NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[homestyle28]

3.7...would like to stay in Chicago if possible, but getting dat jerb is most important and I have a ton of personal ties to East Coast (will probably go back eventually), so planning on bidding NYC pretty heavily and then mass-mailing the Chicago firms. Also want to go transactional (interested in tax which I realize I may not get).

1. Weil Gotshal
2. Simpson Thacher
3. Paul Weiss
4. Kirkland -- Chicago
5. Proskauer Rose
6. Cadwalader
7. Milbank Tweed
8. Davis Polk
9. Skadden -- NYC
10. Linklaters

Any thoughts on this list much appreciated, also not sure about the bid NYC/mass-mail Chicago strategy, OCS seemed to think it was an okay strategy, but that's OCS...

Weil was available at 18 last year FWIW.

If you want to stay in Chicago, bid more Chicago in your top 10.

Yup. I'd flip your thinking and mass mail NYC, I think a 3.7 would get you a lot of looks there, while the same might not be true in Chicago.

[bk1]

Thanks for all this help.

3.8, targeting Chicago.

Sidley
Latham
Kirkland
Jones Day
Skadden
McDermott
Winston
Bartlit
McGuireWoods
Locke Lord
Drinker (CHI)
Morgan Lewis
K&L Gates
Baker
Greenberg

No Boutiques? Grippo, Barack? FWIW I got the impression last year that Drinker hates people thinking of them as a safety firm.

K&L Gates and Baker McKenzie will both go fast and I doubt you'll pick them up that low. Bartlit as in Bartlit Beck? Looking at their attorney bios, basically everyone is a CoA or SCOTUS clerk, so I'm not sure how wise a bid that one is. You can probably move Kirkland and Latham down a few spots.

Unless they all of a sudden changed, Bartlett Beck does not even take SAs. But yes, anon, if you care about Chicago and are at least interested in litigation then the boutiques should be on your list (Jenner too).

[bk1]

To everyone: focusing on fit isn't necessarily the best thing unless you have a sky high GPA. It can be tough even getting an offer (especially in NOTNYC). Honestly focus on getting interviews and offers first and then get picky about fit if you have the option.

[Icculus]

To everyone: focusing on fit isn't necessarily the best thing unless you have a sky high GPA. It can be tough even getting an offer (especially in NOTNYC). Honestly focus on getting interviews and offers first and then get picky about fit if you have the option.

See Icculus supra.

[Anonymous User]

3.7...would like to stay in Chicago if possible, but getting dat jerb is most important and I have a ton of personal ties to East Coast (will probably go back eventually), so planning on bidding NYC pretty heavily and then mass-mailing the Chicago firms. Also want to go transactional (interested in tax which I realize I may not get).

1. Weil Gotshal
2. Simpson Thacher
3. Paul Weiss
4. Kirkland -- Chicago
5. Proskauer Rose
6. Cadwalader
7. Milbank Tweed
8. Davis Polk
9. Skadden -- NYC
10. Linklaters

Any thoughts on this list much appreciated, also not sure about the bid NYC/mass-mail Chicago strategy, OCS seemed to think it was an okay strategy, but that's OCS...

Weil was available at 18 last year FWIW.

If you want to stay in Chicago, bid more Chicago in your top 10.

Yup. I'd flip your thinking and mass mail NYC, I think a 3.7 would get you a lot of looks there, while the same might not be true in Chicago.

Anon OP here, thanks for the advice, will do on incorporating some more Chicago firms. More of a general question, but how much does a firm's prestige/Vault ranking affect exit options down the road? All other things being equal, do people exiting a more regional firm like Katten after 5-6 years have similar options to those exiting a firm that might be more nationally known like Kirkland or a big NYC firm? My guess would be that someone exiting a V10 has more options than someone exiting a V100, but I'm not completely sure on that and I know that a lot of exit opportunities can happen because of client relationships and etc.

Definitely understand that maxing out chances at offers is the top priority right now, but also trying to think a little about future career options as well.

[bk1]

To everyone: focusing on fit isn't necessarily the best thing unless you have a sky high GPA. It can be tough even getting an offer (especially in NOTNYC). Honestly focus on getting interviews and offers first and then get picky about fit if you have the option.

See Icculus supra.

Touché. I saw a giant page of bidlists and was all "lol not scrolling through all that."

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Going to make a lot of revisions to this, actually.

[Georgia Avenue]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Also, with the talk about fit - keep things in perspective. If you have the ability to choose between 4-5 firms, that's great. Chances are you probably won't. A good outcome ITE in non-NYC markets especially, is a handful of callbacks and 1-3 offers.

