Columbia EIP 2016 Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

W&C isn't in NYC and Wachtell can be had at the bottom of the bid list so no worries there.

With a 3.71 you're in a good spot. Don't get too cute with the bid list trying to turn it into some strategic masterpiece. Make sure you get the handful of firms you really want, even if you rank them 5+ spots ahead of FFB, and then fill in the rest however you'd like.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone comment on my bidlist so far? I really want D.C. lit, but I'm low stone (3.47 GPA)

1. Kirkland & Ellis (N.Y.)(1)
2. Hogan Lovells US (D.C.)(3)
3. Gibson, Dunn (N.Y.)(3)
4. Debevoise (N.Y.)(4)
5. Sidley Austin (D.C.)(6)
6. Weil (N.Y.)(6)
7. Milbank (N.Y.)(8)
8. Cahill (N.Y.)(12)
9. Paul, Weiss (N.Y.)(11)
10. Akin (N.Y.)(14)
11. Cleary (N.Y.)(14)
12. Davis Polk (N.Y.)(15)
13. Akin (D.C.)(18)
14. Gibson, Dunn (D.C.)(18)
15. Fried, Frank (N.Y.)(16)
16. Arnold & Porter (D.C.)(19)
17. Covington (D.C.)(20)
18. Skadden (D.C.)(20)
19. Crowell (D.C.)(21)
20. Jones Day (D.C.)(22)
21. Latham (D.C.)(23)
22. Cravath (N.Y.)(23)
23. Jones Day (N.Y.)(24)
24. Kirkland & Ellis (D.C.)(27)
25. Wilmer Hale (D.C.)(27)
26. Simpson Thacher (N.Y.)(27)
27. Paul, Weiss (D.C.)(29)
28. O’Melveny (D.C.)(*)

Bump for new page. Any glaring oversights? Am I overreaching?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Can someone comment on my bidlist so far? I really want D.C. lit, but I'm low stone (3.47 GPA)

1. Kirkland & Ellis (N.Y.)(1)
2. Hogan Lovells US (D.C.)(3)
3. Gibson, Dunn (N.Y.)(3)
4. Debevoise (N.Y.)(4)
5. Sidley Austin (D.C.)(6)
6. Weil (N.Y.)(6)
7. Milbank (N.Y.)(8)
8. Cahill (N.Y.)(12)
9. Paul, Weiss (N.Y.)(11)
10. Akin (N.Y.)(14)
11. Cleary (N.Y.)(14)
12. Davis Polk (N.Y.)(15)
13. Akin (D.C.)(18)
14. Gibson, Dunn (D.C.)(18)
15. Fried, Frank (N.Y.)(16)
16. Arnold & Porter (D.C.)(19)
17. Covington (D.C.)(20)
18. Skadden (D.C.)(20)
19. Crowell (D.C.)(21)
20. Jones Day (D.C.)(22)
21. Latham (D.C.)(23)
22. Cravath (N.Y.)(23)
23. Jones Day (N.Y.)(24)
24. Kirkland & Ellis (D.C.)(27)
25. Wilmer Hale (D.C.)(27)
26. Simpson Thacher (N.Y.)(27)
27. Paul, Weiss (D.C.)(29)
28. O’Melveny (D.C.)(*)

Bump for new page. Any glaring oversights? Am I overreaching?

You've got no breathing room on that list and are liable to miss a bunch because you're only a spot or two above FFB. Take out about five of your least favorite of that list and put some less popular ones on the end.

Also, you can safely forget CovingTTTon DC at 3.47 unless you're currently blowing any partners.

[Anonymous User]

3.61 GPA, DC litigation is the goal. WH, Cov, or BSF possible? End goal is hopefully USAO or fed agency. What DC lit places should I be including?

[Anonymous User]

Where are all you DC lit people hiding during the year? Thought I was almost the only one

[Anonymous User]

For mass mailing:

What should I do if I don't know anyone personally at a firm that's coming to EIP?
Which firms should I mass mail if I'm below median?

