Fall bonuses Forum

[legalpotato]

Can confirm S&C matched DPW class scale (at least for junior class years -- no window into senior class years for me). Friend showed me a screenshot of email timestamped around same time as S&C poster above posted, so looks legit.

(ATL didn't pick up the K&E news for like 12 hours after it broke here, so wouldn't hold my breath on them)

Outed for anon abuse? Was anon so that my friend (who I knew was tracking this thread but who didn’t want to post himself because he ironically didn’t trust anon function) would not be able to connect my username to my real life self (since a post referencing his screenshot showing up two minutes after I asked if it was chill to post it to TLS would effectively out me to him). He got a laugh out of proving his point anyway.

These mods are over the top these days...save outing anon abuse for people who are using the anon function to make mean/bullying comments.

Yeah I agree, this person should not have been outed, it was not anon abuse. That mod needs to be better in making that judgment call in this context.

Thirded. If discussing politics or something dumb, out for anon abuse. Should not be outed for discussing firm-specific info. ESPECIALLY BONSUES/COMPENSATION. Way to chill the #1 reason ppl come here.

[Anonymous User]

How about Goodwin? I think they matched surprisingly early back in 2018 during the push to $190k and summer bonuses.

If Ropes moves, they will too.

[cavalier1138]

Can confirm S&C matched DPW class scale (at least for junior class years -- no window into senior class years for me). Friend showed me a screenshot of email timestamped around same time as S&C poster above posted, so looks legit.

(ATL didn't pick up the K&E news for like 12 hours after it broke here, so wouldn't hold my breath on them)

Outed for anon abuse? Was anon so that my friend (who I knew was tracking this thread but who didn’t want to post himself because he ironically didn’t trust anon function) would not be able to connect my username to my real life self (since a post referencing his screenshot showing up two minutes after I asked if it was chill to post it to TLS would effectively out me to him). He got a laugh out of proving his point anyway.

These mods are over the top these days...save outing anon abuse for people who are using the anon function to make mean/bullying comments.

Yeah I agree, this person should not have been outed, it was not anon abuse. That mod needs to be better in making that judgment call in this context.

Thirded. If discussing politics or something dumb, out for anon abuse. Should not be outed for discussing firm-specific info. ESPECIALLY BONSUES/COMPENSATION. Way to chill the #1 reason ppl come here.

Hi, folks.

First, there's a thread for bitching about the mods in the Lounge. Feel free to use it.

Second, so there's no confusion on this thread: The anon feature is for when you're disclosing sensitive information about yourself. It is not to protect you from identifying yourself when you publish your "hot take" on how law firms compensate associates, nor is it to (in the case above) protect you from identifying yourself when repeating second- or third-hand information. No one has been outed for discussing firm-specific information as a primary source.

I don't know where anyone got the idea that we only out people for using the anon feature in a "mean" way. That's not the standard, nor has it ever been.

All the posts that have been outed were reported. I looked at them and saw no reason for the anon feature to be used. So I outed.

Since the suggestion above apparently wasn't clear for people who are supposed to be old enough to practice law: Further posts regarding moderation concerns go to the Moderation Q&A/Complaint Thread, where they have always gone.

[Anonymous User]

Any news from PW?

Back in 2018, I rememeber PW being pretty late in announcing the match and people around the firm were saying that PW basically will always wait for at least most of the V10 to move before they do. I'm assuming PW matches now, but announcement won't be for at least a couple days I think.

Anon because I'm at PW, but above anon is right.

The firm website explicitly states that ""Paul, Weiss matches the top compensation and benefits of its peer firms," and yet people ask this stupid question (will PW match?!?!?!) every time there's a raise or bonus. They matched in 2016 when NY went to 180K, they matched at 190K, they matched tech stipends, etc. When has PW ever failed to match? The only problem is that they make us wait until the market has just about fully moved, but we never get shafted. What other firm is this explicit about living up to top comp?

https://www.paulweiss.com/careers/lawyers/benefits

[Anonymous User]

Does PW match Kirkland bonuses or Cahill/many other firms above market bonuses every year?

what a weird post

[Anonymous User]

How about Goodwin? I think they matched surprisingly early back in 2018 during the push to $190k and summer bonuses.

