How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[Anonymous User]

3Ls who are offering stats for PD offices, can you be more specific about caliber of office? Are we talking Colorado-like or Kentucky-like for state systems? Miami-like or nowhere Mississippi-like for city systems?

(not any of the previous anon posters)

Terrible terrible grades in law school. Terrible. Like, bottom quarter. Local law school.

Interned for 3 semesters and a summer (an entire year 'certified', so practicing basically as an atty as long as I had a babysitter in the vicinity). Have literally never shown a transcript or anything else from law school, as long as I have my bar card, they're cool with it. honestly I don't think they have any clue about my miserable grades. Nor do I think they would care.

Colorado like system, had an offer by Christmas of 3LoL (this didn't help grades).



Just to reiterate, except for the very very very top of the PD ranks (pds, fed, the high paying Cali offices) what REALLY matters is connections and experience.

Eta: not a 3L, graduated in may '12

[Anonymous User]

Thanks anon above. I'm glad to hear that.

For others out there: my grades are horrible. This has not been a problem for internships, because no one has ever asked about them. But I'm concerned about finding post-grad employment. I would prefer my grades never be a consideration, instead of hoping they can be overlooked. Which offices do not even request transcripts/grades?

[Jeremyl]

I bet you in a couple pages, we'll have people asking if grades and school rank matter.

Thanks for all the info, everyone. And congrats too.

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Anon who bombed law school from above.

A quick googling shows alameda to be what I would consider one of the 'high paying Cali' offices.

There are offices that care about grades and school. My office (obviously, fortunately) is not one of them. That being said, I'm not gonna make nearly as much as the alameda pd will. Don't screw up law school, it's not a good plan, but if you do, you might not be fucked.

Bottom line- experience matters. Get some time in the office/system you want to work in.

[Lady Heather]

I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:

• Brooklyn

No transcript:

• Bronx
  Colorado
  Mecklenberg Co (NC)
  Miami
  New Jersey
  Palm Beach
  Philly
  San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:

• Alameda Co
  CPCS
  Contra Costa Co
  Legal Aid Society
  New Hampshire
  Prettyman Fellowship
  PDS
  San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:

• Brooklyn
  San Francisco
  Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:

• Bronx
  Cook Co
  Manhattan
  Miami
  Philly
  Queens

[Anonymous User]

I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:

• Bronx
  Brooklyn
  Colorado
  CPCS
  Miami
  Mecklenberg Co (NC)
  New Jersey
  Palm Beach
  PDS
  San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:

• Alameda Co
  Legal Aid Society
  New Hampshire
  San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:

• Brooklyn
  Cook Co
  San Francisco
  Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:

• Bronx
  Manhattan
  Miami
  Philly
  Queens

Cook Co. State's Attorney requires a transcript, and even lists "Academic standing- top 50 percent of the class" as one of its top hiring considerations.

[Lady Heather]

Cook Co. State's Attorney requires a transcript, and even lists "Academic standing- top 50 percent of the class" as one of its top hiring considerations.

Thank you. I'll edit the post.

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Clerk position, or attorney position?

[Anonymous User]

PDS and the Prettyman Fellowship both require transcripts, as does CPCS.

Philly PD does not.

[Anonymous User]

Contra Costa County PD asks for transcripts from 3Ls applying for its Graduate Clerk position.

[Anonymous User]

How necessary is mock trial in order to be competitive? Do you need mock trial + internship experience + a clinic?

[Anonymous User]

How necessary is mock trial in order to be competitive? Do you need mock trial + internship experience + a clinic?

No. I had no mock trial. I did have several first chair jury trials but no one even mentioned the lack of mock trial. My answer would have been simple though: mock trial vs real trial? is it really a comparison?

[FlanAl]

This may be crazy but would representing yourself pro se in like traffic court count at all for trial experience?

[the lantern]

How necessary is mock trial in order to be competitive? Do you need mock trial + internship experience + a clinic?

I did some mock trial stuff (not on the traveling team) and no one ever asked me about it or cared. I think real trial experience from your internship/clinic is much more important. I don't think representing yourself on a traffic violation is going to be very impressive-- one would hope you had had a real trial by the time you were seeking post-grad employment. That being said, I know people who didn't get a trial during their internship/clinic (everything pleaded out) and they still got hired.

