V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

I just this question in another thread, but you would probably be best to answer. I apologize if this was asked on one of the 67 preceeding pages. Here was my post:

"This might be a stupid question, but is it better to go to a firm with a larger number of partners to associates, regarding partnership track. For example, if a firm has 80 partners to 50 associates, is this a firm that pushes associates out the door or one where the odds are in you favor in terms of making partner? I know it is a case by case type of a thing, but I was wondering if anyone could comment on this?"

[itbdvorm]

I just this question in another thread, but you would probably be best to answer. I apologize if this was asked on one of the 67 preceeding pages. Here was my post:

"This might be a stupid question, but is it better to go to a firm with a larger number of partners to associates, regarding partnership track. For example, if a firm has 80 partners to 50 associates, is this a firm that pushes associates out the door or one where the odds are in you favor in terms of making partner? I know it is a case by case type of a thing, but I was wondering if anyone could comment on this?"

honestly can't really speak to this. all depends on the firm i bet.

[anon168]

I just this question in another thread, but you would probably be best to answer. I apologize if this was asked on one of the 67 preceeding pages. Here was my post:

"This might be a stupid question, but is it better to go to a firm with a larger number of partners to associates, regarding partnership track. For example, if a firm has 80 partners to 50 associates, is this a firm that pushes associates out the door or one where the odds are in you favor in terms of making partner? I know it is a case by case type of a thing, but I was wondering if anyone could comment on this?"

honestly can't really speak to this. all depends on the firm i bet.

Let me take a crack at this.

For any 2L (or 3L) looking at firms post-graduation, and really itching to put on that brass ring, bear this in mind: amongst your typical biglaw firms, there is no such thing as a firm -- on an absolute basis -- that's easier or better at making partner. Leverage, billables, type of practice, etc. are all pretty much irrelevant when it comes to whether your chances of making partner at said firm are good or not.

Whether or not you make partner will depend on (1) your ability to kiss-ass, to kiss the right ass, and to kiss it well; (2) your ability as a lawyer; and (3) luck and happenstance.

In other words, making partner depends more on you, than it does with the structure or systemic idiosyncrasies of the firm.

Trying to read the tea leaves by looking at leverage is, well, just fucking stupid.

[roranoa]

In other words, making partner depends more on you, than it does with the structure or systemic idiosyncrasies of the firm.

This really resonates with me.

[Anonymous User]

I asked this in another thread, but wanted to get a specific opinion here as well. Is an actual bachelor's degree in science or engineering required to practice patent prosecution, or is it just the ability to pass the patent bar? For example, I have a bachelor's in finance and a minor in biology. This makes me eligible to take the patent bar, but obviously lacks the bachelor's in science. Does it make a difference?

[itbdvorm]

I asked this in another thread, but wanted to get a specific opinion here as well. Is an actual bachelor's degree in science or engineering required to practice patent prosecution, or is it just the ability to pass the patent bar? For example, I have a bachelor's in finance and a minor in biology. This makes me eligible to take the patent bar, but obviously lacks the bachelor's in science. Does it make a difference?

no idea. i don't think most top firms do patent prosecution but could be wrong.

[84651846190]

I asked this in another thread, but wanted to get a specific opinion here as well. Is an actual bachelor's degree in science or engineering required to practice patent prosecution, or is it just the ability to pass the patent bar? For example, I have a bachelor's in finance and a minor in biology. This makes me eligible to take the patent bar, but obviously lacks the bachelor's in science. Does it make a difference?

no idea. i don't think most top firms do patent prosecution but could be wrong.

This is correct. Top firms bill out at rates which are too high to compete with IP boutiques which do most of the patent prosecution work.

[Anonymous User]

I asked this in another thread, but wanted to get a specific opinion here as well. Is an actual bachelor's degree in science or engineering required to practice patent prosecution, or is it just the ability to pass the patent bar? For example, I have a bachelor's in finance and a minor in biology. This makes me eligible to take the patent bar, but obviously lacks the bachelor's in science. Does it make a difference?

no idea. i don't think most top firms do patent prosecution but could be wrong.

This is correct. Top firms bill out at rates which are too high to compete with IP boutiques which do most of the patent prosecution work.

If I just accepted an offer for a first-year associate at one of the largest patent boutique firms in the country in a major market with a very good national reputation (the firm is paying biglaw salary even though it is only about 200+ attorneys)...Will I be a competitive applicant for lateral positions in biglaw law firms after a few years? I have technical undergrad and advanced graduate degrees. My 1L grades from a T20 school were not very good to land me a biglaw opportunity for my 2L summer but since my first year, I was able to raise them up during 2L year and get published in several journals and books. Some large boutique firms have already told me to stay in touch with them in a few years about me lateraling over, but I was wondering if big law firms would be interested in me as well since my grades have improved and I have a job at a well-respected patent firm where I will get a lot of patent and trademark prosecution and litigation experience?