If Ropes moves, they will too.

Goodwin moved first in 2018, and I’d be surprised if Ropes were a first mover this year from what I’ve heard

[Anonymous User]

Any news from PW?

Back in 2018, I rememeber PW being pretty late in announcing the match and people around the firm were saying that PW basically will always wait for at least most of the V10 to move before they do. I'm assuming PW matches now, but announcement won't be for at least a couple days I think.

Anon because I'm at PW, but above anon is right.

The firm website explicitly states that ""Paul, Weiss matches the top compensation and benefits of its peer firms," and yet people ask this stupid question (will PW match?!?!?!) every time there's a raise or bonus. They matched in 2016 when NY went to 180K, they matched at 190K, they matched tech stipends, etc. When has PW ever failed to match? The only problem is that they make us wait until the market has just about fully moved, but we never get shafted. What other firm is this explicit about living up to top comp?

https://www.paulweiss.com/careers/lawyers/benefits

Also at PW.

I think people in this instance are just less confident given the uncertainty of 2020. But of course, PW seems to be doing well this year as reiterated over and over by leadership. Anecdotally, almost everyone I know has been slammed for a long time (at least on the corporate side).

It's been mentioned several times by leadership that PW will always match the market, but will never be a market leader. I'm fine with that approach so long as it's true. (which obviously it has been over the years).

[Anonymous User]

Any news from PW?

Back in 2018, I rememeber PW being pretty late in announcing the match and people around the firm were saying that PW basically will always wait for at least most of the V10 to move before they do. I'm assuming PW matches now, but announcement won't be for at least a couple days I think.

Anon because I'm at PW, but above anon is right.

The firm website explicitly states that ""Paul, Weiss matches the top compensation and benefits of its peer firms," and yet people ask this stupid question (will PW match?!?!?!) every time there's a raise or bonus. They matched in 2016 when NY went to 180K, they matched at 190K, they matched tech stipends, etc. When has PW ever failed to match? The only problem is that they make us wait until the market has just about fully moved, but we never get shafted. What other firm is this explicit about living up to top comp?

https://www.paulweiss.com/careers/lawyers/benefits

Also at PW.

I think people in this instance are just less confident given the uncertainty of 2020. But of course, PW seems to be doing well this year as reiterated over and over by leadership. Anecdotally, almost everyone I know has been slammed for a long time (at least on the corporate side).

It's been mentioned several times by leadership that PW will always match the market, but will never be a market leader. I'm fine with that approach so long as it's true. (which obviously it has been over the years).

Also PW. Anecdotally, the optics of paying special associate bonuses seems to be top of mind for our partners (as i'm sure is the case elsewhere). Might be especially so here given how openly progressive our leadership is. We'll match after enough of the market has moved to give them sufficient CYA. Guessing 24 hours within Cravath.

[Anonymous User]

Any news from PW?

Back in 2018, I rememeber PW being pretty late in announcing the match and people around the firm were saying that PW basically will always wait for at least most of the V10 to move before they do. I'm assuming PW matches now, but announcement won't be for at least a couple days I think.

Anon because I'm at PW, but above anon is right.

The firm website explicitly states that ""Paul, Weiss matches the top compensation and benefits of its peer firms," and yet people ask this stupid question (will PW match?!?!?!) every time there's a raise or bonus. They matched in 2016 when NY went to 180K, they matched at 190K, they matched tech stipends, etc. When has PW ever failed to match? The only problem is that they make us wait until the market has just about fully moved, but we never get shafted. What other firm is this explicit about living up to top comp?

https://www.paulweiss.com/careers/lawyers/benefits

Also at PW.

I think people in this instance are just less confident given the uncertainty of 2020. But of course, PW seems to be doing well this year as reiterated over and over by leadership. Anecdotally, almost everyone I know has been slammed for a long time (at least on the corporate side).

