Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson matched.

[Anonymous User]

We're prob not getting a re-raise because a ton of you apparently have no work

[Anonymous User]

So anybody have any fun ways to celebrate the 4-week mark of no-raises tomorrow?

[Anonymous User]

So Gunderson, Cooley and Goodwin have matched. What are Fenwick and Wilson waiting for?

[Anonymous User]

We're prob not getting a re-raise because a ton of you apparently have no work

[TigerIsBack]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

(but seriously) Think like a managing partner for a second. If v10 matches now, then v10 will be expected to pay increased salary all year and at least one mid year special bonus. If they all collectively agree to ignore this, DPW can SHATTER the millybank scale effective April 1 or July 1, with a 3 or 6 month true up disguised as a pretty fat "special bonus" (like 2018 or whatever year that happened). And the market will follow. Final result: DPW maintains its spot as top comp dog and they nip the firehose of *actual* special bonuses. Remember, firms DO NOT want to pay us these bonuses for the rest of forever. The gravy train has to end eventually.

The one big risk is whether all firms play ball (kind of a millionaire prisoner's dilemma). A cascading match would force DPW to abandon this plan and match/raise early. Debatably this has already started with Cooley but we'll see.

And take note that no recruiting season exists between now and April/July so there is not a real risk of recruiting issues until late summer/early fall. If peer firms are playing along, then your top talent will stay. They won't leave for a temporary pay increase.

This doesn't make a lot of sense.

First of all, no chance DPW would get away with waiting until April to match the new scale and just calling their true up payment a special bonus. Morgan Lewis has already been criticized for trying this (which I don't think was their intent) in this current cycle.

Second, that true up payment would be like $5-10k for midlevels. That's nowhere near the special bonus level that midlevels are seniors are hoping for with a special bonus announcement (and definitely not "fat"). Think more in the range of $50-75k based on last year's scale plus inflation (not saying we'll get that, just that a $5k bonus would be a major let down in most people's eyes).

Third, there is nothing to suggest that if DPW doesn't announce a match until late spring/early summer that there's no recruiting season. The big special bonuses are targeting keeping midlevels and seniors. Those people are being recruited every day, and if another month goes by without a match from the v10, it may not be droves, but it also won't be zero associates that leave their v10 shops for higher paying firms like DLA, Goodwin, Cooley and Fried Frank. V10 associates already go to these firms as midlevels looking for a better lifestyle (which, lol).

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson matched.

When did this happen? Trying to figure out if evening announcements are a thing or if the news is just hitting TLS late.

[bigboybob]

Gunderson matched.

Did Gunderson offer a true up payment?

[Anonymous User]

Made me curious why their website is gunder.com. Amazingly the answer is that gunderson.com was already taken by a jewelry store.

[Anonymous User]

Can people stop suggesting that a true-up will be regarded as a special bonus? I get that a lot of attorneys weren't exactly math majors in undergrad but no one is stupid or gullible enough to think that a cumulative true-up payment is equivalent to a bonus. "Hey, sorry we paid you less than your peers at DLA for three months, but here's a catch-up to your sub-market pay" is not in the same realm as announcing special bonuses. You can see such weird ideas floated here sometimes.

[Anonymous User]

We're prob not getting a re-raise because a ton of you apparently have no work

Also, I hate stupid comments like these. It takes a few minutes to read through the shitpoasting here and another few minutes to type a few replies. I guarantee you every person complaining about this has spent more time checking sports scores or looking at their insta feed.

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson matched.

Did Gunderson offer a true up payment?

Yes. Next paycheck.

[Anonymous User]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

As someone who got an A in a similar seminar at YHSCCNMVPBDNC, I think you are spot on.

[Anonymous User]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

As someone who got an A in a similar seminar at YHSCCNMVPBDNC, I think you are spot on.

As someone who was almost median at a very solid member of YHSCCNMVPBDNCG, I tend to disagree and also objectively think DC >>>>NYC

[Anonymous User]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

As someone who got an A in a similar seminar at YHSCCNMVPBDNC, I think you are spot on.

As someone who was almost median at a very solid member of YHSCCNMVPBDNCG, I tend to disagree and also objectively think DC >>>>NYC

Hoya saxa, mf-ers.

[Anonymous User]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

As someone who got an A in a similar seminar at YHSCCNMVPBDNC, I think you are spot on.