[The McRib Is Risen]

Do you recommend that applicants rub one out before a screener interview to make sure they're "in the zone"?

[Renne Walker]

Litigation firm Bickel & Brewer is offering its 2013 first-year associate class a base annual salary of $185,000, an increase of $10,000 over the firm’s current first-year associate base salary of $175,000. Historically, is this how industry salaries increase (as in lock-step)? Also, if a SA is hired at $160K and the new class receives a higher amount, historically how does that usually play out?

[20160810]

Litigation firm Bickel & Brewer is offering its 2013 first-year associate class a base annual salary of $185,000, an increase of $10,000 over the firm’s current first-year associate base salary of $175,000. Historically, is this how industry salaries increase (as in lock-step)? Also, if a SA is hired at $160K and the new class receives a higher amount, historically how does that usually play out?

In this situation the credited response is to storm into the managing partner's office--ideally while he's on the phone--with a pay stub in your hand and shout "Only 160?!? What is this bullshit!?!?!"

[84651846190]

I asked this in another thread, but wanted to get a specific opinion here as well. Is an actual bachelor's degree in science or engineering required to practice patent prosecution, or is it just the ability to pass the patent bar? For example, I have a bachelor's in finance and a minor in biology. This makes me eligible to take the patent bar, but obviously lacks the bachelor's in science. Does it make a difference?

no idea. i don't think most top firms do patent prosecution but could be wrong.

This is correct. Top firms bill out at rates which are too high to compete with IP boutiques which do most of the patent prosecution work.

If I just accepted an offer for a first-year associate at one of the largest patent boutique firms in the country in a major market with a very good national reputation (the firm is paying biglaw salary even though it is only about 200+ attorneys)...Will I be a competitive applicant for lateral positions in biglaw law firms after a few years? I have technical undergrad and advanced graduate degrees. My 1L grades from a T20 school were not very good to land me a biglaw opportunity for my 2L summer but since my first year, I was able to raise them up during 2L year and get published in several journals and books. Some large boutique firms have already told me to stay in touch with them in a few years about me lateraling over, but I was wondering if big law firms would be interested in me as well since my grades have improved and I have a job at a well-respected patent firm where I will get a lot of patent and trademark prosecution and litigation experience?

If you end up doing mostly prosecution work, you probably won't be as attractive to top firms as a lateral candidate, but I don't really see why you would want to lateral to a top firm in the first place. Your chance of making partner at a boutique is way higher than at a traditional megafirm and the hours would probably be better too.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks! I didnt know that about chances being better at a boutique. Not sure how much better my billables are because they are 1950. The only reason I was keeping lateral open was because of how everyone here keeps saying odds are hard to become partner. But I guess I am in a different situation than a lot of people because my firm bring an ip boutique. Thanks for your response!

[84651846190]

Thanks! I didnt know that about chances being better at a boutique. Not sure how much better my billables are because they are 1950. The only reason I was keeping lateral open was because of how everyone here keeps saying odds are hard to become partner. But I guess I am in a different situation than a lot of people because my firm bring an ip boutique. Thanks for your response!

I mean, partnership prospects will depend on which boutique you're at more than the mere fact that you're at a boutique and not a megafirm. I've heard, for example, that it's a lot easier to make partner at a firm like Finnegan that it is at a firm like Fish. But I would say that, on average, it's easier to make partner at an IP boutique than at a top megafirm.

[20160810]

Do you recommend that applicants rub one out before a screener interview to make sure they're "in the zone"?

Outed.

[Anonymous User]

In your experience at a V15, what sort of substantive things do first and second years do in litigation groups? For example, beyond doc review and discrete research, are they given the opportunity to try first drafts at discovery requests or non-dispositive motions?

[anon168]

In your experience at a V15, what sort of substantive things do first and second years do in litigation groups? For example, beyond doc review and discrete research, are they given the opportunity to try first drafts at discovery requests or non-dispositive motions?

If you're not doing that at a minimum, you need to be calling a HH.

[Anonymous User]

In your experience at a V15, what sort of substantive things do first and second years do in litigation groups? For example, beyond doc review and discrete research, are they given the opportunity to try first drafts at discovery requests or non-dispositive motions?

If you're not doing that at a minimum, you need to be calling a HH.

So it's not JUST doc review as a first year? That's good to know. What else do first and second years typically work on?

[Old Gregg]

In your experience at a V15, what sort of substantive things do first and second years do in litigation groups? For example, beyond doc review and discrete research, are they given the opportunity to try first drafts at discovery requests or non-dispositive motions?

If you're not doing that at a minimum, you need to be calling a HH.

So it's not JUST doc review as a first year? That's good to know. What else do first and second years typically work on?

Lol, no. This TLS meme that you're a doc review monkey at a big firm is nonsense. Just absolute nonsense.

[Anonymous User]

I'm curious about what a hiring committee meeting is like. Can you speak generally to how they go.