[Anonymous User]

Can someone comment on my bidlist so far? I really want D.C. lit, but I'm low stone (3.47 GPA)

1. Kirkland & Ellis (N.Y.)(1)
2. Hogan Lovells US (D.C.)(3)
3. Gibson, Dunn (N.Y.)(3)
4. Debevoise (N.Y.)(4)
5. Sidley Austin (D.C.)(6)
6. Weil (N.Y.)(6)
7. Milbank (N.Y.)(8)
8. Cahill (N.Y.)(12)
9. Paul, Weiss (N.Y.)(11)
10. Akin (N.Y.)(14)
11. Cleary (N.Y.)(14)
12. Davis Polk (N.Y.)(15)
13. Akin (D.C.)(18)
14. Gibson, Dunn (D.C.)(18)
15. Fried, Frank (N.Y.)(16)
16. Arnold & Porter (D.C.)(19)
17. Covington (D.C.)(20)
18. Skadden (D.C.)(20)
19. Crowell (D.C.)(21)
20. Jones Day (D.C.)(22)
21. Latham (D.C.)(23)
22. Cravath (N.Y.)(23)
23. Jones Day (N.Y.)(24)
24. Kirkland & Ellis (D.C.)(27)
25. Wilmer Hale (D.C.)(27)
26. Simpson Thacher (N.Y.)(27)
27. Paul, Weiss (D.C.)(29)
28. O’Melveny (D.C.)(*)

Bump for new page. Any glaring oversights? Am I overreaching?

You can't interview at more than one JD office

[Anonymous User]

Can someone comment on my bidlist so far? I really want D.C. lit, but I'm low stone (3.47 GPA)

1. Kirkland & Ellis (N.Y.)(1)
2. Hogan Lovells US (D.C.)(3)
3. Gibson, Dunn (N.Y.)(3)
4. Debevoise (N.Y.)(4)
5. Sidley Austin (D.C.)(6)
6. Weil (N.Y.)(6)
7. Milbank (N.Y.)(8)
8. Cahill (N.Y.)(12)
9. Paul, Weiss (N.Y.)(11)
10. Akin (N.Y.)(14)
11. Cleary (N.Y.)(14)
12. Davis Polk (N.Y.)(15)
13. Akin (D.C.)(18)
14. Gibson, Dunn (D.C.)(18)
15. Fried, Frank (N.Y.)(16)
16. Arnold & Porter (D.C.)(19)
17. Covington (D.C.)(20)
18. Skadden (D.C.)(20)
19. Crowell (D.C.)(21)
20. Jones Day (D.C.)(22)
21. Latham (D.C.)(23)
22. Cravath (N.Y.)(23)
23. Jones Day (N.Y.)(24)
24. Kirkland & Ellis (D.C.)(27)
25. Wilmer Hale (D.C.)(27)
26. Simpson Thacher (N.Y.)(27)
27. Paul, Weiss (D.C.)(29)
28. O’Melveny (D.C.)(*)

Bump for new page. Any glaring oversights? Am I overreaching?

You can't interview at more than one JD office

Thanks guys! I'll try to make more room for my top firms, and I'll remove Covington D.C. and one of the Jones Day offices

[Anonymous User]

About mass mailing: working abroad and won't be back in NYC until a few days before the EIP. Do I still mass mail now and say I'd like to see them before or during EIP? Or wait until bid results are out and reach out only to the ones that I don't get?

[John_Luther1989]

About mass mailing: working abroad and won't be back in NYC until a few days before the EIP. Do I still mass mail now and say I'd like to see them before or during EIP? Or wait until bid results are out and reach out only to the ones that I don't get?

In your very specific situation, waiting until lottery results come out is the move. Even if you email a firm now, you won't be able to see them until they're just about to come to EIP anyway, so I'm not sure if they'll bring you in that close.

Also, just to clarify, when you go to a firm pre-EIP, you are almost never (like >95% of the time) going in for a screener. Pre-EIP interviews are insta-callbacks (i.e. 4 interviews and a lunch).

[Anonymous User]

What is the cutoff GPA to be considering Wachtell?