As someone who was almost median at a very solid member of YHSCCNMVPBDNCU, I tend to disagree and also objectively think DC >>>>NYC

Hoya saxa, mf-ers.

Fixed, no one is letting "T15" slide guys...it's over

[Anonymous User]

You could take this thread, compile it, add a few footnotes with psych text citations, and do your dissertation on "An Instance of Electronic Collective Mass Psychosis Amongst a White-Collar Professional Cohort."

[Anonymous User]

I feel like it’s not uncommon to be fairly smart, but being a true grinder is an valuable gift and skill that’s being discounted here.

The grinders are the problem with this profession. It's a good skill at the junior level. At the senior level they just burn their subordinates out with mindless busy work and going down rabbit holes. The more useful grind-esque skill, I think, is the ability to manage projects and move things along.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

There's gotta be someone familiar enough with the legal market to game out how this could trickle up from Cooley to DPW. As in, Cooley is a peer of A in X market, so A will need to match. Then A is a peer of B in Y market, so B will match. Then B is a peer of [insert V5], so that V5 will need to match, which will finally put gears in motion for the rest of us.

Six Degrees of Kevin Lobster

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Can’t wait for another day to be paid under market.

[Anonymous User]

West Coast firms have to match at this point

[Anonymous User]

Associates should utilize what's their power and the tool available to them (Vault ranking survey) to make it known to the partners. Just rank all the non-matched firms low and see if they'd match quickly the next time around.

[Anonymous User]

My partner told me today is the day!

[Anonymous User]

Alright look I got an A- in law firm finance seminar at YHSCCN so I can tell you exactly what's happening. (lol)

(but seriously) Think like a managing partner for a second. If v10 matches now, then v10 will be expected to pay increased salary all year and at least one mid year special bonus. If they all collectively agree to ignore this, DPW can SHATTER the millybank scale effective April 1 or July 1, with a 3 or 6 month true up disguised as a pretty fat "special bonus" (like 2018 or whatever year that happened). And the market will follow. Final result: DPW maintains its spot as top comp dog and they nip the firehose of *actual* special bonuses. Remember, firms DO NOT want to pay us these bonuses for the rest of forever. The gravy train has to end eventually.

The one big risk is whether all firms play ball (kind of a millionaire prisoner's dilemma). A cascading match would force DPW to abandon this plan and match/raise early. Debatably this has already started with Cooley but we'll see.

And take note that no recruiting season exists between now and April/July so there is not a real risk of recruiting issues until late summer/early fall. If peer firms are playing along, then your top talent will stay. They won't leave for a temporary pay increase.

This doesn't make a lot of sense.

First of all, no chance DPW would get away with waiting until April to match the new scale and just calling their true up payment a special bonus. Morgan Lewis has already been criticized for trying this (which I don't think was their intent) in this current cycle.

Second, that true up payment would be like $5-10k for midlevels. That's nowhere near the special bonus level that midlevels are seniors are hoping for with a special bonus announcement (and definitely not "fat"). Think more in the range of $50-75k based on last year's scale plus inflation (not saying we'll get that, just that a $5k bonus would be a major let down in most people's eyes).

Third, there is nothing to suggest that if DPW doesn't announce a match until late spring/early summer that there's no recruiting season. The big special bonuses are targeting keeping midlevels and seniors. Those people are being recruited every day, and if another month goes by without a match from the v10, it may not be droves, but it also won't be zero associates that leave their v10 shops for higher paying firms like DLA, Goodwin, Cooley and Fried Frank. V10 associates already go to these firms as midlevels looking for a better lifestyle (which, lol).

Big brain anon here. Firms did this a couple years ago, so I don't think it's out of the question. For Juniors it was equivalent to a true up payment but for midlevels (maybe) and seniors it was higher (maybe 2x true up?). Not equivalent to the fat bonuses but remember, the law firms have the incentive to wean us off the special bonus teat.

And of course the firm could put a little on top if they wanted to. The point is that a true up has historically been called a special bonus and there is incentive to do that again (even in part).

And hmm, I know it goes against TLS dogma but as a pretentious YHSCCNer myself (with the student loans to show for it) I REALLY don't think the type of midlevel/senior considering v10 preftige would choose one of those "non-peer" firms based on a (presumably) temporary <6.5% salary boost, before taxes. Especially when v10 firms are throwing around fat black box signing bonuses these days.

Agree to disagree but saying this "doesn't make sense" is kind of silly when we're all literally watching DPW not match or re-raise for what seems to be no reason.