselect you.

If your grades are bad, your bid list is much more important. You won't get many preselects so it comes down to the lottery. Plan your top 10 extensively. Now's the time to try to make connections.

[Anonymous User]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

Agreed. You're competitive, but note that Skadden's DC office isn't terribly large. I also don't believe there's a UVA summer there this year. You'll *probably* get the screener with that GPA, but it's an uphill battle--as is DC generally.

Again, whether or not a firm has UVA students in 1, 2 even 3 summer classes in a row means almost nothing.

Hiring partners are much more telling. Tie always goes to the alma-matter. When offices hardly have any UVA people in their classes, more times than not it's there's no UVA hiring partners.

[Anonymous User]

Again, whether or not a firm has UVA students in 1, 2 even 3 summer classes in a row means almost nothing.

Indeed. And Skadden would like more UVA students in its classes.

The point of my observation was not that Skadden DC can't be had. It was that 1. There is no good "proxy" for what type of resume you'd want, insofar as a rising 3L that is there right now would be a good (albeit quick-and-dirty) proxy, and 2. It's a reminder that the offices of some of the top Vault firms can be really difficult to get. I'm pretty certain there was no shortage of 3.6 types who would've taken a spot there if they could've. For someone whose especially risk-averse, this is just a reminder that you should bid accordingly.

With that said, a 3.6 from UVA is almost certainly in the running for Skadden DC.

Satellite offices in general are crapshoots. People have to stop focusing on the name and location, and start focusing on the practice group. You're ultimately working for a group of people in a practice group. The fact your paycheck says a certain name is arbitrary in comparison with the reputation of the practice group you're working for. Ultimately, you're working for Tom, Ted and Jane in Group XYZ more than you're working for Skadden.

[daleearnhardt123]

Seriously? You're advising rising 2Ls to compile their bids based on partners X, Y, and Z in practice group W ? This is crazy.

[Anonymous User]

What are the general guidelines for ULTRA conservative bidding for someone slightly above median (3.3-3.4)? Should I ignore band 1's and band 2 (broad and standards)?

[ClerkAdvisor]

3.6X anon from above. Any insight on Skadden DC - what is the current makeup of their class? More/less competitive than Latham DC? 3.6X have a decent shot if they can get in the room?

That's definitely within range. DC is most people's holy grail at UVA, but not necessarily elsewhere. The reason why the DC firms are so competitive for UVA is because UVA students all bid them, and they're not going to have a class of 100% UVA.

Agreed. You're competitive, but note that Skadden's DC office isn't terribly large. I also don't believe there's a UVA summer there this year. You'll *probably* get the screener with that GPA, but it's an uphill battle--as is DC generally.

Huh? The Skadden DC office is huge. It's Skadden's 2d largest office, has around 300 attorneys, and is one of the ten largest law offices in DC.

[ClerkAdvisor]

Satellite offices in general are crapshoots. People have to stop focusing on the name and location, and start focusing on the practice group. You're ultimately working for a group of people in a practice group. The fact your paycheck says a certain name is arbitrary in comparison with the reputation of the practice group you're working for. Ultimately, you're working for Tom, Ted and Jane in Group XYZ more than you're working for Skadden.

Skadden DC is not really a 'satellite office,' especially considering that it's one of the largest offices in DC. And while it's helpful to focus on practice groups, it's difficult for most rising 2L's to have any sense of practice groups beyond lit versus transactional. If you don't have a good sense of what you want to do, then it's not a bad plan to go to an office like Skadden DC that has a number of strong practice groups.

[playpowerball]

Whats the best way to convey an interest in transactional work on my cover letter if I don't really have any substantive background in business? Would it be ok to say i'll be taking business related classes next semester?

[5ky]

Whats the best way to convey an interest in transactional work on my cover letter if I don't really have any substantive background in business? Would it be ok to say i'll be taking business related classes next semester?

I went back and read some of my old cover letters that I shotgunned out. They are pretty bad. But I started with trying to tie in some UG activities and coursework as to why I was interested in corporate and then said something along the lines of "and I plan to further explore this by taking X, Y and Z this upcoming fall/year."

It was a tough pitch to make, though. I had zero exposure to corporate/business stuff.

[Anonymous User]

I have been putting together my bid list on my own but decided to check here and see how others were approaching it. Like just about everyone here, I'd like to work for a firm in New York or DC this summer. The gist of this thread seems to be:

1. Check the info given out by career services and target firms in whatever "band" you fall into.
2. Unless your GPA is pretty stellar, prefer to interview with firms that take larger summer associate classes.
3. There are no guarantees, and research into employers that won't be at OGI is probably called for. This is doubly true if:
(a) You have below a 3.5 and/or
(b) Without significant previous WE and/or
(c) Non-URM
4. Try to interview like a champ.
5. Be prepared to play up whatever connections you have to the market you are targetting. This isn't as critical for NY and DC, but still needs to be addressed at some point.
6. Network whenever possible.

At any rate, I have a few questions. For reference, my GPA is 3.29.

First, what is the strategy on bidding on a "reach"? Career services lists firms with broad GPA ranges, so maybe I have a shot. To be honest, I feel like I'll be a reach just about anywhere, given the below-median grades.

Second, what effect does working in a smaller market for the summer have on endgame placement? I'm working at home this summer (medium-sized market in the Midwest). Assuming nothing from the big markets plays out from OGI, would working there again or in another city impact my chances of landing a job in DC or NY after school? I improved my grades pretty dramatically from fall to spring semester, so I feel like my GPA will be more palatable for firms when all is said and done, but we'll see how that plays out.

[sprezz]

it's not that working in a smaller market is a red flag for NY/DC employers, it's that most of those jobs in NYC/DC are being filled by people who worked in that exact job 2L summer. so working in the smaller market 2L summer mostly works against you to the extent that it means you'd have to do 3L hustling to get into the NYC/DC market, and 3L hustling is way harder than doing it 2L.

[jkpolk]

First, what is the strategy on bidding on a "reach"? Career services lists firms with broad GPA ranges, so maybe I have a shot. To be honest, I feel like I'll be a reach just about anywhere, given the below-median grades.

The hard truth is that's a tough place to be. Don't bid any firms that have not hired your GPA at some point in the last 5 years. It's always possible you could be the first, but it's a much better play to bid your home-market instead.

If a firm has hired your GPA in the past, you have to decide how strong a candidate you are for that firm. If you feel like you are a strong candidate/good fit, you should tend to bid the firm lower because then, if you do get a pre-select, you aren't burning your valuable lottery picks.

If you are dead set on NY/DC, and you don't bid your home market, it's entirely realistic that you'll have <10 interviews. Not deal-breaking at all, totally possible to convert that, just be prepared. That's why people say mass-mail, go to receptions, etc - especially if you're a candidate who is going to have fewer than max interview slots (i.e. not 3.6+, not LR, not URM), ideally that hustle will increase the number of screening interviews you'll have.