2020 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[nahumya]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Which peers are they waiting for, exactly? Morgan Lewis, FF, Sherman, Allen & Overy, Willkie, all announced covid bonuses. Are they hoping to form a smaller group of hold-outs?

Also, I agree that the top NY firms should be paying more, but the current rates should be the floor rather than the ceiling. Cravath and SulCrom should be paying Wachtell bonuses. The V100 can absolutely afford the current associate salaries.

[Anonymous User]

(Anon because of posting history)

Also curious if other major markets manage to avoid the special bonuses. DC, for instance, is notoriously slow to move. None of the big DC-based firms will move unless a big out of town firm like Gibson or Latham moves first. It's just a stalemate at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Latham already paid special fall bonuses and Gibson doesn't usually make big announcements.

[Anonymous User]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

[JusticeJackson]

(Anon because of posting history)

Also curious if other major markets manage to avoid the special bonuses. DC, for instance, is notoriously slow to move. None of the big DC-based firms will move unless a big out of town firm like Gibson or Latham moves first. It's just a stalemate at this point.

Akin Gump has a huge emphasis on DC and has already agreed to pay the special bonus. Akin is a fine firm, but I think that puts a lot of pressure on other DC firms because it can’t be written off as a move by an uber elite firm or a New York firm.

[Anonymous User]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

This was said at the last Chicago quarterly associate's meeting. That should tell you who said it. And I hope you're right!

To another poster's question about what "peers" we might follow, I typically think of Sidley and Mayer Brown, since we're first and foremost a Chicago firm. But the other posters might be right that the NY office is moving up, so it makes sense to follow what comparable NYC firms are doing.

[Anonymous User]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

This was said at the last Chicago quarterly associate's meeting. That should tell you who said it. And I hope you're right!

To another poster's question about what "peers" we might follow, I typically think of Sidley and Mayer Brown, since we're first and foremost a Chicago firm. But the other posters might be right that the NY office is moving up, so it makes sense to follow what comparable NYC firms are doing.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm right. It seemed for a while that Winston wanted to turn-over a new leaf on associate morale from the 2012 and older no-offer summer horror stories that still get brought up on this board by matching the summer bonuses before any other Chicago-based firm, instituting the 20-week gender neutral parental leave policy, 100% offer rates the last few years for summers, etc. But them coming dangerously close to salary cuts, the stealth "layoffs" this summer, combined with the new legal support reimagined initiative all strike me as hints that they've abandoned trying to care about these types of things and what you heard at the meeting only confirms this. Hope I'm wrong.

[glitched]

If I get a bonus this year, my wife says we can buy a Tesla LETS GOOO

[Anonymous User]

Any speculation on the timing of the KE bonus announcement? It usually comes sometime in the last full week before Christmas, so are we thinking the phone calls start Thursday 17th and go into Friday 18th?

[lolwutpar]

Do I use my bonus to:

1. Re-do the yard extensively

2. Buy an LC 500 drop top

3. Invest

[Anonymous User]

Any speculation on the timing of the KE bonus announcement? It usually comes sometime in the last full week before Christmas, so are we thinking the phone calls start Thursday 17th and go into Friday 18th?

Pretty sure they are just doing emails this year not phone calls.

[Anonymous User]

Any speculation on the timing of the KE bonus announcement? It usually comes sometime in the last full week before Christmas, so are we thinking the phone calls start Thursday 17th and go into Friday 18th?

Pretty sure they are just doing emails this year not phone calls.

When's the annual (virtual) bonus meeting? Calendar invites would have gone out early December already in previous years.

[Anonymous User]

Any speculation on the timing of the KE bonus announcement? It usually comes sometime in the last full week before Christmas, so are we thinking the phone calls start Thursday 17th and go into Friday 18th?

Pretty sure they are just doing emails this year not phone calls.

When's the annual (virtual) bonus meeting? Calendar invites would have gone out early December already in previous years.