[Anonymous User]

Bronx
Colorado
Miami
Mecklenberg Co (NC)
New Jersey
Palm Beach
San Diego Fed

None of the above require transcripts.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement for post-bar positions at the Philly PD? I haven't heard anything since the October "we got your application" e-mail. I'm a bit bummed because I thought I'd be a shoe-in for an interview (previous PD experience, strong ties to Philly, references who are best-ies with decision makers).

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Clerk position, or attorney position?

Paid 1 year post-bar. From what I heard, there are VERY few PD offices that hire attorney positions directly out of law school. I know that PDS is one of them.

[the lantern]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Clerk position, or attorney position?

Paid 1 year post-bar. From what I heard, there are VERY few PD offices that hire attorney positions directly out of law school. I know that PDS is one of them.

Am I missing something here? Almost all PD offices hire directly out of law school other than the federal defender, which still will from time to time.

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Clerk position, or attorney position?

Paid 1 year post-bar. From what I heard, there are VERY few PD offices that hire attorney positions directly out of law school. I know that PDS is one of them.

Am I missing something here? Almost all PD offices hire directly out of law school other than the federal defender, which still will from time to time.

Different anonymous here. For the rest of the country (especially on the East Coast), that is correct. In California, it is not. In northern California, Alameda and Contra Costa are the only two county offices (that I know of) that hire pre-bar and actually pay you as a graduate clerk. Both programs last one year yet most of clerks will become full-fledged PDs within a few months of passing the Bar-- either in Alameda/Contra Costa or in another CA office. San Francisco only offers an un-paid volunteer program (unless you're a fellow from SLS).

In So Cal, I know San Diego County has a graduate pre-Bar results program that pays up until Bar results come out and the Federal Defenders of SD hire and pay you pre-Bar results. I'm not sure about Los Angeles.

[Anonymous User]

I forgot one thing. While they don't start hiring until April/May, Santa Clara County (where San Jose and Palo Alto are) does have a limited number of paid graduate clerks who do law and motion work starting in August right after the Bar.

[Anonymous User]

3L, T1 California school, top 1/4. Both summers at Alameda County PD.

Offer at Alameda County PD. They did ask for transcripts, btw.

Clerk position, or attorney position?

Paid 1 year post-bar. From what I heard, there are VERY few PD offices that hire attorney positions directly out of law school. I know that PDS is one of them.

Am I missing something here? Almost all PD offices hire directly out of law school other than the federal defender, which still will from time to time.

Umm...I guess I only know about California and PDS, but it seems really strange to me that an underfunded PD's office (which almost all of them are) would hire you to an attorney position as soon as you graduate from law school. What good does a person who hasn't passed the bar do for them in an attorney position?

Again, I'm only speaking from my experiences with California PD offices.

[Anonymous User]

Umm...I guess I only know about California and PDS, but it seems really strange to me that an underfunded PD's office (which almost all of them are) would hire you to an attorney position as soon as you graduate from law school. What good does a person who hasn't passed the bar do for them in an attorney position?

Again, I'm only speaking from my experiences with California PD offices.

I don't know how it works in all states, but in Colorado, you get hired pre-bar (during 3L). You take the bar, and then immediately start working a full caseload. I'm pretty sure this is an extension of the practice rules that allow 2Ls and 3Ls to represent people in court. However, if you fail the bar, and you're in court when the results come out, the office WILL send someone in to court to pull you out, even if you're in the middle of trial (or whatever you'd be doing as a newbie), because your ability to represent someone has just vanished. (This is for the PD's office, anyway.) So in a sense, I guess it's kind of a conditional hire - but they're happy to have you because you can start working right away.

[Anonymous User]

The local SAO in Florida hires pre bar and has you work during bar prep. If you've done a clinic you can keep working as a certified legal intern up to a year after graduation I think as long as you're working for the government. This means you can do anything an attorney can do as long as you have a babysitter. I dunno how it works in other states.

[Anonymous User]

I'm trying to decide between summer offers. I heard a couple things at EJW this year and want to know how true they are. 1. if you intern your 2L summer at the Colorado State Public Defender, you're almost guaranteed a job after graduation. You will interview at the end of the summer and if you don't screw it up, you'll get an offer. 2. because Colorado does this, it is hard to get a postgrad job there if you did not intern.