It's been mentioned several times by leadership that PW will always match the market, but will never be a market leader. I'm fine with that approach so long as it's true. (which obviously it has been over the years).

Also PW. Anecdotally, the optics of paying special associate bonuses seems to be top of mind for our partners (as i'm sure is the case elsewhere). Might be especially so here given how openly progressive our leadership is. We'll match after enough of the market has moved to give them sufficient CYA. Guessing 24 hours within Cravath.

Also PW, and this is a frustrating response because the optics of paying partners millions every year don't counter the "openly progressive" views of the partners? Paying slammed associates is what requires special CYA movement from other firms?

[Anonymous User]

Any news from PW?

Back in 2018, I rememeber PW being pretty late in announcing the match and people around the firm were saying that PW basically will always wait for at least most of the V10 to move before they do. I'm assuming PW matches now, but announcement won't be for at least a couple days I think.

Anon because I'm at PW, but above anon is right.

The firm website explicitly states that ""Paul, Weiss matches the top compensation and benefits of its peer firms," and yet people ask this stupid question (will PW match?!?!?!) every time there's a raise or bonus. They matched in 2016 when NY went to 180K, they matched at 190K, they matched tech stipends, etc. When has PW ever failed to match? The only problem is that they make us wait until the market has just about fully moved, but we never get shafted. What other firm is this explicit about living up to top comp?

https://www.paulweiss.com/careers/lawyers/benefits

Also at PW.

I think people in this instance are just less confident given the uncertainty of 2020. But of course, PW seems to be doing well this year as reiterated over and over by leadership. Anecdotally, almost everyone I know has been slammed for a long time (at least on the corporate side).

It's been mentioned several times by leadership that PW will always match the market, but will never be a market leader. I'm fine with that approach so long as it's true. (which obviously it has been over the years).

Also PW. Anecdotally, the optics of paying special associate bonuses seems to be top of mind for our partners (as i'm sure is the case elsewhere). Might be especially so here given how openly progressive our leadership is. We'll match after enough of the market has moved to give them sufficient CYA. Guessing 24 hours within Cravath.

Also PW, and this is a frustrating response because the optics of paying partners millions every year don't counter the "openly progressive" views of the partners? Paying slammed associates is what requires special CYA movement from other firms?

No disagreement from me lol. I suspect in their minds associates are already overpaid and partners clearly deserve/earned their comp

[Anonymous User]

Curious whether there's any interplay between fall bonuses and first year start dates. Are Debevoise/S&C/DPW/Milbank first years starting on time?

[POPTOP]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

[Anonymous User]

Curious whether there's any interplay between fall bonuses and first year start dates. Are Debevoise/S&C/DPW/Milbank first years starting on time?

I’d imagine this has more to do with summer associate hiring/recruiting timing. With the recruiting largely pushed to early 2021, a special market bonus and then a strong EOY bonus will bode well for those firms in 2021.

[Anonymous User]

Curious whether there's any interplay between fall bonuses and first year start dates. Are Debevoise/S&C/DPW/Milbank first years starting on time?

I’d imagine this has more to do with summer associate hiring/recruiting timing. With the recruiting largely pushed to early 2021, a special market bonus and then a strong EOY bonus will bode well for those firms in 2021.

I only ask bc Proskauer just delayed first year start dates to end of January. Unclear whether it's a move to make some additional room for fall bonuses, to dig in to the narrative that PR can't afford special bonuses, or just innocuous.

[DoveBodyWash]

Totally unfounded prediction is that CSM comes out higher than DPW for fifth years and up. They have so few seniors that it would be minimal added cost to reclaim the title.

[Anonymous User]

How about Goodwin? I think they matched surprisingly early back in 2018 during the push to $190k and summer bonuses.

If Ropes moves, they will too.

