DF Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Chicago all in? I have seen people with OK personality bidding on Chicago with 3.7+ strike out.

[sideroxylon]

PhD
Top 14
3.5 GPA
All Chicago firms
20 rejections from screeners
1 Callback from a Litigation Boutique - Rejected
2 Callbacks from V50 firms - Waiting to hear back (2 weeks and 3 weeks)

The dread is starting to kick in. I will go anywhere and do anything (litigation or corporate) for a 10 week summer at a big firm.

Please help.

is your PhD is something that would make people think you want PI?

[oblig.lawl.ref]

what's the point of getting bitchy about jobs? if you don't have one, too bad. no amount of whining about luck is going to fix that.

the trouble with letting fools believe they struck out because of bad luck is that they don't do much to improve themselves afterwards. your personality sucks; either DF or someone else can tell you that. this above median/below median stuff means nothing compared to whether or not you come off as "precious" or some other atrocious piece of crap. for those of you who struck out from a t10, either you suck at bidding or you need an attitude adjustment.

anecdotally, my friend at T6 tells me of the 10 people who struck out at her OCI last year, 5 were anywhere from top 20% to law review. three guys bid DC or smaller markets only, and the rest were entitled fucks. apparently one of these people went 0/6or7 callbacks in NY.

The people I knew who had the most success at OCI were very often the most arrogant, entitled assholes in school. That shit can fly in 20 min interviews. People that struggle at OCI don't necessarily have shitty personalities. They might. Or they might actually have personalities that don't jive with the dozens of type-a assholes that populate big law firms.

So your point's not totally off in the sense that there is often more than luck at play but I don't think it plays out the way you say it does. That being said, there is still some luck, I think, based on the people you get matched up with. I've done interviews when I walk in the door and the interviewer is taking a personal call or clearly not interested before it even starts. That is luck.

Have you even done OCI? Why are you anecdotally referring to a friend's experience? And FYI, I'm pretty sure more than 10 ppl struck out at each of CCN.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

If on the "Difficulty cracking the market, assuming requisite ties" scale, NYC is a 1 and DC is a 10, where would we put Chicago? Six or seven?

[patogordo]

did some posts just disappear?

[Anonymous User]

PhD
Top 14
3.5 GPA
All Chicago firms
20 rejections from screeners
1 Callback from a Litigation Boutique - Rejected
2 Callbacks from V50 firms - Waiting to hear back (2 weeks and 3 weeks)

The dread is starting to kick in. I will go anywhere and do anything (litigation or corporate) for a 10 week summer at a big firm.

Please help.

is your PhD is something that would make people think you want PI?

OP here, not at all; it's something tangentially related to law. I'm a very personable guy (perhaps overly so; I can be perceived as the kind of the "too nice", overly grateful type) and have had compliments on my personality by interviewers. I'm worried that my PhD works against me (either seeming too much like a law professor flight risk or them expecting a better GPA from me because of the PhD).

[Desert Fox]

If on the "Difficulty cracking the market, assuming requisite ties" scale, NYC is a 1 and DC is a 10, where would we put Chicago? Six or seven?

8. not as grade whorish as dc but still very difficult. The only reason it's less difficult is because if you are top ten percent at northwestern or Michigan, you'll get scooped up by someone unless you are a horrific interviewer. That didn't happen in dc.

[sideroxylon]

PhD
Top 14
3.5 GPA
All Chicago firms
20 rejections from screeners
1 Callback from a Litigation Boutique - Rejected
2 Callbacks from V50 firms - Waiting to hear back (2 weeks and 3 weeks)

The dread is starting to kick in. I will go anywhere and do anything (litigation or corporate) for a 10 week summer at a big firm.

Please help.

is your PhD is something that would make people think you want PI?

OP here, not at all; it's something tangentially related to law. I'm a very personable guy (perhaps overly so; I can be perceived as the kind of the "too nice", overly grateful type) and have had compliments on my personality by interviewers. I'm worried that my PhD works against me (either seeming too much like a law professor flight risk or them expecting a better GPA from me because of the PhD).

what is the PhD in?

[Desert Fox]

.

[THM23]

I know this is not the right thread, but I need some help/advice, and I have only a couple days to decide what to do.

* T-14 K-JD
* Bombed first semester; performed much better second semester
* Bottom quarter most likely;
* 20 OCI screeners; 0 CBs (realized this was a pointless exercise, but wanted to give it a shot)


I then followed up on mass mailers I sent to firms in my hometown. I got a few interviews, and got an offer from an NLJ 250 (over 250 attorneys) firm that pays over 90k, but with very high billable hour requirements. The problem is that the firm is primarily an ID firm, but considers itself a full service firm. The firm has also hired very large classes of SAs over the past several years, and is growing quickly. I have heard so many awful things about ID, but I know I cannot be picky at the least, right?

I have received invitations to interview at other mid-size firms in my hometown, but I would have to miss even more school, and I dunno if its worth it.

Questions

Given my terrible grades and the state of the legal market, should I accept the offer asap? Or should I ask for more time?

Can I do anything my 2L year to "trade up" to a national firm with an office located in my hometown?

[sublime]

..

[THM23]

I don't think this thread is for you.

Sorry, I realize it wasnt the right thread per se, but I have to make a decision in the next 2 days, and I saw that some of the input on this thread was helpful.

[TheThriller]

I don't think this thread is for you.