[pinkiepie]

What is the cutoff GPA to be considering Wachtell?

At least 3.7 to consider it seriously. If you have above a 3.6, especially with good WE or URM, I'd say it's worth a bid since FFB is pretty far down, but it's a longshot.

[Anonymous User]

About mass mailing: working abroad and won't be back in NYC until a few days before the EIP. Do I still mass mail now and say I'd like to see them before or during EIP? Or wait until bid results are out and reach out only to the ones that I don't get?

In your very specific situation, waiting until lottery results come out is the move. Even if you email a firm now, you won't be able to see them until they're just about to come to EIP anyway, so I'm not sure if they'll bring you in that close.

Also, just to clarify, when you go to a firm pre-EIP, you are almost never (like >95% of the time) going in for a screener. Pre-EIP interviews are insta-callbacks (i.e. 4 interviews and a lunch).

I'm doing an SA in a secondary market but am bidding mostly NYC firms for EIP. Would you also recommend that I not bother mass mailing? Even if the firm wanted to bring me in for an interview pre-EIP, I can't imagine I would be able to fly up until after my SA is over (third week of July). As for firms in this market, I'm not sure how I could explain needing to be gone for that length of time

[John_Luther1989]

About mass mailing: working abroad and won't be back in NYC until a few days before the EIP. Do I still mass mail now and say I'd like to see them before or during EIP? Or wait until bid results are out and reach out only to the ones that I don't get?

In your very specific situation, waiting until lottery results come out is the move. Even if you email a firm now, you won't be able to see them until they're just about to come to EIP anyway, so I'm not sure if they'll bring you in that close.

Also, just to clarify, when you go to a firm pre-EIP, you are almost never (like >95% of the time) going in for a screener. Pre-EIP interviews are insta-callbacks (i.e. 4 interviews and a lunch).

I'm doing an SA in a secondary market but am bidding mostly NYC firms for EIP. Would you also recommend that I not bother mass mailing? Even if the firm wanted to bring me in for an interview pre-EIP, I can't imagine I would be able to fly up until after my SA is over (third week of July). As for firms in this market, I'm not sure how I could explain needing to be gone for that length of time

If you're in the US and can afford to take a flight to NY, I'd say still mass mail and try to interview pre-EIP. A lot of firms give SAs 1-2 personal days off they can take whenever. If yours does this, take advantage and fly to NY on some Wednesday night and have interviews scheduled for the rest of the week. 2 days can be up to 4 callbacks.

If your firm doesn't give SAs days off, I'd say try to get interviews/offers in the market you're in for now. Third week of July isn't at all too late to do some pre-EIP stuff, so set those NY ones up for that window

To the international person: My assumption was that you wouldn't be back stateside until the first week in August literally right before EIP starts. If you'll be back earlier, for sure try to get interviews. If nothing else, emailing firms about general interest can yield auto-callbacks that take place when all the screener callbacks happen. You don't get the benefit of a pre-EIP offer, but that's one less screener you have to do and you get a callback out of it.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much in advance! You guys are awesome.

GPA: 3.66. Targeting SF Bay. Fairly significant ties in norcal and socal. Targeting tax but would be happy to work in corp if that is the only offer I get. Litigation would probably not be my thing but I'm trying to keep an open mind because there aren't that many jobs in the area period.

4 years of W/E relevant to tax, semi relevant to corporate.

Are there any big NY firms with satellite offices in SF that I missed? Should I bid multiple offices of the same firm (I did this with a couple of the big NY firms).

