Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

How many weeks have to pass before people start to believe that many firms are not going to match?

I'm calling it that firms are going to wait through the market dips. Come June/July, Milbank does another raise and there would be two tiers of firms: one that matched and one that didn't match.

This would be hilarious: at that point V10s would learn how little their "prestige" matters and they would be reduced to hiring laterals and summer associates from TTTs with median grades.

[Anonymous User]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

[Anonymous User]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

I would've said of course not four weeks ago, but even I'm starting to come onto the side of "the prestigious firms are ready to play chicken." Hopefully it doesn't pay off for them and associates vote with their feet, but I'm skeptical of that given how some of the people I know at my V10 view working here.

[Anonymous User]

Ok guys. Focus. Back to making predictions based on arbitrary criteria on when DPW will finally say something. My vote is 4:35 PM tomorrow.

Honestly whoever said "DPW maybe planned a March bonus announcement and isn't going to let Milbank change their schedule" was probably right. They probably "decided" to match the moment Milbank announced, it's pretty much a no brainer, and at this point there's not much of another explanation for the delay, and there's certainly no reason to believe the 28th day after Milbank would be any different from the 27th (today, not that I'm counting).

I say second week of March.

Are those criteria arbitrary enough?

But if this is the case, why not match Milbank in January and then just announce a bonus in March? What does DPW have to gain by delaying its announce of a comp match until it can coincide with a bonus announcement? Alternatively, why not announce the bonus alongside the comp announcement in January but just make the bonus payable in March/April? Last year's special bonuses were announced well in advance of the actual payout date.

[Anonymous User]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

I don't see why these firms wouldn't necessarily try to take the Goldman route: pay their associates less in terms of $$ and more in terms of "prestige." Perhaps in their minds they will lose some recruits traditionally viewed as the most desirable, but will retain others do to "prestige" and also because of the idea that most associate recruits are fungible and those that aren't could be recruited with individual compensation packages. Of course, it may also be the case that, unlike Goldman, the more "prestigious" firms are a mirage and don't actually offer better training, exits, or clients, and that the "V10s" are too far up their own asses to realize this and will bleed associates. I guess only time will tell.

[Anonymous User]

How is it that NO ONE in dpw has any information? Not even a "partner told me don't worry we'll at least match"? I'm at a v50 and a partner told me we'll match market (would share which v50 if I thought it was useful info but we're not market leaders of anything so I won't).

[LBJ's Hair]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

they are going to match

[Anonymous User]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

I don't see why these firms wouldn't necessarily try to take the Goldman route: pay their associates less in terms of $$ and more in terms of "prestige." Perhaps in their minds they will lose some recruits traditionally viewed as the most desirable, but will retain others do to "prestige" and also because of the idea that most associate recruits are fungible and those that aren't could be recruited with individual compensation packages. Of course, it may also be the case that, unlike Goldman, the more "prestigious" firms are a mirage and don't actually offer better training, exits, or clients, and that the "V10s" are too far up their own asses to realize this and will bleed associates. I guess only time will tell.

Maybe Cravath is a big enough brand name to get away with this (and I guess they already do by not matching above market bonus). But the other V10 simply don't have the resume prestige that Goldman does, imo.

[Anonymous User]

Ok guys. Focus. Back to making predictions based on arbitrary criteria on when DPW will finally say something. My vote is 4:35 PM tomorrow.

Honestly whoever said "DPW maybe planned a March bonus announcement and isn't going to let Milbank change their schedule" was probably right. They probably "decided" to match the moment Milbank announced, it's pretty much a no brainer, and at this point there's not much of another explanation for the delay, and there's certainly no reason to believe the 28th day after Milbank would be any different from the 27th (today, not that I'm counting).

I say second week of March.

Are those criteria arbitrary enough?

But if this is the case, why not match Milbank in January and then just announce a bonus in March? What does DPW have to gain by delaying its announce of a comp match until it can coincide with a bonus announcement? Alternatively, why not announce the bonus alongside the comp announcement in January but just make the bonus payable in March/April? Last year's special bonuses were announced well in advance of the actual payout date.

