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bk1

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by bk1 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:57 pm
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:I don't really get how you're seeing "low LSAT + TTT + top grades = meaningless" out of anything that has been said in this thread. That seems like an argument you want to have, but that no one else is interested in.
People with high LSAT scores and low ugpas can be confronted with the option "Go to a local TT and get a full ride, or go to a lower t14 for full sticker?" That can be a legitimately difficult decision to make depending upon your goals (Are you willing to risk the possibility of no real legal career for the certainty of no debt? Are you willing to trade potentially life-crippling debt for a much greater chance at a real legal career?); but the calculation *might* be different if it turns out that someone with a high LSAT score is disproportionately likely to blow the curve at the local TT.
"meaningless" in the sense that this thread implies that data doesn't impact the hypothetical decision you're highlighting because the two correlations don't really need to be coupled in any way (LSAT-->grades and grades-->job are meaningful, but LSAT-->job isn't as useful).
For simplicity's sake, I think we can just leave it at agreeing this thread is dumb.
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AReasonableMan

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by AReasonableMan » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:16 pm
bk1 wrote:OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:I don't really get how you're seeing "low LSAT + TTT + top grades = meaningless" out of anything that has been said in this thread. That seems like an argument you want to have, but that no one else is interested in.
People with high LSAT scores and low ugpas can be confronted with the option "Go to a local TT and get a full ride, or go to a lower t14 for full sticker?" That can be a legitimately difficult decision to make depending upon your goals (Are you willing to risk the possibility of no real legal career for the certainty of no debt? Are you willing to trade potentially life-crippling debt for a much greater chance at a real legal career?); but the calculation *might* be different if it turns out that someone with a high LSAT score is disproportionately likely to blow the curve at the local TT.
"meaningless" in the sense that this thread implies that data doesn't impact the hypothetical decision you're highlighting because the two correlations don't really need to be coupled in any way (LSAT-->grades and grades-->job are meaningful, but LSAT-->job isn't as useful).
For simplicity's sake, I think we can just leave it at agreeing this thread is dumb.
Right, but we're only seeing that top grades at a TTT are a necessary condition to finding gainful employment. We're not accounting for the possibility that there are many, many people with top grades from a TTT struggling to find similar employment.
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:46 am
Fed Honors Program
LSAT 156/157
Top 100 school - GPAs are useless since schools have different curves, but I'll admit I was on academic probation for over a year
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Fed Honors Program
LSAT 156/157
Top 100 school - GPAs are useless since schools have different curves, but I'll admit I was on academic probation for over a year
how did you manage fed honors?
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:54 pm
AReasonableMan wrote:bk1 wrote:OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:I don't really get how you're seeing "low LSAT + TTT + top grades = meaningless" out of anything that has been said in this thread. That seems like an argument you want to have, but that no one else is interested in.
People with high LSAT scores and low ugpas can be confronted with the option "Go to a local TT and get a full ride, or go to a lower t14 for full sticker?" That can be a legitimately difficult decision to make depending upon your goals (Are you willing to risk the possibility of no real legal career for the certainty of no debt? Are you willing to trade potentially life-crippling debt for a much greater chance at a real legal career?); but the calculation *might* be different if it turns out that someone with a high LSAT score is disproportionately likely to blow the curve at the local TT.
"meaningless" in the sense that this thread implies that data doesn't impact the hypothetical decision you're highlighting because the two correlations don't really need to be coupled in any way (LSAT-->grades and grades-->job are meaningful, but LSAT-->job isn't as useful).
For simplicity's sake, I think we can just leave it at agreeing this thread is dumb.
Right, but we're only seeing that top grades at a TTT are a necessary condition to finding gainful employment. We're not accounting for the possibility that there are many, many people with top grades from a TTT struggling to find similar employment.
Can back this up. At a T50-60 school. Two people in my year have biglaw. Both in top 5%, people like #1 don't even have it after getting rejected at a bunch of places. Super easy to strike out at the t2 schools and below, regardless of rank. Its a special snowflake who can even manage biglaw out of there.
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Desert Fox

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by Desert Fox » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:56 pm
176
MODELS AND BOTTLES
Last edited by
Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Fed Honors Program
LSAT 156/157
Top 100 school - GPAs are useless since schools have different curves, but I'll admit I was on academic probation for over a year
How did you pull that off? Connections? Also don't honors programs have like a 3.0 GPA minimum? Either way, congrats! That's an incredible outcome.
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Fed Honors Program
LSAT 156/157
Top 100 school - GPAs are useless since schools have different curves, but I'll admit I was on academic probation for over a year
how did you manage fed honors?
Basically by being a specialist in my agency's field--it's one of the small, niche agencies.
-Years of specialty experience in management position
-Internships during law school and college working exclusively in that specialty, including boutique firms, in-house, and a related gov't org. Interned for the agency in undergrad and kept networking with agency employees through law school
-Specialized coursework (chose my law school specifically because they had a lot of relevant electives) including related undergrad degree
-Student leadership positions in related ABA Section and law school orgs
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:23 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Fed Honors Program
LSAT 156/157
Top 100 school - GPAs are useless since schools have different curves, but I'll admit I was on academic probation for over a year
How did you pull that off? Connections? Also don't honors programs have like a 3.0 GPA minimum? Either way, congrats! That's an incredible outcome.
See above. Some of the agencies don't have a GPA requirement, at least when I applied.
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:41 pm
V50
158/2.9 ug gpa lol
TT top5% (sup bitches?)---->lower t14
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:19 pm
V50
178/3.4 UG GPA
3.0 law school GPA (bottom of the barrel)
T6 school
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:56 pm
Accepted V10 offer (had V5 offers)
170
T14 (no GPA/guessing I'm around top 25%)
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84651846190

- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm
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by 84651846190 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:V50
158/2.9 ug gpa lol
TT top5% (sup bitches?)---->lower t14
(future biglaw partner)
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fats provolone

- Posts: 7125
- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm
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by fats provolone » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:35 am
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:V50
158/2.9 ug gpa lol
TT top5% (sup bitches?)---->lower t14
(future biglaw partner)
sad but true
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AReasonableMan

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by AReasonableMan » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:33 am
Anonymous User wrote:AReasonableMan wrote:bk1 wrote:OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:I don't really get how you're seeing "low LSAT + TTT + top grades = meaningless" out of anything that has been said in this thread. That seems like an argument you want to have, but that no one else is interested in.
People with high LSAT scores and low ugpas can be confronted with the option "Go to a local TT and get a full ride, or go to a lower t14 for full sticker?" That can be a legitimately difficult decision to make depending upon your goals (Are you willing to risk the possibility of no real legal career for the certainty of no debt? Are you willing to trade potentially life-crippling debt for a much greater chance at a real legal career?); but the calculation *might* be different if it turns out that someone with a high LSAT score is disproportionately likely to blow the curve at the local TT.
"meaningless" in the sense that this thread implies that data doesn't impact the hypothetical decision you're highlighting because the two correlations don't really need to be coupled in any way (LSAT-->grades and grades-->job are meaningful, but LSAT-->job isn't as useful).
For simplicity's sake, I think we can just leave it at agreeing this thread is dumb.
Right, but we're only seeing that top grades at a TTT are a necessary condition to finding gainful employment. We're not accounting for the possibility that there are many, many people with top grades from a TTT struggling to find similar employment.
Can back this up. At a T50-60 school. Two people in my year have biglaw. Both in top 5%, people like #1 don't even have it after getting rejected at a bunch of places. Super easy to strike out at the t2 schools and below, regardless of rank. Its a special snowflake who can even manage biglaw out of there.
My impression is the ones who get it are the complete package other than school. It's not very helpful but there is a feeling you get when you meet certain people. You don't have to evoke this feeling if you go to a good school.
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Anonymous User
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by Anonymous User » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:09 pm
MidLaw, I think, although the firm considers itself BigLaw (<$100K, >100 attorneys)
154 LSAT
TTTT, Top 15%
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twenty 8

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by twenty 8 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:05 pm
Large market midlaw boutique (with statewide satellite offices). Pays market.
173
School was Tier 3 (now tier 2). They did not provide class ranking.
Turned down T-14 prices. Leverage LSAT/GPA for free ride in my home town. Given SA income, actually made +$ during my 3 years.
IMO: As I’ve noted before, firms want smart people (which is what LSAT/GPA indicates), thus firms deem that avoiding high debt is a positive. Worked for me and many others I know IRL. I also work with smart T14ers but who are constantly grumbling about their debt.
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AReasonableMan

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by AReasonableMan » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:10 pm
This thread really only identifies the problem with schools that honestly report their stats. The people whop participate are those who are proud of their outcome, or at least ambivalent about it. If your outcome depresses you, you try to think about it as little as possible. It's like asking someone who looked like Kurt Cobain in high school but is now completely bald what happened. They will turn red, and not want to be your friend.
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Old Gregg

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by Old Gregg » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:31 pm
LSAT: 180
GPA: 4.33
Law School: non-Harvard non-Stanford HYS
Firm: Hughes Hubbard
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A. Nony Mouse

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by A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:10 pm
twenty 8 wrote:Large market midlaw boutique (with statewide satellite offices). Pays market.
173
School was Tier 3 (now tier 2). They did not provide class ranking.
Turned down T-14 prices. Leverage LSAT/GPA for free ride in my home town. Given SA income, actually made +$ during my 3 years.
IMO: As I’ve noted before, firms want smart people (which is what LSAT/GPA indicates), thus firms deem that avoiding high debt is a positive. Worked for me and many others I know IRL. I also work with smart T14ers but who are constantly grumbling about their debt.
So, although your firm deems avoiding high debt to be smart, they still hired plenty of people from the T14 who took on high debt?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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