Bid Employer FFB
1 Baker & McKenzie LLP (Palo Alto, CA/San Francisco, CA) 2
2 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Palo Alto, CA) 3
3 DLA Piper US LLP (Palo Alto, CA) 10
4 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York/PA) 12
5 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (Palo Alto, CA) 14
6 Shearman & Sterling LLP (Bay Area, CA) 15
7 Paul Weiss NY 10
8 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NY 14
9 Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP (New York, NY) 15
10 Latham & Watkins LLP (Silicon Valley, CA, aka Menlo Park) 17
11 O'Melveny & Myers LLP (Silicon Valley, CA) 19
12 Morrison & Foerster LLP (San Francisco, CA) 21
13 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (San Francisco, CA) 23
14 paul hastings llp (San Francisco, CA) 23
15 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (San Francisco, CA) 24
16 Fenwick & West LLP (Mountain View, CA) 25
17 Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp (New York, CA) 27
18 Cravath Swaine & Moore 23
19 Winston & Strawn LLP (San Francisco, CA) 27
20 cooley llp (Palo Alto, CA) 30
21 Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP New York 29
22 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP (San Francisco, CA) 30
23 Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP (Menlo Park, CA) *
24 Dechert LLP (San Francisco, CA) *
25 Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian LLP (Redwood City, CA) *
26 Morrison & Foerster, LLP (Palo Alto, CA) *
27 Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp (Palo Alto, CA) *
28 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (Palo Alto, CA) *
29 Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP (Redwood Shores, CA) *

[Anonymous User]

What's the best way to determine the differences in firm culture among the firms? Does anyone have any idea of a spectrum of where the firms fall from most social to focused strictly on work and not being social within the firm?

[pinkiepie]

What's the best way to determine the differences in firm culture among the firms? Does anyone have any idea of a spectrum of where the firms fall from most social to focused strictly on work and not being social within the firm?

Read up on them. The EIP website lists a few resources, and there are others. The ones most useful to me were the articles section of TLS, which has some great (if a bit old) profiles on many firms, and Chambers-Associates, which has really good profiles consisting largely of quotes from associates they interviewed.

You can also search these forums with specific firm names; they've often been discussed before. (I found this particularly helpful for understanding how culture differs across different offices at some firms.)

[Anonymous User]

Any idea how grade selective Akin (D.C. office) is?

[Anonymous User]

What's the best way to determine the differences in firm culture among the firms? Does anyone have any idea of a spectrum of where the firms fall from most social to focused strictly on work and not being social within the firm?

Read up on them. The EIP website lists a few resources, and there are others. The ones most useful to me were the articles section of TLS, which has some great (if a bit old) profiles on many firms, and Chambers-Associates, which has really good profiles consisting largely of quotes from associates they interviewed.

You can also search these forums with specific firm names; they've often been discussed before. (I found this particularly helpful for understanding how culture differs across different offices at some firms.)

You should also pay close attention to the differences between offices of firms. A lot of times the city is a better indicator of overall culture with the firms varying to some degree off those general standards. My firm, for example, is known in NY for being a fratty, work hard/play hard, late nights out spot. In my market, it's a very casual, early in early out early place where people leave for their kid's little league games.

[itbdvorm]

is the median 3.33 or a little lower?

3.29/3.3 GPA, am i median, or do i need to be bidding like I'm below median and avoiding high % honors offers?

I would imagine that it wouldn't matter much if you're "median" or not if you aren't Stone. Since we don't have our GPAs on our resumes, the thing that stands out is honors, and if that's not on your resume/transcript (and it's not on yours), then you're already placed in a different category. Of course, it's better just even from a glance when someone has the grades for a 3.3 than if someone has the grades for a 3.0, but no one outside of Columbia's office knows what "median" truly is, and interviewers certainly aren't going to whip out a calculator to try to compute your GPA. Bid like you're below median and focus on the firms that have big class sizes and low honors %. If you've got other good factors (work experience, great interviewer) you can throw in some reach firms, but make sure you get the ones that fit the criteria I mentioned. Those should be your focus.

Just for the record, we (and most firms of our ilk) have someone on the recruiting staff who calculates GPAs (with a calculator and everything) for us.

[Anonymous User]

They should really separate Kent and Stone out for purposes of the honors report

[Anonymous User]

They should really separate Kent and Stone out for purposes of the honors report

Median GPA would be even more helpful

[Anonymous User]

About mass mailing: working abroad and won't be back in NYC until a few days before the EIP. Do I still mass mail now and say I'd like to see them before or during EIP? Or wait until bid results are out and reach out only to the ones that I don't get?