[Georgia Avenue]

Anon OP here, thanks for the advice, will do on incorporating some more Chicago firms. More of a general question, but how much does a firm's prestige/Vault ranking affect exit options down the road? All other things being equal, do people exiting a more regional firm like Katten after 5-6 years have similar options to those exiting a firm that might be more nationally known like Kirkland or a big NYC firm? My guess would be that someone exiting a V10 has more options than someone exiting a V100, but I'm not completely sure on that and I know that a lot of exit opportunities can happen because of client relationships and etc.

Definitely understand that maxing out chances at offers is the top priority right now, but also trying to think a little about future career options as well.

Depends on the practice and where you want to exit to. Someone exiting from Katten Chicago's RE group will probably have better exit options in Chicago, all things considered, than someone coming out of, say, Sidley NY's RE group.

[Samara]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Also, with the talk about fit - keep things in perspective. If you have the ability to choose between 4-5 firms, that's great. Chances are you probably won't. A good outcome ITE in non-NYC markets especially, is a handful of callbacks and 1-3 offers.

I'm not sure I understand the fit argument that is being made. If you are ranking bids between 5 firms of equal GPA ranges, are you saying that fit still shouldn't play into how you rank them? I get not wasting a bid on Sidley (above) but I'm not sure what the argument is beyond that. What factors beyond GPA and practice area should play into our rankings?

[Georgia Avenue]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Also, with the talk about fit - keep things in perspective. If you have the ability to choose between 4-5 firms, that's great. Chances are you probably won't. A good outcome ITE in non-NYC markets especially, is a handful of callbacks and 1-3 offers.

I'm not sure I understand the fit argument that is being made. If you are ranking bids between 5 firms of equal GPA ranges, are you saying that fit still shouldn't play into how you rank them? I get not wasting a bid on Sidley (above) but I'm not sure what the argument is beyond that. What factors beyond GPA and practice area should play into our rankings?

Fit should take a backseat to which firm will be more likely to give you an offer - so class sizes, callback-to-offer ratio if you can find it somewhere (there are a few threads on TLS about it), which firm will still probably be around at the spot you bid them at, etc. Besides, fit isn't something you can really judge well until the callback stage, and even then, you can only base it on what they show you.

[Anonymous User]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Thank you. Is Kirkland also a waste of a bid? I obviously realized that they were both improbable, but I guess I'm having trouble balancing class sizes with GPA ranges.

[Georgia Avenue]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Thank you. Is Kirkland also a waste of a bid? I obviously realized that they were both improbable, but I guess I'm having trouble balancing class sizes with GPA ranges.

Depends. What do you want to do? If it's litigation, then yeah probably. But at least with K&E you can pick them up a bit later down your bid list.

[Samara]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Also, with the talk about fit - keep things in perspective. If you have the ability to choose between 4-5 firms, that's great. Chances are you probably won't. A good outcome ITE in non-NYC markets especially, is a handful of callbacks and 1-3 offers.

I'm not sure I understand the fit argument that is being made. If you are ranking bids between 5 firms of equal GPA ranges, are you saying that fit still shouldn't play into how you rank them? I get not wasting a bid on Sidley (above) but I'm not sure what the argument is beyond that. What factors beyond GPA and practice area should play into our rankings?

Fit should take a backseat to which firm will be more likely to give you an offer - so class sizes, callback-to-offer ratio if you can find it somewhere (there are a few threads on TLS about it), which firm will still probably be around at the spot you bid them at, etc. Besides, fit isn't something you can really judge well until the callback stage, and even then, you can only base it on what they show you.

Ah, I see. Link for the callback-to-offer ratio threads?

[homestyle28]

You're not getting Sidley with a 3.5. Don't waste your #1 bid.

Also, with the talk about fit - keep things in perspective. If you have the ability to choose between 4-5 firms, that's great. Chances are you probably won't. A good outcome ITE in non-NYC markets especially, is a handful of callbacks and 1-3 offers.

I'm not sure I understand the fit argument that is being made. If you are ranking bids between 5 firms of equal GPA ranges, are you saying that fit still shouldn't play into how you rank them? I get not wasting a bid on Sidley (above) but I'm not sure what the argument is beyond that. What factors beyond GPA and practice area should play into our rankings?

While I think fit matters more than others here, I would say it matters more if you are an outlier in your background/experience. I'm married, have a kid and a shitton of humanities degrees. All of that made my interviews with K&E and Latham awkward regardless of my numbers. Firms with a rep for being a bit broader went better. I'd make it like my 3rd or 4th criteria in evaluating firms.

[crumpetsandtea]

Does anyone know what to do on Symplicity if the firm says "Unofficial law school transcript; writing sample" under "Additional Documents" but there is no dropdown menu to choose a transcript/writing sample, and it lets me bid with just my resume uploaded?

Does that mean just to have my transcript and writing sample prepared for the interview?

