V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[roranoa]

They say net networking ability is very important in Biglaw.

But what kind of networks do you think are the most important?

Obviously network inside the firm is important but what about outside the firm?

Do you usually benefit from your law school network? People you met at the bar or other social events?

Also, do you think your undergrad networks ever helped you? Or maybe just being an alumnus from your school helped you with meeting other alumni?

[dingbat]

They say net networking ability is very important in Biglaw.

But what kind of networks do you think are the most important?

Obviously network inside the firm is important but what about outside the firm?

Do you usually benefit from your law school network? People you met at the bar or other social events?

Also, do you think your undergrad networks ever helped you? Or maybe just being an alumnus from your school helped you with meeting other alumni?

I can answer this: networks that could generate business.
This could come from anywhere: fellow lawyers whi've gone in-house, UG alumni running businesses, that kid from middle school who started his own tech company, your mother's second cousin who got caught embezzling, or the stoner childhood friend looking to start a medicinal pot business.

You never know where people end up (1 kid i went to elementary school with retired before 30 and is now an angel investor; my mother's friend's son is now CEO of a multinational corporation) or how you can help each other out in the future. A network is people who know you're an attorney who might one day contact you if they need legal advice.

[roranoa]

They say net networking ability is very important in Biglaw.

But what kind of networks do you think are the most important?

Obviously network inside the firm is important but what about outside the firm?

Do you usually benefit from your law school network? People you met at the bar or other social events?

Also, do you think your undergrad networks ever helped you? Or maybe just being an alumnus from your school helped you with meeting other alumni?

I can answer this: networks that could generate business.
This could come from anywhere: fellow lawyers whi've gone in-house, UG alumni running businesses, that kid from middle school who started his own tech company, your mother's second cousin who got caught embezzling, or the stoner childhood friend looking to start a medicinal pot business.

You never know where people end up (1 kid i went to elementary school with retired before 30 and is now an angel investor; my mother's friend's son is now CEO of a multinational corporation) or how you can help each other out in the future. A network is people who know you're an attorney who might one day contact you if they need legal advice.

I understand that anyone that can help generate business helps.

What I want to know is where the OP or the other anon lawyer got there most helpful networks while working at Biglaw.

[anon168]

They say net networking ability is very important in Biglaw.

But what kind of networks do you think are the most important?

Obviously network inside the firm is important but what about outside the firm?

Do you usually benefit from your law school network? People you met at the bar or other social events?

Also, do you think your undergrad networks ever helped you? Or maybe just being an alumnus from your school helped you with meeting other alumni?

All networking is important. Stressing "all".

From the obvious like alums, colleagues at firm, to family friends to even people like the cleaning lady.

Bottom line? Be nice and memorable to everyone you meet.

[094320]

..

[anon168]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

[roranoa]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

This isn't very helpful.

Okay, then, at least from you're experience, what kind of people (outside work) helped you most? You're law school alums? undergrad alums? Professors?

[itbdvorm]

Hi there,

I'm a 0L graduate working as a paralegal intending to apply to law school next fall. That means I have about 2 years before entering law school. My GPA is set and I'm happy with my LSAT. So apart from what I can do to get into the best law school possible, what can I do now to maximize my competitiveness for biglaw? E.g. would you recommend actively networking and requesting informational interviews from alums of my school at prestigious law firms? Is there anything in particular I can do in my spare time that would look attractive on my future 2L resume?

Thanks!

Not sure those would be that helpful. But telling your boss now what your goals are and seeing if he/she can put you in touch w/people could help

[itbdvorm]

Not sure if this has already been covered, but looking for some insight:

Just landed dream job in secondary market, and am currently considering "visiting" the market's TT school for my third year. (So, packing up and heading out for my 3L year.)

I would be giving up a year of law review, and some scholarship money, but the lower COL and ease of mind would make this a viable decision.

Would this decision have an adverse impact on my full-time offer potential after my SA?

probably not. or do you mean actually getting your degree from there?