I know this is something that isn't actually important but I'm curious about what happens.

Thanks

[anon168]

I'm curious about what a hiring committee meeting is like. Can you speak generally to how they go.

I know this is something that isn't actually important but I'm curious about what happens.

Thanks

For OCI or CBs or permanent offers post-SA?

For OCI, the recruiting committee (RC) would get in a big conference room, sift through the resumes (or transcripts), and make 3 piles (generally speaking). A "yes" pile, a "no" pile and a "maybe" pile. The "maybe" pile were those that we might callback if they were really rockstars at OCI, or if the OCI interviewer saw something worthwhile that the grades did not reflect. If we did not have either (no resumes or transcripts), then we would discuss cut-offs for the particular school(s) we were at that week.

For CBs, there generally were not meetings for each candidate. After each interview, the attorney that did the interview was required to e-mail his/her evaluation to the RC within 30 minutes after completion of the interview. The eval basically asked whether you would recommend an offer, decline an offer, or a "maybe" and any comments you wanted to provide. After the interview was completed, the RC would tally up the votes for that particular candidate and, in most cases, it was majority wins. So, if you interviewed with 8 people (3 in the morning, 2 lunch, 3 afternoon), then you'd need at least 5 "yes" votes to get a SA offer.

For permanent offers post-SA, the RC would get together and sift through your summer evals, everything from work product to social interaction with other attorneys and support staff, and then make a decision. It was generally a black-box, but unless you were a major fuck up -- either professionally or socially -- you got an offer.

[Blessedassurance]

Do you recommend that applicants rub one out before a screener interview to make sure they're "in the zone"?

xo slow these days?

[Anonymous User]

I'm curious about what a hiring committee meeting is like. Can you speak generally to how they go.

I know this is something that isn't actually important but I'm curious about what happens.

Thanks

For OCI or CBs or permanent offers post-SA?

For OCI, the recruiting committee (RC) would get in a big conference room, sift through the resumes (or transcripts), and make 3 piles (generally speaking). A "yes" pile, a "no" pile and a "maybe" pile. The "maybe" pile were those that we might callback if they were really rockstars at OCI, or if the OCI interviewer saw something worthwhile that the grades did not reflect. If we did not have either (no resumes or transcripts), then we would discuss cut-offs for the particular school(s) we were at that week.

For CBs, there generally were not meetings for each candidate. After each interview, the attorney that did the interview was required to e-mail his/her evaluation to the RC within 30 minutes after completion of the interview. The eval basically asked whether you would recommend an offer, decline an offer, or a "maybe" and any comments you wanted to provide. After the interview was completed, the RC would tally up the votes for that particular candidate and, in most cases, it was majority wins. So, if you interviewed with 8 people (3 in the morning, 2 lunch, 3 afternoon), then you'd need at least 5 "yes" votes to get a SA offer.

For permanent offers post-SA, the RC would get together and sift through your summer evals, everything from work product to social interaction with other attorneys and support staff, and then make a decision. It was generally a black-box, but unless you were a major fuck up -- either professionally or socially -- you got an offer.

Thanks! Sorry for not being clear but appreciate the overview of the process.

[Anonymous User]

I worked for a V10 NYC firm over the summer, loved my time at the firm, but thought that I wanted to get back to the West Coast so I did some 3L interviewing. Ended up getting an offer at the top firm in the city I wanted, and accepted the offer. But now after the decision has been made, I'm having doubts about whether I actually made the right choice. I wish I could take the decision back. I feel like for what I want to do, I'm giving up a lot by not being in NYC. I officially got an offer from the V10 in the mail a few weeks ago, but I let them know that I would be going elsewhere. Also sent a letter to my summer mentor letting him know my decision.

I'm sure that I would look like a moron by going back to the V10 and asking them to re-extend the offer, but should I try? Also, it feels like a major dick move toward the CA firm that gave me an offer. Should I just suck it up at the CA firm for a few years and then try to get back to NYC?

[Old Gregg]

I worked for a V10 NYC firm over the summer, loved my time at the firm, but thought that I wanted to get back to the West Coast so I did some 3L interviewing. Ended up getting an offer at the top firm in the city I wanted, and accepted the offer. But now after the decision has been made, I'm having doubts about whether I actually made the right choice. I wish I could take the decision back. I feel like for what I want to do, I'm giving up a lot by not being in NYC. I officially got an offer from the V10 in the mail a few weeks ago, but I let them know that I would be going elsewhere. Also sent a letter to my summer mentor letting him know my decision.

I'm sure that I would look like a moron by going back to the V10 and asking them to re-extend the offer, but should I try? Also, it feels like a major dick move toward the CA firm that gave me an offer. Should I just suck it up at the CA firm for a few years and then try to get back to NYC?

IMO, NYC to CA is much easier than the other way around. If not that, it's definitely the path not as frequently traveled.