Consulting - the end of a legal career? Forum

[motiontodismiss]

The top market equivalent is 125+10 (McKinsey) to 140+40 (Accenture) for MBA new hires (a lot of firms in big consulting e.g. Deloitte and the like seem to fall in between). But only for starting. Obviously as the person upthread said it's +/- a few thousand depending on your background.

Those numbers are wrong and also miss a bunch of elements in the compensation package. McK total comp is much much higher than the number you are providing. And it is not +/- any money depending on your background... at least not at McK. Base pay is the same when you start. Bonuses will vary at the end of year 1 depending on performance.

Maybe the specific firm is wrong, but my numbers seem to be in the ballpark:
http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... u-partner/

110+20+10 on the lower end and 140+40+20 on the upper end. Bonuses between 20 and 40.

Your McK numbers specifically are wrong. That general page with the general numbers is correctly in the ballpark. MBB operates at the high end of that range. Also, background does not impact starting salary or your performance bonus.

If anyone would like to have me answer questions about being a consultant, I am happy to. Feel free to PM me as well.

I don't remember where specifically I read it but there was an article I read where I found those numbers. McKinsey in particular seemed to pay the lowest and Accenture the highest. I think BCG and Deloitte were the next highest.

[bdubs]

I don't remember where specifically I read it but there was an article I read where I found those numbers. McKinsey in particular seemed to pay the lowest and Accenture the highest. I think BCG and Deloitte were the next highest.

Are you referring to legal recruiting specifically? For MBA/PhD those #s and rankings are definitely wrong. McKinsey and Bain certainly pay more than Deloitte or Accenture to an average candidate, I think you're right that BCG falls in the middle though. It is possible that the other firms (Accenture) have specific legally focused groups that try to poach from biglaw and pay closer to lockstep, but that would be more of an exception than a norm.

[motiontodismiss]

I don't remember where specifically I read it but there was an article I read where I found those numbers. McKinsey in particular seemed to pay the lowest and Accenture the highest. I think BCG and Deloitte were the next highest.

Are you referring to legal recruiting specifically? For MBA/PhD those #s and rankings are definitely wrong. McKinsey and Bain certainly pay more than Deloitte or Accenture to an average candidate, I think you're right that BCG falls in the middle though. It is possible that the other firms (Accenture) have specific legally focused groups that try to poach from biglaw and pay closer to lockstep, but that would be more of an exception than a norm.

No, I was talking about starting pay for MBAs. I could have sworn I saw something like that, either on TopMBA or Consulting Magazine or something similar. I just can't find it.

It's absolutely possible I'm just seeing things.

[Voyager]

I work at McKinsey as an associate. We have a legal practice group. Like all practice groups they are paid the same as everyone else. Same compensation schedule. And the compensation you listed for McKinsey is way off.

[jms1987]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

[HITeacher2]

http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... -post-mba/

There's the numbers for this year. To save you the time

Bain Total Comp - $184k + 7.8k for retirement
BCG Total Comp - $197k + $9k for retirement
McKinsey - $187k + $19k for retirement

I'm not sure about the other two, but I know the McKinsey bonus slides based on your base comp. So if your base comp is $10k higher than your peers than your bonus is $10k lower so everybody is compensated in lock-step. The meritocracy comes AFTER the first year with the up-or-out policy.

[Voyager]

Compensation is broken into base, performance bonus and retirement. Your performance bonus may vary by quite a bit.

[Voyager]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

Quite a lot, it seemed to me. I think McKinsey only recruits on a very few number of law school campuses, for example.

At the training program I was at, graduate degrees from Harvard, MIT, Oxford, etc... were the norm. Everyone was fairly impressive in their own way... but the school pedigree (normally accompanied by honors) was standard. I met doctors, engineers, lawyers, economists, mathematicians, even a history PhD.

[tipler4213]

Just putting this thread under my posts because it interests me

[glewz]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

Berkeley was the only school at final rounds for analyst position (McKinsey NY) - 1 person. Everyone else ivy league.

[Voyager]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

Berkeley was the only school at final rounds for analyst position (McKinsey NY) - 1 person. Everyone else ivy league.

Oh, you said undergrad? They are not going to care as much about undergrad once you have your grad degree from a pedrigeed place.

[motiontodismiss]

http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... -post-mba/

There's the numbers for this year. To save you the time

Bain Total Comp - $184k + 7.8k for retirement
BCG Total Comp - $197k + $9k for retirement
McKinsey - $187k + $19k for retirement

I'm not sure about the other two, but I know the McKinsey bonus slides based on your base comp. So if your base comp is $10k higher than your peers than your bonus is $10k lower so everybody is compensated in lock-step. The meritocracy comes AFTER the first year with the up-or-out policy.

Screw biglaw. I'm going MBA. Big consulting FTW (and that total comp number doesn't account for the 100k+ airline miles, which depending on the frequent flyer program can be worth a lot, and the 150 days' worth of hotel points, not to mention all those credit card rewards).