[itbdvorm]

uh....do you mean that only a handful left the firm or only a handful are still at the firm?
And btw, what year associate are you?

only a handful remaining. not answering second one

[itbdvorm]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

This isn't very helpful.

Okay, then, at least from you're experience, what kind of people (outside work) helped you most? You're law school alums? undergrad alums? Professors?

anon168's response is actually incredibly helpful.

the point he's making is that you should be out and about with anyone/everyone. you never know where the referral is going to come from. the key is having a broad network and being a quality person to everyone in it. your question is unanswerable because everyone's experiences will vary

[anon168]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

This isn't very helpful.

Okay, then, at least from you're experience, what kind of people (outside work) helped you most? You're law school alums? undergrad alums? Professors?

It's impossible to say, and really, in many ways it's the wrong question to ask.

When people think about BD, they usually think in terms of outside people -- e.g. alums, friends etc.

At biglaw some of the best networking connections come from within the firm. Let's say your firm does alot of M&A work for GE. And let's the main corporate partner contact for that M&A work is John Doe. Well, if you're a litigator who wants to get some GE litigation work, it would be worth your while to talk to John Doe, and describe the exeprience and expertise that you have and that the firm may have in a particular field, e.g. securities lit, FCPA, etc.

Honestly, for a litigator at biglaw that's the best way to bring in new business. Depending on how your firm handles business generation credits, you'll get at least partial origination credit for that new litigation busines.

As a midlevel or sr. associate you simply don't have the cache or gravitas to recruit the type of clients necesary to justify biglaw work or fees.

[Anonymous User]

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to answer questions.

Second, my question: I have plans to work in the corporate department of the top firm in a secondary market (think LA, Chicago, etc) after graduation. Offer in hand, I'll be there next fall. However, I have a lot of family in NYC and I'm wondering whether I'll miss them and feel the need to get back to New York—that might be one year in the future or five years in the future. What's the best way to position myself for potentially moving back to NYC, and can I expect a big prestige hit in firm if I do make a move? I know these things are difficult / impossible to predict, but I was wondering if you've seen anything like this. (FWIW, I worked at a NYC V5 over the summer and got an offer; not sure if that matters.)

[094320]

..

[dingbat]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

Thanks for the response! Just to clarify, I'm wondering about the the extent to which "networking" is supposed to be a form of sycophancy versus something that should naturally happen if you are generally friendly & social, but not deliberate about it (as in, you just like to make friends, you don't see people as stepping stones). I often hear about the importance of "networking", but I don't like making friends for the purpose of using them as connections and prefer to just genuinely befriend people. When I go to "networking" events, I'm really just going to try to see if I can meet people I can click with and expand my friend circle, and focus less on meeting every single person there, and don't consider at all the extent to which the person could be "useful". Is this some naivity I should be letting go of, or is that a reasonable way to try to go through my career?

Having worked with people who are a total natural at it, the previous reponse is still correct.
Genuinely befriending people is perfectly fine, just make sure those people know what you do so that if they ever have need of your services, they know to approach you.

If you network just for the purpose of using them as connections, there are plenty of people who will be turned off by that and specifically choose not to turn to you. (n the other hand, some people do just that but are so natural they're not aware of it themselves)

As an aside - I'm horrible at "networking" in the way a lot of people think of it, but I have a broad network of people I've met and connected with over the years, and if it turns out that there's synergy between what I do and what they need, well, that's already worked to my advantage well enough in the past.
Remember, people like to work with people they like.

[Anonymous User]

What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks

Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.

Agreed. And document everything you can.

Thanks for the advice. Can you explain what you mean by documenting this?

Are you saying that I should submit a report of the events to someone? If so, to whom?

[PlessFightsFire]

If you have callbacks this late where they are likely seeing less candidates are thank yous less optional?

How late is too late?

[anon168]

What, exactly, is the difference between networking and just being a generally nice, friendly, and social person?

