Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is Kirkland going to seriously enforce its RTO program? Any connected KE folks have thoughts on this. Thanks

In LA town hall, SPs said no one gives a shit if you come in if you don’t find it beneficial. Makes sense in LA where no one wants to spend 2 hours commuting. Can’t speak to other offices.

In TX they weren’t quite that explicit, but suggested that it would be enforced to the same degree as it was pre-COVID (aka not very strictly).

[Anonymous User]

The point is not that "if you have a heath problem you can stay home", the point is that now, with this mandatory RTO, the onus is on you, personally, to have to explain to each and every partner/case team for in-office meetings that you have to stay home, and thereby disclose your health problems to some extent.

If they just designed it differently, we could avoid that problem. So no, it's not "simple as that." Stop thinking that folks with no real-life issues outside their work is the baseline status quo for designing office policy. There are realistic alternatives possible that still can prioritize profits for businesses (as we see from the tech sector, for example).

"Baseline status quo for designing office policy" lol are you a 2020 or 2021 grad? Back in the "old" days we'd come into the office 5 days a week. Even the folks with "real life issues outside their work" were able to do this. Lawyers had a lot more flexibility but staff was expected to come in every day. Staff who are paid significantly less than you and who often have to commute from far flung suburbs where housing is less expensive. Get over yourself and get back to the office - you aren't special.

No, but I had cancer 2 years ago and still have chemo-related health complications that made the vaccine ineffective and am on the list for Evusheld monoclonal antibodies. It's not something I want to share with every partner who staffs me on their deal and expects me in the office T/W/TH.

[Anonymous User]

The point is not that "if you have a heath problem you can stay home", the point is that now, with this mandatory RTO, the onus is on you, personally, to have to explain to each and every partner/case team for in-office meetings that you have to stay home, and thereby disclose your health problems to some extent.

If they just designed it differently, we could avoid that problem. So no, it's not "simple as that." Stop thinking that folks with no real-life issues outside their work is the baseline status quo for designing office policy. There are realistic alternatives possible that still can prioritize profits for businesses (as we see from the tech sector, for example).

"Baseline status quo for designing office policy" lol are you a 2020 or 2021 grad? Back in the "old" days we'd come into the office 5 days a week. Even the folks with "real life issues outside their work" were able to do this. Lawyers had a lot more flexibility but staff was expected to come in every day. Staff who are paid significantly less than you and who often have to commute from far flung suburbs where housing is less expensive. Get over yourself and get back to the office - you aren't special.

No, but I had cancer 2 years ago and still have chemo-related health complications that made the vaccine ineffective and am on the list for Evusheld monoclonal antibodies. It's not something I want to share with every partner who staffs me on their deal and expects me in the office T/W/TH.

You should absolutely be able to WFH indefinitely, but I think having to explain this a handful of times to the partners in your group is just something you have to deal with.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if this isn’t a sentiment generally shared or felt among other associates, but I straight up do not intend to follow the RTO policy. Sure, I might go in for events but it will never be on a regular basis. I do bill hours - but will certainly put my relationship to the test with my cadre of SPs.

[Anonymous User]

Get over yourself and get back to the office - you aren't special.

No, but I had cancer 2 years ago and still have chemo-related health complications that made the vaccine ineffective and am on the list for Evusheld monoclonal antibodies.

If this isn't just a perfect Kirkland exchange. Someone gratuitously going out of their way to be an asshole and then being wrong anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Can anybody speak to how life is in the Bay Area offices? Is it easy to choose to work at either the PA/SF office?
Are there any in-office perks (e.g. free cafeteria, gym) to know about?
How are the teams there, specifically IP Litigation and Commercial Litigation?
And is the clerkship bonus still $50k with no increase in class standing for a one year clerkship?
Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Just wasted 40 minutes commuting into the office and an hour commuting home. Did not miss this shit.

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

[Anonymous User]

Just wasted 40 minutes commuting into the office and an hour commuting home. Did not miss this shit.

Feel the exact same way.

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

When will the firm announce special bonuses?

[thisismytlsuername]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

Long term real estate leases at expensive office towers = investment. Said differently, firms spends lots on office space and probably (?) wants it used

[thisismytlsuername]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

Long term real estate leases at expensive office towers = investment. Said differently, firms spends lots on office space and probably (?) wants it used

Eh, I don't think the money they're spending on leases is particularly worrisome if they're more profitable than ever working from home. Do they wish they had spent less? Probably. But I don't think the back to office push is driven by lease payments. I think it's driven by boomer partners who want to go back to the way they've always worked and want to torture junior associates the way they were tortured (before the wide adoption of cell phones and advent of portable email in the early 2000s, junior associates just had to sit around the office doing nothing if there was a chance they'd be needed, as there was no way to contact anyone other than a home landline back then).