Goodwin moved first in 2018, and I’d be surprised if Ropes were a first mover this year from what I’ve heard

Care to elaborate on what you've heard about Ropes, or is this mostly based on the voluntary deferral program (and the probably reasonable assumption that has at least a partially financial motive)?

[JusticeSquee]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/debevoise-bonuses/?rf=1

"It looks like Kirkland‘s not-so-subtle ploy to try and and convince Biglaw to back away from the special bonuses sweeping the industry isn’t really working."

It is hilarious how much (deservedly) bad press K&E is going to get for not paying out this special bonus. They better deliver some market-shattering brownies in December, otherwise recruiting in January may take a hit. Milbank did better than expected after they were first-movers two years back. Covington NY is having a hard time filling their NY office, maybe in part due to their stinginess with compensation. Odd for K&E to make such a mis-step.

[Anonymous User]

How about Goodwin? I think they matched surprisingly early back in 2018 during the push to $190k and summer bonuses.

If Ropes moves, they will too.

Goodwin moved first in 2018, and I’d be surprised if Ropes were a first mover this year from what I’ve heard

Care to elaborate on what you've heard about Ropes, or is this mostly based on the voluntary deferral program (and the probably reasonable assumption that has at least a partially financial motive)?

Choate already does the long-term bonus program where associates automatically earn an additional $25K (for hitting billable hours requirement 2 years in a row), $37.5K (3 years in a row), or $50K (4 years in a row) on top of normal market bonus. So the Ropes/Goodwin Boston offices may feel a little additional pressure to get the ball rolling.

[TigerIsBack]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/debevoise-bonuses/?rf=1

"It looks like Kirkland‘s not-so-subtle ploy to try and and convince Biglaw to back away from the special bonuses sweeping the industry isn’t really working."

It is hilarious how much (deservedly) bad press K&E is going to get for not paying out this special bonus. They better deliver some market-shattering brownies in December, otherwise recruiting in January may take a hit. Milbank did better than expected after they were first-movers two years back. Covington NY is having a hard time filling their NY office, maybe in part due to their stinginess with compensation. Odd for K&E to make such a mis-step.

It's especially surprising considering how much it seems to be known as a sweatshop (at least, that's been my impression). I thought people only went there for the above market comp, so not matching these bonuses seems especially strange.

[POPTOP]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/debevoise-bonuses/?rf=1

"It looks like Kirkland‘s not-so-subtle ploy to try and and convince Biglaw to back away from the special bonuses sweeping the industry isn’t really working."

It is hilarious how much (deservedly) bad press K&E is going to get for not paying out this special bonus. They better deliver some market-shattering brownies in December, otherwise recruiting in January may take a hit. Milbank did better than expected after they were first-movers two years back. Covington NY is having a hard time filling their NY office, maybe in part due to their stinginess with compensation. Odd for K&E to make such a mis-step.

It's especially surprising considering how much it seems to be known as a sweatshop (at least, that's been my impression). I thought people only went there for the above market comp, so not matching these bonuses seems especially strange.

they will do something. they have miscalculated the appetite of the market to retain their top level associates at any cost. many of my colleagues in class of 2015 there are already in discussions with their sps about it. promises are being made in one on ones across the top performing teams in the ny office and its only a matter of time until it extends into a public statement. everyone else is just going the easy route and will match the dpw numbers and firms w/ hours requirements will match the millbank amounts. there are town halls for many firms later in the week where announcements will be made.

[Anonymous User]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/debevoise-bonuses/?rf=1

"It looks like Kirkland‘s not-so-subtle ploy to try and and convince Biglaw to back away from the special bonuses sweeping the industry isn’t really working."

It is hilarious how much (deservedly) bad press K&E is going to get for not paying out this special bonus. They better deliver some market-shattering brownies in December, otherwise recruiting in January may take a hit. Milbank did better than expected after they were first-movers two years back. Covington NY is having a hard time filling their NY office, maybe in part due to their stinginess with compensation. Odd for K&E to make such a mis-step.

