Layoff Predictions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if firms with postings still are still actively looking? I’ve been looking to move to a different practice group and am wondering if firms are actually still looking.

[QContinuum]

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PSA: No more armchair epidemiology/philosophy/public health/"value of life" debates in this thread. We've already moved posts to the Lounge quarantine thread - http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=304928 - multiple times. Any further derailing of this thread with these off-topic speculations and debates will result in warnings and, if needed, bans. Feel free to continue those debates in the Lounge thread, but not in this thread, which should remain focused on layoff news and predictions.
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[Lsatkings.com]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

[wwwcol]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

Why are you assuming ppl would get severance packages?

[Anonymous User]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

Why are you assuming ppl would get severance packages?

Anon who reported dc layoffs. There was no severance and only a month of website time.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if firms with postings still are still actively looking? I’ve been looking to move to a different practice group and am wondering if firms are actually still looking.

I asked our partners and PW is still hiring. Litigation was at overcapacity before all this so probably more difficult now but litigation hours seemed to have picked up. But restructuring and corporate groups are very busy right now, large uptick in new matters. Finance is busiest for now but M&A and securities also have plenty of work.

[Lsatkings.com]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

Why are you assuming ppl would get severance packages?

True. Did people receive in 2008? Though it seems we are in a worser situation this time around.

[QContinuum]

Moderator hat on
I've split the discussion of L&E/contractual implications of associate paycuts off into a separate thread - see http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=304952. It's related to legal employment, so I've kept it in Legal Employment instead of shuttling it off the Lounge (as with the armchair epidemiology/philosophy/public health/"value of life" stuff that polluted this thread earlier). But, that discussion obviously has nothing to do with layoff predictions.

Please keep this thread focused on layoff/paycut/etc. news and predictions.
Moderator hat off

[TigerIsBack]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

Why are you assuming ppl would get severance packages?

True. Did people receive in 2008? Though it seems we are in a worser situation this time around.

Would also be interested to know this.

[Anonymous User]

I'd be interested in knowing what severance packages would look like. For instance, getting 3 months salary when getting laid off is not the worst thing.

Why are you assuming ppl would get severance packages?

True. Did people receive in 2008? Though it seems we are in a worser situation this time around.

Would also be interested to know this.

Anecdotally, Latham gave 6 months severance when they Latham'ed their associates in 2009. https://abovethelaw.com/2009/02/nationw ... 250-staff/

O'Melveny gave between 3-7 months severance based on tenure. https://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/nationw ... 110-staff/

Most of the ATL and Law360 articles announcing layoffs don't contain details on severance, but it seems like either 3 or 6 months severance is (was) standard.

[Anonymous User]

Procopio (San Diego based firm) has laid off attorneys and staff

Can you elaborate more? How many attorneys? How many staff? What is the general outlook at the firm? I was contemplating lateraling to the firm soon and information about this would be extremely helpful.

[Anonymous User]

Procopio (San Diego based firm) has laid off attorneys and staff

Can you elaborate more? How many attorneys? How many staff? What is the general outlook at the firm? I was contemplating lateraling to the firm soon and information about this would be extremely helpful.

Anon who posted about the layoffs. Per my friend who has a connection at Procopio, it was just a handful of attorneys and several foreign legal consultants. I don't know any more than that, but I wouldn't be too concerned (anecdotal, but I went to college with a relatively junior attorney at the firm and they were not laid off).

[Anonymous User]

Procopio (San Diego based firm) has laid off attorneys and staff

Can you elaborate more? How many attorneys? How many staff? What is the general outlook at the firm? I was contemplating lateraling to the firm soon and information about this would be extremely helpful.

Anon who posted about the layoffs. Per my friend who has a connection at Procopio, it was just a handful of attorneys and several foreign legal consultants. I don't know any more than that, but I wouldn't be too concerned (anecdotal, but I went to college with a relatively junior attorney at the firm and they were not laid off).

Thanks for the intel. Do you know if there were any salary cuts?

[Anonymous User]

Procopio (San Diego based firm) has laid off attorneys and staff

Can you elaborate more? How many attorneys? How many staff? What is the general outlook at the firm? I was contemplating lateraling to the firm soon and information about this would be extremely helpful.

Anon who posted about the layoffs. Per my friend who has a connection at Procopio, it was just a handful of attorneys and several foreign legal consultants. I don't know any more than that, but I wouldn't be too concerned (anecdotal, but I went to college with a relatively junior attorney at the firm and they were not laid off).

Thanks for the intel. Do you know if there were any salary cuts?

No problem. Not that I heard, but I really don't know.

[objctnyrhnr]

What do we think the chances are that this will hit associates at relatively strong (but perhaps not utterly elite) market-paying firms? Call it roughly vault 20-50.

I haven’t yet heard of pay cuts/layoffs at a biglaw firm where my first thought was “oh wow this isn’t good—that’s a really solid firm.”