Some combination of lethargy (don't want to write two memos) and bitterness (at Milbank stealing their spotlight/making labor more expensive)?

[MK2021]

How is it that NO ONE in dpw has any information? Not even a "partner told me don't worry we'll at least match"? I'm at a v50 and a partner told me we'll match market (would share which v50 if I thought it was useful info but we're not market leaders of anything so I won't).

Someone in DPW is having an affair with an EP. It’s got to be standard in the industry right? Like… in every industry. Who are you? You can comment anonymously just tell us what they whispered to you romantically about matching for the love of God

[Anonymous User]

How is it that NO ONE in dpw has any information? Not even a "partner told me don't worry we'll at least match"? I'm at a v50 and a partner told me we'll match market (would share which v50 if I thought it was useful info but we're not market leaders of anything so I won't).

Also floored by this.

[Anonymous User]

Also, GS discount seems like it's no longer a thing?

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ ... laries?amp

[Anonymous User]

There is just no way firms are not matching, right?

I don't see why these firms wouldn't necessarily try to take the Goldman route: pay their associates less in terms of $$ and more in terms of "prestige." Perhaps in their minds they will lose some recruits traditionally viewed as the most desirable, but will retain others do to "prestige" and also because of the idea that most associate recruits are fungible and those that aren't could be recruited with individual compensation packages. Of course, it may also be the case that, unlike Goldman, the more "prestigious" firms are a mirage and don't actually offer better training, exits, or clients, and that the "V10s" are too far up their own asses to realize this and will bleed associates. I guess only time will tell.

I don't think this works when you have (1) WLRK at the top still paying $$$, and (2) non-white shoe V10s like K&E, Latham, and GDC that will certainly match. There is no firm in the V10 that does not see one of those firms (not to mention many V20 and other firms) as a direct competitor. So they wouldn't be giving associates the choice between prestige and slightly less money vs less prestige and slightly more money, they would be giving associates the choice between more money or less money with basically the same amount of prestige.

Setting aside the V10 for a minute, does anyone really think very profitable V20 firms like Debevoise, Weil, and Paul Hastings are going to pay their associates less than firms like DLA, Baker & McKenzie, and Norton Rose? And if those V20 firms match, even more profitable V10 firms aren't going to? Chill guys. It is annoying that things are moving so slowly, but at the end of the day all of the top firms will be on Milbank scale or higher at some point this year. The only question now is the same question as always when bonuses or raises are announced: how far down the table will the raises go?

[Anonymous User]

My guess is on a V10 announcing a match by the end of next week and saying it comes with a full Jan/Feb match true-up on whatever check comes after that.

[Anonymous User]

Any news on Fenwick?

With a Cooley and Goodwin match, surprised not to hear from Fenwick/Wilson.

[Anonymous User]

Ok guys. Focus. Back to making predictions based on arbitrary criteria on when DPW will finally say something. My vote is 4:35 PM tomorrow.

Honestly whoever said "DPW maybe planned a March bonus announcement and isn't going to let Milbank change their schedule" was probably right. They probably "decided" to match the moment Milbank announced, it's pretty much a no brainer, and at this point there's not much of another explanation for the delay, and there's certainly no reason to believe the 28th day after Milbank would be any different from the 27th (today, not that I'm counting).

I say second week of March.

Are those criteria arbitrary enough?

But if this is the case, why not match Milbank in January and then just announce a bonus in March? What does DPW have to gain by delaying its announce of a comp match until it can coincide with a bonus announcement? Alternatively, why not announce the bonus alongside the comp announcement in January but just make the bonus payable in March/April? Last year's special bonuses were announced well in advance of the actual payout date.

I'm guessing they wanted to coast on the EoY bonuses for a while and want to keep interest renewed by spacing announcements. Next large round of people leaving is coming in the Spring, so save the dangling treats until then.

[Anonymous User]

Any news on Fenwick?

With a Cooley and Goodwin match, surprised not to hear from Fenwick/Wilson.

If anyone had news on Fenwick (or any other biglaw firm), they'd post it without you needing to solicit it.

[Anonymous User]

Ok guys. Focus. Back to making predictions based on arbitrary criteria on when DPW will finally say something. My vote is 4:35 PM tomorrow.