It's especially surprising considering how much it seems to be known as a sweatshop (at least, that's been my impression). I thought people only went there for the above market comp, so not matching these bonuses seems especially strange.

they will do something. they have miscalculated the appetite of the market to retain their top level associates at any cost. many of my colleagues in class of 2015 there are already in discussions with their sps about it. promises are being made in one on ones across the top performing teams in the ny office and its only a matter of time until it extends into a public statement. everyone else is just going the easy route and will match the dpw numbers and firms w/ hours requirements will match the millbank amounts. there are town halls for many firms later in the week where announcements will be made.

K&E midlevel here. Do folks really straight up ask equity partners about compensation? Seems wild to me, not something that I'd imagine comes up naturally. Don't even know how to broach the subject given the remote work enviornment.

[POPTOP]

honestly, everyone just needs to relax. everyone in NY is going to pay it. well, except for K&E. and even they might cave.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/debevoise-bonuses/?rf=1

"It looks like Kirkland‘s not-so-subtle ploy to try and and convince Biglaw to back away from the special bonuses sweeping the industry isn’t really working."

It is hilarious how much (deservedly) bad press K&E is going to get for not paying out this special bonus. They better deliver some market-shattering brownies in December, otherwise recruiting in January may take a hit. Milbank did better than expected after they were first-movers two years back. Covington NY is having a hard time filling their NY office, maybe in part due to their stinginess with compensation. Odd for K&E to make such a mis-step.

It's especially surprising considering how much it seems to be known as a sweatshop (at least, that's been my impression). I thought people only went there for the above market comp, so not matching these bonuses seems especially strange.

they will do something. they have miscalculated the appetite of the market to retain their top level associates at any cost. many of my colleagues in class of 2015 there are already in discussions with their sps about it. promises are being made in one on ones across the top performing teams in the ny office and its only a matter of time until it extends into a public statement. everyone else is just going the easy route and will match the dpw numbers and firms w/ hours requirements will match the millbank amounts. there are town halls for many firms later in the week where announcements will be made.

K&E midlevel here. Do folks really straight up ask equity partners about compensation? Seems wild to me, not something that I'd imagine comes up naturally. Don't even know how to broach the subject given the remote work enviornment.

it depends where you are in the food chain. 5th / 6th years who are in good standing and on a progression pathway (rather than spinning wheels) in top level groups generally have pretty wide open lines of communication with their partners who want to keep them around. it all depends on individual relationships. i've had those conversations at both my current firm and my previous shop.

[Anonymous User]

K&E midlevel here. Do folks really straight up ask equity partners about compensation? Seems wild to me, not something that I'd imagine comes up naturally. Don't even know how to broach the subject given the remote work enviornment.

This is a good question that I have thought about a lot recently. The reason I'd not feel comfortable straight-up asking one of the higher-up partners I work with is for fear of annoying or aggravating that person and then not getting work from them in the future. And my firm runs on that get-your-own work system. But at firms where there is a centralized work assignment system, is the feeling different? Would associates feel more comfortable straight up emailing bigwig partners and asking comp questions? Genuinely curious.

[Anonymous User]

Do the announcements ever come out during business hours? Seems like they always come out post 4:00 pm EST.

Also, Gibson tell us the same thing that PW says re: we will pay top compensation, but not be a leader.

[Anonymous User]

K&E midlevel here. Do folks really straight up ask equity partners about compensation? Seems wild to me, not something that I'd imagine comes up naturally. Don't even know how to broach the subject given the remote work enviornment.

This is a good question that I have thought about a lot recently. The reason I'd not feel comfortable straight-up asking one of the higher-up partners I work with is for fear of annoying or aggravating that person and then not getting work from them in the future. And my firm runs on that get-your-own work system. But at firms where there is a centralized work assignment system, is the feeling different? Would associates feel more comfortable straight up emailing bigwig partners and asking comp questions? Genuinely curious.

Not at KE but echo the other poster on it depending on individual relationships. It’s not unusual for senior associates to have friendly/close relationships with equity partners, especially the more junior partners