Firms with the most normal or weird people? Another firm culture thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Can you guys tell us which firms you all work at so we can finally have the definitive answer to "firms with the most weird people"?

This.

All of them. Law students are weird, a-type personalities. People who succeed at law school and get jobs at big firms are the weirdest of that bunch

[barre777]

Let me ask Moderators, may I post a paragraph about a weird T14 student who went on to BigLaw, of course not naming names, and various weirdness indicators, without offending Moderators? (I'm actually shocked that this topic is allowed to stay up).

[barre777]

I think you should take MDMA and then go back and review your posts

[Anonymous User]

To the extent people care, at my school here is the rep for the very normal and then the very weird. But this is so so arbitrary and anecdotal

Normal:
- Davis Polk
- Latham
- Debevoise
- Simpson
-Cleary
-Sidley
-Milbank
-Cooley
- MoFo
- Perkins
- Goodwin
-Hogan
-WSGR
-K&S
-McDermott
-Gibson
-Pillsbury
-Jenner
-Fenwick
-Crowell
-Gunderson

Where Ridiculous Gunners/the Weird Go:

-Wachtell
-Skadden
- SULLIVAN
-KIRKLAND
-quinn
-Ropes
-DLA
-W&C
- Munger
-Jones Day
-Paul Weiss
-Mayer Brown
-Baker McKenzie
-Freshfrields
-Boies
-White & Case
-Akin
-V&E

[Anonymous User]

Tbh I think Sullivan Cromwell is the only firm I’ve noticed that disproportionately attracts the weirdos, but by weirdo I just mean try-hard gunners. But I know some nice folks going there too.

Overall I think the less prestigious the firm, the less weird the people will be. I’d probably enjoy grabbing a beer with a random sherman sterling associate versus a cravath one. This is because cravath people want to achieve for the sake of achievement, which is weird.

[Anonymous User]

Tbh I think Sullivan Cromwell is the only firm I’ve noticed that disproportionately attracts the weirdos, but by weirdo I just mean try-hard gunners. But I know some nice folks going there too.

Overall I think the less prestigious the firm, the less weird the people will be. I’d probably enjoy grabbing a beer with a random sherman sterling associate versus a cravath one. This is because cravath people want to achieve for the sake of achievement, which is weird.

As I recall, all of the people who went to Wachtell, CSM, S&C, DPW, PW, STB, Skadden, Kirkland (NY) were all sorta gunners as 1Ls. The difference is that STB, Skadden and Kirkland folks just stopped being gunners when they became 2Ls because they knew they were not going to graduate with magna/honors and had no clerkship ambitions.

[jimmythecatdied6]

The real thing you need to care about are the firms that allow weirdos to join their firm at all. When a firm values a GPA over personality, you can tell what they prioritize in associates.

From my recollection, Skadden handed out offers to a number of people that I found rude and/or socially awkward. So did S&C. It's not surprising those firms are getting called out here

[Anonymous User]

The real thing you need to care about are the firms that allow weirdos to join their firm at all. When a firm values a GPA over personality, you can tell what they prioritize in associates.

From my recollection, Skadden handed out offers to a number of people that I found rude and/or socially awkward. So did S&C. It's not surprising those firms are getting called out here

But "GPA over personality" can mean two things. It can mean "hires rude people", or it can mean "overlooks quirky personalities". As someone who doesn't fit into the typical "personality" box, I'm happy there are firms that gave me a chance to prove myself. But I am not rude, I try to be nice to people.

[Anonymous User]

The real thing you need to care about are the firms that allow weirdos to join their firm at all. When a firm values a GPA over personality, you can tell what they prioritize in associates.

From my recollection, Skadden handed out offers to a number of people that I found rude and/or socially awkward. So did S&C. It's not surprising those firms are getting called out here

But "GPA over personality" can mean two things. It can mean "hires rude people", or it can mean "overlooks quirky personalities". As someone who doesn't fit into the typical "personality" box, I'm happy there are firms that gave me a chance to prove myself. But I am not rude, I try to be nice to people.

Every firm is offering some "socially awkward" people. These are firms with ~100 people summer classes and they cold offer 1 or 2 a year. There are far more than 1 or 2 socially iffy people in a grouping of law students who did well enough at good enough schools to get an offer at Cravath, Davis Polk, Simpson, Latham, Gibson, etc etc etc.

[Anonymous User]

Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.

[uncle_rico]

Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.

KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from

[Anonymous User]

Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.

KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from

Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.

[Anonymous User]

I like people at the bigger international firms more. Way more laid back

[Anonymous User]

KE Chicago >>>>> KE NY, the latter being where most of the rep comes from

Do you think this is true in groups that extensively staff cross-office? Eg every Rx deal is 50/50 NYC/Chicago. I'd think that would lead to culture and work expectations being pretty similar across offices at least for that practice.

Not the person you're responding to, but I'd say so. K&E Chicago overwhelmingly hires Midwesterners or those attending schools in the Midwest. This past year, their Rx summers were disproportionately Notre Dame students. Not every individual who goes to ND or WUSTL is a Midwesterner, and even less so at NW/Chi, but there is still an effect from self-selection toward Midwest schools, and toward working in Chicago instead of New York.

[Anonymous User]

The real thing you need to care about are the firms that allow weirdos to join their firm at all. When a firm values a GPA over personality, you can tell what they prioritize in associates.