[glewz]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

Berkeley was the only school at final rounds for analyst position (McKinsey NY) - 1 person. Everyone else ivy league.

Oh, you said undergrad? They are not going to care as much about undergrad once you have your grad degree from a pedrigeed place.

I agree, sorry now that I think about the context, my comment was kind of irrelevant to his question.

[shotsfired12]

redacted.

[ShiftyPig]

If you are outside the T-14 ie. GW, is there any way to get MBB consulting post JD?

I'm going to cop out and say it depends on your individual circumstance:

Problem 1: If you don't have work experience, you have no chance. Period. Summer jobs don't count.

Problem 2: A lot of "that-level" consulting firms require a 3.5 GPA. If you have it, cool... but either way, you're up against a bunch of MBA's who have grade inflation on their side.

Problem 3: These gigs get filled by networking. Is MBB coming to your law school? F**k no. Are they going to b-schools? Oh yeah.

The odds of you getting big law are much better than getting MBB consulting, so figure in your mind what those odds are and go down from there.

Edit to add: also, case interviewing. You'll want to do a lot of research on that if you want a prayer of making it past the 10 minute mark in an interview.

[etlien]

How much, if at all, does undergrad prestige matter in getting a job with a major consulting group? I've been looking into it lately and I've heard your UG matters a lot.

Berkeley was the only school at final rounds for analyst position (McKinsey NY) - 1 person. Everyone else ivy league.

Oh, you said undergrad? They are not going to care as much about undergrad once you have your grad degree from a pedrigeed place.

I agree, sorry now that I think about the context, my comment was kind of irrelevant to his question.

What about a T-14 JD with a non-HYP ivy UG, how would this be looked upon/would the JD or the UG be more favourably viewed?

[Anonymous User]

i am first year consultant. i took the lsat and considered law school before going the business route, but i am glad i didnt do it. for consulting, a JD wont necessarily make you a sure candidate, but it wont hurt. if you want to work at a firm such as McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Oliver Wyman, Monitor, or in particular groups of firms like Parthenon, Accenture, IBM, etc (although overall these kinds of firms are lower in terms of "prestige" when compared to MBB, they have some groups that are highly noted and at same caliber as MBB), you will most likely need a JD from a top university with good grades. the problem for law students is that most of them lack any work experience, typically have unsound undergraduate degrees for consulting (consulting firms want engineers, hard sciences, accounting/finance/business, mathematics, stats backgrounds) and they are competing for associate positions with MBA graduates. this puts them at a huge disadvantage because the MBA grads typically come from top universities, and have quality backgrounds/work exp. however, at my firm (Deloitte), we have many JDs....but they are all graduates of top programs (top 25 law schools), and many have a MBA coupled. if you attend a t14, you have a good shot at getting into a good firm, most partners/principals view t14 very highly...however, i am not sure if going to a t14 will necessarily open doors to MBB. MBB is incredibly hard to break into, they are the cream of the crop when it comes to consulting. many important people in politics, business, society have worked there. in addition, MBB consultants are compensated very well, probably better than big law lawyers. i know at BCG, if you stick there fore 10 years, you are guaranteed $1MM in comp....however making it there for 10 years is hard as hell. most if not all consulting firms follow an up and out culture. in addition, consultants at top firms have incredible exit opportunities. most CFOs and high finance executives come from big4 backgrounds, many CEOs/COOs/etc. have worked at MBB. keep in mind you will be working a high stressful job, long hours...comparable to big law. consulting firms have to see value in you, the partner needs to be convinced you will contribute to their bottom line. and for those looking into ibanking, if you want to work at a top MM shop or BB, you almost have to come from a t14. there are back doors...not easy though.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

I know a guy at wachtell + YLS who couldnt get into mbb w/o going to hbs first, but i know another guy from KE who got into McK after 2yrs practicing law. he was summa at UofM in engineering prior to LS though -- incredibly smart.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

I know a guy at wachtell + YLS who couldnt get into mbb w/o going to hbs first, but i know another guy from KE who got into McK after 2yrs practicing law. he was summa at UofM in engineering prior to LS though -- incredibly smart.

Former analyst here at one the mentioned firms. It's possible but you need to 1. know people to refer you 2. have an excellent school on your resume 3. rock the case interviews (<10% people with 1 and 2 make it past the cases). btw consulting is not necessarily the dream you might think it is. Most of my friends from undergrad went to MBB or top IBD. Almost all have burned out / left to pursue more engaging opportunities. My best friend based out of NY spent six weeks straight in Iowa, her bf ended up leaving her for a girl in NYC. At my former firm, 90% of people i started with are no longer there. For the top talent out of my acquaintances, entrepreneurship is the way to go.

That said im happy to PM people who are interested in finding out more about finance/consulting and the process for breaking in.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

I know a guy at wachtell + YLS who couldnt get into mbb w/o going to hbs first, but i know another guy from KE who got into McK after 2yrs practicing law. he was summa at UofM in engineering prior to LS though -- incredibly smart.