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

I dont think so but the firm developed a brand new building on Pennsylvania Avenue in 2019 and is developing one on the Chicago River right now. It committed a lot of money toward physical office spaces just before Covid.

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

I dont think so but the firm developed a brand new building on Pennsylvania Avenue in 2019 and is developing one on the Chicago River right now. It committed a lot of money toward physical office spaces just before Covid.

The Chicago mothership was decided on and committed to during COVID.

From speaking with SPs, it's really not a RE thing, it's a culture and associate development thing. Understanding that this inevitably leads to every junior clamoring that they did just fine during WFH and are super responsive, etc., that was not a universal experience. And it's a very young partnership, the boomers are frequently the ones who care the least - it's the gen xers who tend to care about this stuff.

Just speaking on the corp side, there are a lot of steps in the process that often took place in-person pre-COVID - checklist calls were almost always in-person in a partner's office, same with negotiations, working through markups, etc. The veritable army of laterals takes effort to integrate and it's far easier to do that in-person.

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

I dont think so but the firm developed a brand new building on Pennsylvania Avenue in 2019 and is developing one on the Chicago River right now. It committed a lot of money toward physical office spaces just before Covid.

The Chicago mothership was decided on and committed to during COVID.

From speaking with SPs, it's really not a RE thing, it's a culture and associate development thing. Understanding that this inevitably leads to every junior clamoring that they did just fine during WFH and are super responsive, etc., that was not a universal experience. And it's a very young partnership, the boomers are frequently the ones who care the least - it's the gen xers who tend to care about this stuff.

Just speaking on the corp side, there are a lot of steps in the process that often took place in-person pre-COVID - checklist calls were almost always in-person in a partner's office, same with negotiations, working through markups, etc. The veritable army of laterals takes effort to integrate and it's far easier to do that in-person.

Right, so all of the above makes sense. But I don't think there's an analogue on the lit side. So it's likely just a matter of wanting parity.

[Anonymous User]

I can't speak for corp folks, but as a mid-level litigator I really don't see what these supposed benefits of in-office work are. Hands-on training? Team building? We litigators aren't gonna sit in a room together and read a Westlaw case out loud, or take turns marking up a brief after reading it quietly to ourselves. I really don't see the idea here. Are the in-person benefits all on the corp side?

Think the story would be a bit different if firms hadn’t invested in long term very very expensive real estate

Does KE own real estate?

I dont think so but the firm developed a brand new building on Pennsylvania Avenue in 2019 and is developing one on the Chicago River right now. It committed a lot of money toward physical office spaces just before Covid.

The Chicago mothership was decided on and committed to during COVID.

From speaking with SPs, it's really not a RE thing, it's a culture and associate development thing. Understanding that this inevitably leads to every junior clamoring that they did just fine during WFH and are super responsive, etc., that was not a universal experience. And it's a very young partnership, the boomers are frequently the ones who care the least - it's the gen xers who tend to care about this stuff.

Just speaking on the corp side, there are a lot of steps in the process that often took place in-person pre-COVID - checklist calls were almost always in-person in a partner's office, same with negotiations, working through markups, etc. The veritable army of laterals takes effort to integrate and it's far easier to do that in-person.

What if people don’t come back to the office?

[Anonymous User]

Does Kirkland give clerkship bonuses for state courts or specialized courts?

[Anonymous User]

Does Kirkland give clerkship bonuses for state courts or specialized courts?

State supreme courts are eligible for the same bonus as federal clerkships.

[Anonymous User]

Does Kirkland give clerkship bonuses for state courts or specialized courts?

State supreme courts are eligible for the same bonus as federal clerkships.

Does "federal clerkship" include Article I courts?

[Anonymous User]

Does KE clawback non-prorated signing bonuses if you lateral to in-house?

[Anonymous User]

Does KE clawback non-prorated signing bonuses if you lateral to in-house?

I think officially yes but in practice probably no, because they out a lot of effort into maintaining “alumni” relations and placing someone in-house is advantageous to the firm in the long term. I wouldn’t 1000% rely on that, but that’s my sense of it.

[Anonymous User]

Does Kirkland give clerkship bonuses for state courts or specialized courts?

State supreme courts are eligible for the same bonus as federal clerkships.

Does "federal clerkship" include Article I courts?

I don’t believe so, but you should check with the recruiter.

[Anonymous User]

The firm just announced they did $6 billion in revenue last year. Apparently Latham has been in the press because they were the "first" firm to exceed $5 billion in revenue and K&E came over the top by over $500 million. Truly insane. For a point of historical reference, Skadden led the industry by revenue in 2000 with about $1 billion.