In your very specific situation, waiting until lottery results come out is the move. Even if you email a firm now, you won't be able to see them until they're just about to come to EIP anyway, so I'm not sure if they'll bring you in that close.

Also, just to clarify, when you go to a firm pre-EIP, you are almost never (like >95% of the time) going in for a screener. Pre-EIP interviews are insta-callbacks (i.e. 4 interviews and a lunch).

I'm doing an SA in a secondary market but am bidding mostly NYC firms for EIP. Would you also recommend that I not bother mass mailing? Even if the firm wanted to bring me in for an interview pre-EIP, I can't imagine I would be able to fly up until after my SA is over (third week of July). As for firms in this market, I'm not sure how I could explain needing to be gone for that length of time

If you're in the US and can afford to take a flight to NY, I'd say still mass mail and try to interview pre-EIP. A lot of firms give SAs 1-2 personal days off they can take whenever. If yours does this, take advantage and fly to NY on some Wednesday night and have interviews scheduled for the rest of the week. 2 days can be up to 4 callbacks.

If your firm doesn't give SAs days off, I'd say try to get interviews/offers in the market you're in for now. Third week of July isn't at all too late to do some pre-EIP stuff, so set those NY ones up for that window

To the international person: My assumption was that you wouldn't be back stateside until the first week in August literally right before EIP starts. If you'll be back earlier, for sure try to get interviews. If nothing else, emailing firms about general interest can yield auto-callbacks that take place when all the screener callbacks happen. You don't get the benefit of a pre-EIP offer, but that's one less screener you have to do and you get a callback out of it.

Your assumption is right - I will be back the last day of July, 3 days before EIP. I'll wait until lottery results are out. Thanks for your input.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone help judge my bid list and also propose any suggestions to filling out the bottom half of it? All are NYC except W&C and Steptoe. Gpa = 3.73. Particularly interested in Kirkland, Debevoise, Cleary, & DPW.

Bid Firm FFB 2015
1 Kirkland & Ellis 1
2 Gibson Dunn 3
3 Debevoise 4
4 Weil 6
5 Clifford Chance/Milbank 6/8
6 Ropes & Gray/WilmerHale 9/9
7 Paul Weiss 11
8 Sullivan and Cromwell 12
9 Cleary 14
10 DPW 15
11 Latham & Watkins 17
12 Covington and Burling 18
13 Fried Frank 16
14 Freshfields 17
15 Williams & Connolly 20
16 Cravath 23
17 Jones Day 24
18 Simpson Thacher 27
19 Wachtell 24
20 Dechert 23
21 Steptoe & Johnson 25
22
23
24
25 Sheppard, Mullin 29
26
27
28
29
30 Sherman & Sterling *

[pinkiepie]

Can someone help judge my bid list and also propose any suggestions to filling out the bottom half of it? All are NYC except W&C and Steptoe. Gpa = 3.73. Particularly interested in Kirkland, Debevoise, Cleary, & DPW.

Bid Firm FFB 2015
1 Kirkland & Ellis 1
2 Gibson Dunn 3
3 Debevoise 4
4 Weil 6
5 Clifford Chance/Milbank 6/8
6 Ropes & Gray/WilmerHale 9/9
7 Paul Weiss 11
8 Sullivan and Cromwell 12
9 Cleary 14
10 DPW 15
11 Latham & Watkins 17
12 Covington and Burling 18
13 Fried Frank 16
14 Freshfields 17
15 Williams & Connolly 20
16 Cravath 23
17 Jones Day 24
18 Simpson Thacher 27
19 Wachtell 24
20 Dechert 23
21 Steptoe & Johnson 25
22
23
24
25 Sheppard, Mullin 29
26
27
28
29
30 Sherman & Sterling *

With a GPA that high and looking at NY, I wouldn't lose any sleep over the lower bids. You're going to get offers higher up, and nothing that would interest you would have that low a FFB.

That said, in what kind of law are you interested? I don't see much in common with some of those firms except that they're elite. Ropes & Gray and WilmerHale are very different firms; what attracts you about each of them?