Honestly whoever said "DPW maybe planned a March bonus announcement and isn't going to let Milbank change their schedule" was probably right. They probably "decided" to match the moment Milbank announced, it's pretty much a no brainer, and at this point there's not much of another explanation for the delay, and there's certainly no reason to believe the 28th day after Milbank would be any different from the 27th (today, not that I'm counting).

I say second week of March.

Are those criteria arbitrary enough?

But if this is the case, why not match Milbank in January and then just announce a bonus in March? What does DPW have to gain by delaying its announce of a comp match until it can coincide with a bonus announcement? Alternatively, why not announce the bonus alongside the comp announcement in January but just make the bonus payable in March/April? Last year's special bonuses were announced well in advance of the actual payout date.

I'm guessing they wanted to coast on the EoY bonuses for a while and want to keep interest renewed by spacing announcements. Next large round of people leaving is coming in the Spring, so save the dangling treats until then.

Makes total sense and I understand if that was their intention, but when Milbank announced it seems that DPW should have adjusted that plan. I just don't see any upside for the firm by waiting weeks (months?) to match or even exceed a comp raise. It jeopardizes the goodwill you've built with your associates and for no discernible upside.

[Anonymous User]

New theory: DPW has overextended and is on the brink of bankruptcy. They cannot afford the raise. DPW partners are hiding their heads in the sand, praying for a miracle.

[Anonymous User]

I asked earlier but I think it was overlooked. Has everyone concluded at this point that we are passed the probability of a re-raise?

[Anonymous User]

Just completed my vault survey and rewarded Doesn't Pay Well with a 1. Congrats, Neil!

[Anonymous User]

I asked earlier but I think it was overlooked. Has everyone concluded at this point that we are passed the probability of a re-raise?

I don't think any of us really know. I still think the most plausible explanation is an ongoing disagreement at DPW over whether to raise, match, or add a special bonus. This is a long time to go without resolving the argument, though

[Anonymous User]

Top firms who have remained silent have to go above Milbank. To do otherwise would be absurd at this point given the length of the delay. Otherwise, what was the point of the delay? To just dick us around? A simple match would be a serious slap in the face.

[Anonymous User]

Ok guys. Focus. Back to making predictions based on arbitrary criteria on when DPW will finally say something. My vote is 4:35 PM tomorrow.

Honestly whoever said "DPW maybe planned a March bonus announcement and isn't going to let Milbank change their schedule" was probably right. They probably "decided" to match the moment Milbank announced, it's pretty much a no brainer, and at this point there's not much of another explanation for the delay, and there's certainly no reason to believe the 28th day after Milbank would be any different from the 27th (today, not that I'm counting).

I say second week of March.

Are those criteria arbitrary enough?

But if this is the case, why not match Milbank in January and then just announce a bonus in March? What does DPW have to gain by delaying its announce of a comp match until it can coincide with a bonus announcement? Alternatively, why not announce the bonus alongside the comp announcement in January but just make the bonus payable in March/April? Last year's special bonuses were announced well in advance of the actual payout date.

I'm guessing they wanted to coast on the EoY bonuses for a while and want to keep interest renewed by spacing announcements. Next large round of people leaving is coming in the Spring, so save the dangling treats until then.

Makes total sense and I understand if that was their intention, but when Milbank announced it seems that DPW should have adjusted that plan. I just don't see any upside for the firm by waiting weeks (months?) to match or even exceed a comp raise. It jeopardizes the goodwill you've built with your associates and for no discernible upside.

What's the downside to waiting? What goodwill is burned if they give more in a month?

People are annoyed now but do people really care after the announcement?

[Anonymous User]

Top firms who have remained silent have to go above Milbank. To do otherwise would be absurd at this point given the length of the delay. Otherwise, what was the point of the delay? To just dick us around? A simple match would be a serious slap in the face.

lol a SLAP in the FACE! quell horreur

most biglaw partners would literally slap associates in the face if they could rearrange the world to make it socially acceptable; the fact that the delay in being given a raise irks associates seen by many of them as overentitled is likely a feature as much as a bug