[Icculus]

Does anyone know what to do on Symplicity if the firm says "Unofficial law school transcript; writing sample" under "Additional Documents" but there is no dropdown menu to choose a transcript/writing sample, and it lets me bid with just my resume uploaded?

Does that mean just to have my transcript and writing sample prepared for the interview?

They want you to bring those docs to the interviews. Can't upload a transcript since firms can't see your grades until the interview.

Generally you need to bring an unofficial transcript to every interview and some firms ask for a writing sample. Also, bring a resume with your gpa to every interview as well.

[Icculus]

To everyone: focusing on fit isn't necessarily the best thing unless you have a sky high GPA. It can be tough even getting an offer (especially in NOTNYC). Honestly focus on getting interviews and offers first and then get picky about fit if you have the option.

See Icculus supra.

Touché. I saw a giant page of bidlists and was all "lol not scrolling through all that."

Really I figured this was the only way I would ever be cited.

[crumpetsandtea]

Does anyone know what to do on Symplicity if the firm says "Unofficial law school transcript; writing sample" under "Additional Documents" but there is no dropdown menu to choose a transcript/writing sample, and it lets me bid with just my resume uploaded?

Does that mean just to have my transcript and writing sample prepared for the interview?

They want you to bring those docs to the interviews. Can't upload a transcript since firms can't see your grades until the interview.

Generally you need to bring an unofficial transcript to every interview and some firms ask for a writing sample. Also, bring a resume with your gpa to every interview as well.

Sorry I didn't specify, this is for CCBA, not OCI, so they'll know our GPA beforehand. Most of the other firms have options to upload a CL/Writing Sample/Transcript and have dropdown menus, but this firm didn't.

I sorta figured it meant "Bring to interview" but I just wanted to make sure I didn't look like an idiot by bidding wrong (:

[Icculus]

Does anyone know what to do on Symplicity if the firm says "Unofficial law school transcript; writing sample" under "Additional Documents" but there is no dropdown menu to choose a transcript/writing sample, and it lets me bid with just my resume uploaded?

Does that mean just to have my transcript and writing sample prepared for the interview?

They want you to bring those docs to the interviews. Can't upload a transcript since firms can't see your grades until the interview.

Generally you need to bring an unofficial transcript to every interview and some firms ask for a writing sample. Also, bring a resume with your gpa to every interview as well.

Sorry I didn't specify, this is for CCBA, not OCI, so they'll know our GPA beforehand. Most of the other firms have options to upload a CL/Writing Sample/Transcript and have dropdown menus, but this firm didn't.

I sorta figured it meant "Bring to interview" but I just wanted to make sure I didn't look like an idiot by bidding wrong (:

nvm then, I have no idea.

[crumpetsandtea]

nvm then, I have no idea.

You were right - once I started to bid on more, I realized NONE of them required more than a resume. No cover letter writing for me tonight. I was just used to the BADCF/OTIP format where different firms required different things and you had to upload them in order to be able to even bid on that firm.

[Anonymous User]

This is frustrating I just called up the OCS to ask when we would be able to see the number of interview slots for each participating firm.
After being passed from one person to another, I was connected to a person with a lovely voice asked why I needed the info. Supressing my shock, I replied that the info could help me decide on my bidding order, and I was told, “that really shouln’t affect your decision to bid on the firm. We don’t release that information over the phone, and besides, you’ll know that information when bidding opens.”
I am so glad you rising 3L’s warned us about this. Fucking useless. To think I came here because I heard the OCSD was awesome.

I guess we’ll just have to rely on NALP projected class sizes, and apply a multiple.

[homestyle28]

This is frustrating I just called up the OCS to ask when we would be able to see the number of interview slots for each participating firm.
After being passed from one person to another, I was connected to a person with a lovely voice asked why I needed the info. Supressing my shock, I replied that the info could help me decide on my bidding order, and I was told, “that really shouln’t affect your decision to bid on the firm. We don’t release that information over the phone, and besides, you’ll know that information when bidding opens.”
I am so glad you rising 3L’s warned us about this. Fucking useless. To think I came here because I heard the OCSD was awesome.

I guess we’ll just have to rely on NALP projected class sizes, and apply a multiple.

take breath, friend. You'll have (and spend) plenty of time tweaking your list once bidding opens. You know Sidley, K&E, etc will have a lot of slots and the boutiques will have fewer, that's really enough to get started.

[Kikero]

For firms which don't indicate that they don't take multiple interviews, do you interview with the same firm twice for different locations, or do you just let them know that you're interested in another branch?

Also, is it a bad idea regardless to indicate your willingness to go to one of multiple markets? I'm a little worried because almost all of the firms from my secondary market targets also have Chicago offices and so I feel like I'm losing the advantage of having secondaries with ties because they are sort of taking away from my available Chicago firms.

[lgleye]

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