[giggaman1228]

I love the phrase "utterly elite." Lawyers are so hilarious. Most really good firms are not having cuts. At those firms only the M&A types really have cause for concern...I know lit is slammed at firms like latham

[objctnyrhnr]

I love the phrase "utterly elite." Lawyers are so hilarious. Most really good firms are not having cuts. At those firms only the M&A types really have cause for concern...I know lit is slammed at firms like latham

Yeah I mean I think all firms that went to 190 market which were strong enough to actually be able to afford it (as opposed to faking it) are to a degree elite. They have fortune 100 clients, former scotus clerks and solicitor generals, etc. partners bounce between them frequently. it’s these that I’m asking about.

Anyway, within that tier, you obviously have the top of the top—about which there’s definitely no worry. Most of the firms in this upper tier were also fine in 2009.

(One might wonder where Latham falls in light of its behavior in 2009.)

[layoffslayoffs]

Is this abovethelaw tracker that someone linked being updated in real time? The article has a date of Apr. 2 but the list is longer than the one on here.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/04/the-cov ... o-survive/

[Anonymous User]

I have a friend at Goodwin who knows that some staff have been laid off due to coronavirus. And Goodwin apparently has regularly scheduled midyear reviews that are occurring now so some associates are terrified (my friend included).

[Bllljd115]

The other huge factor - which is effectively unknowable to most junior associates - is firm debt. Some firms carry zero debt. Partner draws may take a hit and that may lead to layoffs depending on each partnership. A smart partnership is anticipating what they think the post-COVID landscape will look like and whether they need to adjust staffing downward over the next few months to reach that baseline. A greedy or scared partnership will start cutting now. In the end, you can have excess capacity for the next 2 months, but you don't want excess capacity for the next year. (But that can be dealt with through stealth layoffs.)

But at firms with a lot of debt (who use that debt to smooth out the payments to partners each month), the existence of bank covenants is a complicating factor. The partners are going to want to cut expenses fast unless the banks offer them relief.

[PartiallyLearnedHand]

Is this going to affect incoming associates? I guess to clarify, how worried should incoming associates be of getting offers rescinded? I understand deferrals are probably likely at a lot of firms, which sucks, but at least you still have a job. How quick will firms be to rescind offers though (particularly intrigued about incoming classes of 10-25 associates, rather than 50+)?

[LHand1993]

Orrick just announced pay cuts. But more importantly for incoming associates, is deferring them until January 2021. Is this going to be the trend? I'm an incoming associate at a V60 that hasn't announced anything, but really worried about getting deferred now--I was really hoping we'd be starting shortly after the bar because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do financially. 4 months is $64K!!!

[nealric]

Orrick just announced pay cuts. But more importantly for incoming associates, is deferring them until January 2021. Is this going to be the trend? I'm an incoming associate at a V60 that hasn't announced anything, but really worried about getting deferred now--I was really hoping we'd be starting shortly after the bar because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do financially. 4 months is $64K!!!

I was there back in 2010 (though I stayed in school with an LLM). You'll probably still get your salary advance or bar stipend (depending on how your firm structures it). One thing you can do is ask for a forbearance on your first loan payments if your firm defers. It will cost you some in interest, but better than nothing. I'd consider looking for a summer job now, especially if your state's bar exam is likely to be postponed. I worked during my bar summer. It's not ideal, but if you had the credentials to get biglaw, you have the ability to work and pass the bar.

[LHand1993]

Orrick just announced pay cuts. But more importantly for incoming associates, is deferring them until January 2021. Is this going to be the trend? I'm an incoming associate at a V60 that hasn't announced anything, but really worried about getting deferred now--I was really hoping we'd be starting shortly after the bar because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do financially. 4 months is $64K!!!

I was there back in 2010 (though I stayed in school with an LLM). You'll probably still get your salary advance or bar stipend (depending on how your firm structures it). One thing you can do is ask for a forbearance on your first loan payments if your firm defers. It will cost you some in interest, but better than nothing. I'd consider looking for a summer job now, especially if your state's bar exam is likely to be postponed. I worked during my bar summer. It's not ideal, but if you had the credentials to get biglaw, you have the ability to work and pass the bar.

I'm in NY, so we've been rescheduled for September 9th. We've already signed our loan agreements for a $10k advance for the summer, so that will definitely help out. I have some RA work right now, but a major difference between now and 2010 is that I couldn't even get a job at McDonald's right now if I wanted it. I'm fortunate enough to have people I can go to for financial support--but deferments are going to be way more crushing in an economy where you have to stand 6 ft away from everyone and toilet paper is borderline currency.

[Anonymous User]

I believe this is the proper thread for this comment. My firm’s transactional group has slowed considerably. I have had under 10 hours of work each of the past 2 weeks, and relatively slow even before then. This week I was asked to take a secondment at a large client, in a field in which I do not practice. I am a 4/5 year associate. My firm treats associates well, and fairly, and I very strongly suspect this secondment is in lieu of simply letting me go.

Has anyone else experienced something similar over the past month? Is this the beginning of the long kiss goodbye for me?