NSPs (me) don't get the invitation so I can't be sure anymore but I recall from my associate days that the meeting takes place a day or two before the actual payments are individually announced, so maybe expect an invitation late this week for a meeting early the week after.

I suspect people are going to get hard bonus numbers Friday December 18 just based on past history.

[Anonymous User]

NSPs (me) don't get the invitation so I can't be sure anymore but I recall from my associate days that the meeting takes place a day or two before the actual payments are individually announced, so maybe expect an invitation late this week for a meeting early the week after.

I suspect people are going to get hard bonus numbers Friday December 18 just based on past history.

I went back in my calendar for the past three years:

• 2017-the invitation for the bonus meeting went out 11/28 and meeting was on 12/19, individual memos out that night

• 2018-Invitation 12/5, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

• 2019-Invitation 12/4, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

This is baseless speculation, but I think that they're going to do it at or right before the holiday party (12/17).

[Anonymous User]

NSPs (me) don't get the invitation so I can't be sure anymore but I recall from my associate days that the meeting takes place a day or two before the actual payments are individually announced, so maybe expect an invitation late this week for a meeting early the week after.

I suspect people are going to get hard bonus numbers Friday December 18 just based on past history.

I went back in my calendar for the past three years:

• 2017-the invitation for the bonus meeting went out 11/28 and meeting was on 12/19, individual memos out that night

• 2018-Invitation 12/5, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

• 2019-Invitation 12/4, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

This is baseless speculation, but I think that they're going to do it at or right before the holiday party (12/17).

Chances that we're getting screwed over? I'm going to start reading tea leaves on why the invite is delayed this year.

[lolwutpar]

NSPs (me) don't get the invitation so I can't be sure anymore but I recall from my associate days that the meeting takes place a day or two before the actual payments are individually announced, so maybe expect an invitation late this week for a meeting early the week after.

I suspect people are going to get hard bonus numbers Friday December 18 just based on past history.

I went back in my calendar for the past three years:

• 2017-the invitation for the bonus meeting went out 11/28 and meeting was on 12/19, individual memos out that night

• 2018-Invitation 12/5, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

• 2019-Invitation 12/4, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

This is baseless speculation, but I think that they're going to do it at or right before the holiday party (12/17).

Is KE doing a virtual holiday party...? Do they send booze and food to your house or something?

[Anonymous User]

NSPs (me) don't get the invitation so I can't be sure anymore but I recall from my associate days that the meeting takes place a day or two before the actual payments are individually announced, so maybe expect an invitation late this week for a meeting early the week after.

I suspect people are going to get hard bonus numbers Friday December 18 just based on past history.

I went back in my calendar for the past three years:

• 2017-the invitation for the bonus meeting went out 11/28 and meeting was on 12/19, individual memos out that night

• 2018-Invitation 12/5, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

• 2019-Invitation 12/4, meeting 12/18, individual memos out that night

This is baseless speculation, but I think that they're going to do it at or right before the holiday party (12/17).

Chances that we're getting screwed over? I'm going to start reading tea leaves on why the invite is delayed this year.

I wouldn't read much into it. I chalk it up to a COVID year and needing to figure out how to coordinate this virtually. There's zero chance KE doesn't match the "Cravath" scale (meaning market + special fall) for all associates and NSPs. The bigger question is how much more generous they're going to be. In recent years my impression is that their average bonus multiplier has gotten increasingly stingy (e.g., they'll claim to be above market but a lot of the payouts are in the 1.05 - 1.15x range which isn't much to write home about). Word on the street is the firm has made money hand over fist this year so we'll see if that translates to increased comp for the toilers.

[Anonymous User]

Chances that we're getting screwed over? I'm going to start reading tea leaves on why the invite is delayed this year.