Former analyst here at one the mentioned firms. It's possible but you need to 1. know people to refer you 2. have an excellent school on your resume 3. rock the case interviews (<10% people with 1 and 2 make it past the cases). btw consulting is not necessarily the dream you might think it is. Most of my friends from undergrad went to MBB or top IBD. Almost all have burned out / left to pursue more engaging opportunities. My best friend based out of NY spent six weeks straight in Iowa, her bf ended up leaving her for a girl in NYC. At my former firm, 90% of people i started with are no longer there. For the top talent out of my acquaintances, entrepreneurship is the way to go.

That said im happy to PM people who are interested in finding out more about finance/consulting and the process for breaking in.

Thanks for the advice. Since I'm technically qualified by having a JD, would going back for an MBA be a waste of time and money? I really want to use consulting as a potential gateway into the business side of things at a F500 or maybe to do VC. Considering these long term goals would getting an MBA make more sense? My main concern about going for the MBA is that I would hate to spend over 150K plus lose two years of salary and still not be able to break into a top consulting firm, which seems like a real possibility even assuming I get into one of the top MBA programs.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

I know a guy at wachtell + YLS who couldnt get into mbb w/o going to hbs first, but i know another guy from KE who got into McK after 2yrs practicing law. he was summa at UofM in engineering prior to LS though -- incredibly smart.

Former analyst here at one the mentioned firms. It's possible but you need to 1. know people to refer you 2. have an excellent school on your resume 3. rock the case interviews (<10% people with 1 and 2 make it past the cases). btw consulting is not necessarily the dream you might think it is. Most of my friends from undergrad went to MBB or top IBD. Almost all have burned out / left to pursue more engaging opportunities. My best friend based out of NY spent six weeks straight in Iowa, her bf ended up leaving her for a girl in NYC. At my former firm, 90% of people i started with are no longer there. For the top talent out of my acquaintances, entrepreneurship is the way to go.

That said im happy to PM people who are interested in finding out more about finance/consulting and the process for breaking in.

Sure it's tough work, but working 2100-2200 billable hours at a NY law firm is probably almost as bad. I'd love a PM since I'm preparing for a McK case interview.

[bdubs]

Anybody know about consulting opportunities for practicing lawyers? Does a corporate lawyer (M&A/PE) at a V15 with high grades (+law review) from a CCN have a chance at MBB? I would prefer to wait to make the jump until I've been at the firm for around 5 years assuming I can make it that long, would this amount of experience hurt/help my chances?

I know a guy at wachtell + YLS who couldnt get into mbb w/o going to hbs first, but i know another guy from KE who got into McK after 2yrs practicing law. he was summa at UofM in engineering prior to LS though -- incredibly smart.

Former analyst here at one the mentioned firms. It's possible but you need to 1. know people to refer you 2. have an excellent school on your resume 3. rock the case interviews (<10% people with 1 and 2 make it past the cases). btw consulting is not necessarily the dream you might think it is. Most of my friends from undergrad went to MBB or top IBD. Almost all have burned out / left to pursue more engaging opportunities. My best friend based out of NY spent six weeks straight in Iowa, her bf ended up leaving her for a girl in NYC. At my former firm, 90% of people i started with are no longer there. For the top talent out of my acquaintances, entrepreneurship is the way to go.

That said im happy to PM people who are interested in finding out more about finance/consulting and the process for breaking in.

Thanks for the advice. Since I'm technically qualified by having a JD, would going back for an MBA be a waste of time and money? I really want to use consulting as a potential gateway into the business side of things at a F500 or maybe to do VC. Considering these long term goals would getting an MBA make more sense? My main concern about going for the MBA is that I would hate to spend over 150K plus lose two years of salary and still not be able to break into a top consulting firm, which seems like a real possibility even assuming I get into one of the top MBA programs.

If you're going to a top b-school solely to get a job at MBB, then it is a huge risk and probably a waste of time. You should get an interview, take the aptitude tests, etc.. and if you get far (final round) but don't get an offer, then you can start thinking about the MBA.

[Anonymous User]

So, having a JD plus good credentials/law experience may give me a shot at getting initial interviews with MBB or other top consulting firms? I understand that from there killing the case interviews is a must. If they did decide to hire someone with 5 years of biglaw experience would I be looking at an associate (or consultant) position, or is there a possibility of coming in at the level above associate?

[bdubs]

So, having a JD plus good credentials/law experience may give me a shot at getting initial interviews with MBB or other top consulting firms? I understand that from there killing the case interviews is a must. If they did decide to hire someone with 5 years of biglaw experience would I be looking at an associate (or consultant) position, or is there a possibility of coming in at the level above associate?

The only way to know is to apply. I am guessing that it is highly dependent on your experience as an attorney and practice area. Since you have been working for 5 years they probably aren't going to want to hire you in as a general pool associate, you are an "experienced hire". No work in your field might mean no interview though.