For the people that do it well, there is none.

Thanks for the response! Just to clarify, I'm wondering about the the extent to which "networking" is supposed to be a form of sycophancy versus something that should naturally happen if you are generally friendly & social, but not deliberate about it (as in, you just like to make friends, you don't see people as stepping stones). I often hear about the importance of "networking", but I don't like making friends for the purpose of using them as connections and prefer to just genuinely befriend people. When I go to "networking" events, I'm really just going to try to see if I can meet people I can click with and expand my friend circle, and focus less on meeting every single person there, and don't consider at all the extent to which the person could be "useful". Is this some naivity I should be letting go of, or is that a reasonable way to try to go through my career?

No,that's the way you should go about it. You already have the right mental approach.

[anon168]

What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks

Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.

Agreed. And document everything you can.

Thanks for the advice. Can you explain what you mean by documenting this?

Are you saying that I should submit a report of the events to someone? If so, to whom?

E-mail stuff to your supervisor, memos to file, blindcopy your legal assistant, etc.

[Anonymous User]

How do you not take things personally at work? I know that sounds simple, but I was just railed on for thirty solid minutes about... nothing. There was no error or fuck-up. I usually don't take these things personally, but this was brutal/unrelenting and I'm having a hard time shaking it.

[dingbat]

How do you not take things personally at work? I know that sounds simple, but I was just railed on for thirty solid minutes about... nothing. There was no error or fuck-up. I usually don't take these things personally, but this was brutal/unrelenting and I'm having a hard time shaking it.

Either get used to it or start looking for new opportunities and hope for better luck next time

Edit: you get this in every professional field. Some people just blow up or need to let off steam. Keep your mouth shut, sulk for 5 minutes after, then get back to work.
Or start flipping burgers

[Old Gregg]

How do you not take things personally at work? I know that sounds simple, but I was just railed on for thirty solid minutes about... nothing. There was no error or fuck-up. I usually don't take these things personally, but this was brutal/unrelenting and I'm having a hard time shaking it.

Either get used to it or start looking for new opportunities and hope for better luck next time

Edit: you get this in every professional field. Some people just blow up or need to let off steam. Keep your mouth shut, sulk for 5 minutes after, then get back to work.
Or start flipping burgers

Unless you are OP or anon168, who are attorneys, Please stop answering questions in this thread.

[dingbat]

Unless you are OP or anon168, who are attorneys, Please stop answering questions in this thread.

ordinarily, I wouldn't, but these two questions I am in position to answer, based on professional experience. Please let me know if you thought my answers were wrong

[crit_racer]

Unless you are OP or anon168, who are attorneys, Please stop answering questions in this thread.

ordinarily, I wouldn't, but these two questions I am in position to answer, based on professional experience. Please let me know if you thought my answers were wrong

why do you keep blowing up the legal employment threads with advice? Youre a 1L who has never had a legal job. No one cares if you used to be some drone analyst at an ibank or whatever. Just stopppppp...it's obnoxious

[anon168]

How do you not take things personally at work? I know that sounds simple, but I was just railed on for thirty solid minutes about... nothing. There was no error or fuck-up. I usually don't take these things personally, but this was brutal/unrelenting and I'm having a hard time shaking it.

I am very sorry to hear that. But shit like that just happens and I don't think it is indicative, or unique, to the legal profession. Sometimes you just end up working for bad people. It could happen at McDonalds just as easily as it can at Cravath.

The glib answer is, just blow it off and don't take it personally. Some people I know will close their office door and have a good half hour cry - nothing wrong with that if it works for you. Others will go have a stiff drink or two. Some will go get laid (if you're a guy) or buy a purse (if you're not).

And this is going to sound corny but if you can't help but take it personally just understand that your job does not define you as a person. There are those out there who love and care about you outside of you qua lawyer. Hold on to that and realize that no matter how bad things get at work (and most likely they will get worse at some point) you are more than just a lawyer.

Good luck and hope that helps.