I'm a lateral from another firm who has been at K&E for a few years now. The chances that they'll screw us are never zero, and over the years I've come to trust the firm a lot less, but I don't think we're getting screwed over. Start with the Jon Ballis email saying they wouldn't match the DPW bonuses this fall but would "take them into account" at the end of the year. While we have all overlawyered the specific choice of words and I agree that there's some room in the language, I think there would be an actual mutiny if they did anything that looked like a non-match, and I don't think they're going to do it.

Additionally, and it's hard to share too much about this because I think I learned something I wasn't supposed to and I don't want to share anything that could make me even remotely identifiable, but I made a joke to a partner a few weeks ago and they responded with a statement that made me believe that they have already approved the bonus scale and that at least my personal bonus is going to be substantially above market.

I'm not sharing the bit about my own bonus to gloat. While it's not necessarily indicative of the firm as a whole, my rating is what you'd expect for my class year (i.e a new NSP generally has a 1, a rising sixth year generally has a 2 and a fifth year generally has a 3, though there are of course people who do better) and my hours are not super high -- probably between 2,000 and 2,100 -- so if the firm is consistent, that should mean good things for others.

[Anonymous User]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

This was said at the last Chicago quarterly associate's meeting. That should tell you who said it. And I hope you're right!

To another poster's question about what "peers" we might follow, I typically think of Sidley and Mayer Brown, since we're first and foremost a Chicago firm. But the other posters might be right that the NY office is moving up, so it makes sense to follow what comparable NYC firms are doing.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm right. It seemed for a while that Winston wanted to turn-over a new leaf on associate morale from the 2012 and older no-offer summer horror stories that still get brought up on this board by matching the summer bonuses before any other Chicago-based firm, instituting the 20-week gender neutral parental leave policy, 100% offer rates the last few years for summers, etc. But them coming dangerously close to salary cuts, the stealth "layoffs" this summer, combined with the new legal support reimagined initiative all strike me as hints that they've abandoned trying to care about these types of things and what you heard at the meeting only confirms this. Hope I'm wrong.

Spoke to a senior associate at W&S who indicated that they think the summer layoffs were regular turnover after reviews were possibly pushed off. Nothing related to firm's financials. As an incoming associate, I have my ears peeled to the bonus news. This same assoc, though is not holding their breath for bonuses this year, but I bet they match. Thanks for this discussion, it has been interesting. How have the practice groups been at the firm? I hear people in corporate are slammed.

[Anonymous User]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

This was said at the last Chicago quarterly associate's meeting. That should tell you who said it. And I hope you're right!

To another poster's question about what "peers" we might follow, I typically think of Sidley and Mayer Brown, since we're first and foremost a Chicago firm. But the other posters might be right that the NY office is moving up, so it makes sense to follow what comparable NYC firms are doing.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm right. It seemed for a while that Winston wanted to turn-over a new leaf on associate morale from the 2012 and older no-offer summer horror stories that still get brought up on this board by matching the summer bonuses before any other Chicago-based firm, instituting the 20-week gender neutral parental leave policy, 100% offer rates the last few years for summers, etc. But them coming dangerously close to salary cuts, the stealth "layoffs" this summer, combined with the new legal support reimagined initiative all strike me as hints that they've abandoned trying to care about these types of things and what you heard at the meeting only confirms this. Hope I'm wrong.

Spoke to a senior associate at W&S who indicated that they think the summer layoffs were regular turnover after reviews were possibly pushed off. Nothing related to firm's financials. As an incoming associate, I have my ears peeled to the bonus news. This same assoc, though is not holding their breath for bonuses this year, but I bet they match. Thanks for this discussion, it has been interesting. How have the practice groups been at the firm? I hear people in corporate are slammed.

In W&S litigation. Slammed. Better be a good bonus. I have no other insight on bonus rumors.

[RaceJudicata]

Winston (V40) has signaled that it likely will not pay special bonuses, but they've kept the door open depending on what the "market" does. I agree with the comment above that they're waiting for cover from a peer firm. That said, historically our announcement comes like clockwork about ten days from now, so it will be interesting to see what they do if none of our "peer" firms have moved by then.