Sorry, I realize it wasnt the right thread per se, but I have to make a decision in the next 2 days, and I saw that some of the input on this thread was helpful.

So you didn't strike out.

[Mal Reynolds]

I don't think this thread is for you.

Sorry, I realize it wasnt the right thread per se, but I have to make a decision in the next 2 days, and I saw that some of the input on this thread was helpful.

I would definitely turn down your only offer for employment.

[Desert Fox]

Why is it always the worst students who don't want to miss class.

[sideroxylon]

I don't think this thread is for you.

Sorry, I realize it wasnt the right thread per se, but I have to make a decision in the next 2 days, and I saw that some of the input on this thread was helpful.

So you didn't strike out.

Is this the right thread for you TheThriller? I wouldn't want you to have to send some embarrassing messages in confusion or something.

[Anonymous User]

School: MVPD

Rank: Top 10-15%

Bid: All NYC

CB: 9 from 20 screeners. Didn't change anything. Either many firms overlook poor interviewing at screeenrs if grades are there, or my personality was love/hate. Never questioned social skills before this.

Got damn what were you tellng people during interviews.

The only substantive difference from screeners was being asked what classes I'm taking. I tried to retake professors I did well with, but didn't want to admit it so spoke about intellectual curiosity. It might be odd to express an interest in M&A, but taking genetics and law instead. I have an atypical background (journalism), and have a condition that makes it impossible for me to walk most days. I guess either one could be off putting. I'm probably looking for the easy way out, and the problem is my personality. If conventional wisdom is in my situation you need to say ridiculous things to strikeout then I probably said ridiculous things, and am too weird to have realized they were ridiculous. My confusion is I said almost all the same things at the interviews, and I never failed because of my social skills before.

[Desert Fox]

School: MVPD

Rank: Top 10-15%

Bid: All NYC

CB: 9 from 20 screeners. Didn't change anything. Either many firms overlook poor interviewing at screeenrs if grades are there, or my personality was love/hate. Never questioned social skills before this.

Got damn what were you tellng people during interviews.

The only substantive difference from screeners was being asked what classes I'm taking. I tried to retake professors I did well with, but didn't want to admit it so spoke about intellectual curiosity. It might be odd to express an interest in M&A, but taking genetics and law instead. I have an atypical background (journalism), and have a condition that makes it impossible for me to walk most days. I guess either one could be off putting. I'm probably looking for the easy way out, and the problem is my personality. I was never that awkward person in a corner before. I guess I didn't think I was insufferable? Maybe the right personality isn't good social skills alone, but something more specific? Maybe I suck at life. It seemed like making good conversation at the screeners was enough, but that something about me failed the fit test. I don't think it was anything I said, because then I wouldn't have gotten so many callbacks? Or is it stricter at stage two?

With good grades it is definitely more strict at level 2.

I would just tell people you liked the prof.

[Cicero76]

5 callbacks in my home (tertiary market), and am now 0-4, about to be 0-5. It's where I actually wanted to work, and I made that extremely clear. Am I a terrible interviewer or what.

[DoveBodyWash]

5 callbacks in my home (tertiary market), and am now 0-4, about to be 0-5. It's where I actually wanted to work, and I made that extremely clear. Am I a terrible interviewer or what.

so much YP

[Mal Reynolds]

Yale protect?

[sublime]

..

[Desert Fox]

5 callbacks in my home (tertiary market), and am now 0-4, about to be 0-5. It's where I actually wanted to work, and I made that extremely clear. Am I a terrible interviewer or what.

How'd you do outside that market

[jbagelboy]

I know this is not the right thread, but I need some help/advice, and I have only a couple days to decide what to do.

* T-14 K-JD
* Bombed first semester; performed much better second semester
* Bottom quarter most likely;
* 20 OCI screeners; 0 CBs (realized this was a pointless exercise, but wanted to give it a shot)


I then followed up on mass mailers I sent to firms in my hometown. I got a few interviews, and got an offer from an NLJ 250 (over 250 attorneys) firm that pays over 90k, but with very high billable hour requirements. The problem is that the firm is primarily an ID firm, but considers itself a full service firm. The firm has also hired very large classes of SAs over the past several years, and is growing quickly. I have heard so many awful things about ID, but I know I cannot be picky at the least, right?

I have received invitations to interview at other mid-size firms in my hometown, but I would have to miss even more school, and I dunno if its worth it.

Questions

Given my terrible grades and the state of the legal market, should I accept the offer asap? Or should I ask for more time?

Can I do anything my 2L year to "trade up" to a national firm with an office located in my hometown?

Honestly, bottom quarter at some T14 k-jd you are lucky to have any offer with potential for long term employment - there's no mystery here.

best thing you can do 2L is get your grades up to above median, network the shit out of any major market firms you have any kind of contact with - maybe an OCI screener interviewer who liked you, ect. - to keep those contacts for next summer 3L OCI, do moot court or RA/journal publication or something, and get an offer from your 2L firm.

[jbagelboy]

5 callbacks in my home (tertiary market), and am now 0-4, about to be 0-5. It's where I actually wanted to work, and I made that extremely clear. Am I a terrible interviewer or what.

How'd you do outside that market

I'm pretty sure all P's at YLS can still get a NY V20 offer at FIP if you bid the non-selective, larger class size ones and didn't barf during the interview