From my recollection, Skadden handed out offers to a number of people that I found rude and/or socially awkward. So did S&C. It's not surprising those firms are getting called out here

Yeah when a firm values screamers over personality, you can tell what they are prioritizing. From my recollection, I haven't seen a lot of Skadden & S&C attorneys being called out in the "terrible to work for" thread. I'd rather work with socially awkward people than getting screamed at, any day.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

I am so glad you came here to say that because I was going to say that the pp was spot on with the regional descriptions and it reminded me of all the NY bros who talk about how their super fancy lawyer jobs help them pull hot babez, which is truly the worst of the worst.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

My understanding is condos don’t cost that much in Chicago, so young people with non-poor parents would likely be spotted cash as needed for a downpayment. According to Google over 70% of households own a car in Chicago.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

Junior associate in Chicago. I drive to work from my house, which I own. Maybe I'm in the minority but idk, seems like a lot of people at least have cars (there's this amazing invention called a garage, NY should try it) and the housing is very affordable.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

Junior associate in Chicago. I drive to work from my house, which I own. Maybe I'm in the minority but idk, seems like a lot of people at least have cars (there's this amazing invention called a garage, NY should try it) and the housing is very affordable.

You drive into the loop/river north every day? That's gotta be like almost a thousand dollars in parking charges a month. Not disputing chicago is crazy affordable relative to nyc or even dc. Just that there's no need to own a car if you live in the city. I can't imagine commuting downtown with a car on a regular basis especially considering that the L is tailored around shuttling people in/out of downtown.

[Anonymous User]

Definitely going to get crucified for daring to say this but I summered at KE Chicago and found to my great shock that the people there were much more normal and easier to talk to than the average people at my T14. I expected the opposite, because although in the rarefied air of TLS Kirkland is basically dirt compared to like WLRK or some DC appellate lit shop it's still a selective office such that I think it's fair to say it's an above average outcome for my T14, and thus I expected the people there to be above average weird relative to my classmates. That wasn't true.

I had a real job for a few years after college and thus understand that a summer internship is in no way shape or form representative of the real job, but I think the way people behave to you in social interactions isn't subject to the same stuff. I don't know, just my experience but I found it much easier to get along with both attorneys and summers in that office relative to people at my school.

This was also my experience. There are going to be weird and awkward people everywhere, but Kirkland Chicago definitely has a better normal to weird ratio than my t-14 did.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

Junior associate in Chicago. I drive to work from my house, which I own. Maybe I'm in the minority but idk, seems like a lot of people at least have cars (there's this amazing invention called a garage, NY should try it) and the housing is very affordable.

You drive into the loop/river north every day? That's gotta be like almost a thousand dollars in parking charges a month. Not disputing chicago is crazy affordable relative to nyc or even dc. Just that there's no need to own a car if you live in the city. I can't imagine commuting downtown with a car on a regular basis especially considering that the L is tailored around shuttling people in/out of downtown.

Not the junior associate. When I was a junior associate, I did the RN/West Loop luxury apt without a car. Now that I am senior and have more money, I bought a fairly large house in an up and coming neighborhood. I am 3 blocks from the L, but am lazy and I do drive into the loop every day now. It is only $250 a month for parking. If I parked in the underground lot attached to my building it would be like $375. So both Res and previous anon are right

[Anonymous User]

As someone who worked at KE, KE Chicago is considerably less toxic than KE NY. NY biglaw is generally just the most toxic breed of biglaw, because NYers are obsessed with letting you know how big their nuts are as they drag them across your face. D.C. is just hyper-competitive nerds, but at least they know they're nerds. Chicago and California people tend to be more relaxed. Chicagoans know they can lose their job and not be assfucked by their $3,000/mo. studio, and Californians know there are ample homeless communities to join and bask in the good weather.

Regional differences are over stated. In Chicago renting = poor loser, and not having a car = poor loser, so there’s plenty of pressure to make money. Whereas in NY having your own rental apartment is #baller to the marketing girls with 3 roommates.

lmao dude tell me you've never lived in chicago without telling me you've never lived in chicago. It sounds like you're talking about Houston. God this is such a catastrophically bad take. Young professionals in the city don't own cars. Young professionals in the city rent. The cool thing is renting a sick place in like river north, old town, or somewhere with more space in lincoln park.

Junior associate in Chicago. I drive to work from my house, which I own. Maybe I'm in the minority but idk, seems like a lot of people at least have cars (there's this amazing invention called a garage, NY should try it) and the housing is very affordable.

You drive into the loop/river north every day? That's gotta be like almost a thousand dollars in parking charges a month. Not disputing chicago is crazy affordable relative to nyc or even dc. Just that there's no need to own a car if you live in the city. I can't imagine commuting downtown with a car on a regular basis especially considering that the L is tailored around shuttling people in/out of downtown.

I happen to live in a neighborhood where the el isn't that practical. Agree that for many it or the Metra works fine for daily commute. But I don't understand how you would do grocery shopping or costco etc. without a car. Most people have cars.

Parking in the loop isn't that bad. Can usually find via apps or daily specials for 15-16 a day. I go in 2-3 days a week so even adding in gas it's still only a couple hundred bucks (pre tax for the parking at least). Even monthly rates are about 400-500, not a thousand.