Either way, it will be telling. They've always taken pride in paying "top of the market" comp, and they won't have that claim if they don't do special bonuses. They've already started trying to position "COVID" bonuses as an anomaly unique to certain NYC centric firms -- but I don't think they expect us to actually believe that.

I agree with the poster above that these bonuses might finally break the dam after all these years. It's never made sense for the top 100 firms to have essentially identical comp (I know certain firms cheat here and there). The question will be where the dividing line is and what the key metrics are, and what effect the bifurcation has on laterals/recruiting.

Curious who has signaled this at Winston? Would think I'm in a fairly well connected practice group and have not heard this? Think Winston has tried more and more to position itself as an NYC firm (expects this to become the biggest office within the next few years, focused on growth in that office, etc.) so to not do this would be surprising to me.

+1

This was said at the last Chicago quarterly associate's meeting. That should tell you who said it. And I hope you're right!

To another poster's question about what "peers" we might follow, I typically think of Sidley and Mayer Brown, since we're first and foremost a Chicago firm. But the other posters might be right that the NY office is moving up, so it makes sense to follow what comparable NYC firms are doing.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm right. It seemed for a while that Winston wanted to turn-over a new leaf on associate morale from the 2012 and older no-offer summer horror stories that still get brought up on this board by matching the summer bonuses before any other Chicago-based firm, instituting the 20-week gender neutral parental leave policy, 100% offer rates the last few years for summers, etc. But them coming dangerously close to salary cuts, the stealth "layoffs" this summer, combined with the new legal support reimagined initiative all strike me as hints that they've abandoned trying to care about these types of things and what you heard at the meeting only confirms this. Hope I'm wrong.

Spoke to a senior associate at W&S who indicated that they think the summer layoffs were regular turnover after reviews were possibly pushed off. Nothing related to firm's financials. As an incoming associate, I have my ears peeled to the bonus news. This same assoc, though is not holding their breath for bonuses this year, but I bet they match. Thanks for this discussion, it has been interesting. How have the practice groups been at the firm? I hear people in corporate are slammed.

Lol...

[Anonymous User]

Additionally, and it's hard to share too much about this because I think I learned something I wasn't supposed to and I don't want to share anything that could make me even remotely identifiable, but I made a joke to a partner a few weeks ago and they responded with a statement that made me believe that they have already approved the bonus scale and that at least my personal bonus is going to be substantially above market.

I don't know if average SPs have any insight into bonuses at KE, but anecdotally I have now heard of two SPs reacting the same way as the quote when bonuses are mentioned: heavily hinting at large bonuses. Of course, the less well-plugged in ones might just be thinking of the special fall bonuses (which KE is absolutely going to match) rather than an increase in the multipliers over the past few years, which is far from certain. 1.15x applied only to the base, with the special amount slapped on top, is not exactly market shattering.

[Anonymous User]

Is KE doing a virtual holiday party...? Do they send booze and food to your house or something?

Yes, they'll send booze to our house. "And more!"

Holiday fun is just around the corner…
We are excited to see you at our cross-office holiday party on Thursday, December 17. Mingle with your colleagues, meet new friends and enjoy festive entertainment, including:

• A photo booth and caricature artists, capture the evening’s memories
• A world-renowned magician and mentalist
• Live music, including a string trio and a highly acclaimed chorus
• Virtual classes, learn something new or refine your skills:
  • Champagne and wine demo
  • The art of holiday gift wrapping
  • And more!

It all seems like a huge waste of money and I think it raises the stakes for them because now if bonuses aren't as good as we expect, it will be even easier to say "we spent all that money on a fucking zoom party but they couldn't pay out?"

[Anonymous User]

What really raises the stakes is that multiple people I know at the firm have billed several consecutive 300+ hour months and so far have gotten stiffed on bonuses. I imagine people will walk if they're not really impressive bonuses.

[lolwutpar]

On the one hand, I respect they are trying. On the other hand, that sounds awful lol