2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[daleearnhardt123]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. Hogan Lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC
9. Davis Polk NYC
10. Fried Frank NYC
11. Gibson Dunn DC
12. Proskauer Rose NYC
13. White & Case NYC
14. Latham & Watkins NYC
15. WilmerHale DC
16. Baker Botts DC
17. Ropes & Gray NYC
18. K&L Gates DC
19. Dechert DC
20. Simpson Thacher NYC
21. Jones Day DC
22. Shearman & Sterling NYC
23. Weil Gotshall & Manges NYC
24. Debevoise & Plimpton NYC
25. Crowell & Moring DC
26. Wilkie Farr & Gallagher NYC
27. Sidley Austin NYC
28. Cahill Gordon NYC
29. Cleary Gottlieb NYC
30. Nelson Mullins DC
31. King & Spalding DC
32. Cadwalader NYC
33. Wiley Rein DC
34. Sutherland DC
35. Milbank NYC
36. Paul Weiss NYC
37. Clifford Chance NYC
38. Steptoe & Johnson DC
39. Pillsbury DC
40. Goodwin Procter DC
41. Winston & Strawn DC
42. Paul Hastings NYC
43. Bingham McCutchen DC
44. Holland & Knight DC
45. Wilson Sonsini DC
46. Allen & Overy NYC
47. Baker Hostetler DC
48. Hollingsworth DC
49. Sheppard Mullin DC
50. Cooley DC

Remove for sure: Arnold & Porter, WilmerHale DC
Hail Marys: Hogan DC, Jones Day DC, Wiley Rein DC, Gibson DC (tempted to put this in "remove for sure")
Long shots: Steptoe DC, DPW NY, Simpson NY, PW NY, Kirkland NY, Ropes NY

There are also a number of small offices on this list that I don't feel like are the wisest use of a bid, but I wasn't going to categorize them in the above buckets because I don't think they're unlikely as a matter of your grades, I think they're unlikely as a matter of sheer numbers (lots of applicants, few positions).

Also, understand that "strong ties to DC" isn't worth much--if anything--if you don't have the grades. This is NOT true for many secondary markets, but DC isn't "many secondary markets."

[5ky]

I don't think Kirkland NY and Ropes NY are long-shots, really. Absolutely should keep them on. Both have mid-large class sizes

[Br3v]

How far down the list would you say we aren't going to swing a firm in the lottery that tends to get your standard 100 bids for 20 slots? I'm assuming bids 25-50 are pretty much for pre-select hopes and less bid on firms?

[Anonymous User]

Would swapping out WilmerHale and GDC DC offices for the NYC offices be worthwhile?

Thanks for the responses.

[daleearnhardt123]

Would swapping out WilmerHale and GDC DC offices for the NYC offices be worthwhile?

Thanks for the responses.

With a 3.49 I think those offices would be in play. Note though that if you intend to keep the other "Hail Mary" DC offices on your list they are basically throwaways . When I put AP and Wilmer DC in the "remove immediately" list it's because I think a white male KJD literally will NEVER get there w a 3.49. The Hail Mary category might be open to you if you wake up on the morning of interviews and have suddenly morphed into the most fascinating law student in the country, but they are really throwaway bids otherwise. Knowing many of the current rising 3Ls at those firms, I can say that a 3.49 is a major departure from where those students currently sit.

[Anonymous User]

From the Law Students thread, it seems law review phone calls started today. Anybody get the good news?

Anon so I'm not outed, but yeah, I got the call. It woke me up from my nap. Grades are pretty high, and my write-on was shit, so I'm assuming I graded on.

Congrats!

I know of at least one person who received an invitation to join VLR. Theoretically, it could be the person above, but I don't know.

Generally, the full list is released fairly soon. They'll want to ensure that everyone offered a spot accepts (people may transfer, may be dual degree, may not want to put up with VLR nonsense, et cetera). If someone declines a spot for whatever reason, they go down the list until the enumerated spots are filled. Last year, the list was released about a week after offers, as someone held out for a while.

Safe to assume the calls are done?

[Anonymous User]

Would swapping out WilmerHale and GDC DC offices for the NYC offices be worthwhile?

Thanks for the responses.

WilmerHale NYC is really idiosyncratic in their hiring. They have a very small summer class by NYC standards. I know two people with really great stats that got callbacks but not offers from WilmerHale NYC. This doesn't mean you shouldn't do it - you might fit whatever they're looking for but just be aware and that the odds aren't great.

[Anonymous User]

non-urm male with a 3.51
Primary goal is to work in DC, I would rather work at a "lower ranked" firm in DC than elsewhere.

[will post updated bid list later in thread.]

Future readers: Main feedback was to bid more conservative on the NY firms and re-arrange some of the DC bids towards the top

[daleearnhardt123]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

[Anonymous User]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Anon above.

First, thank you. But second, Jones Day/ Hogan /Gibson have some of the biggest class sized in DC. By a lot, the next steps down are relatively drastic like in the 4-15 range. So are you saying it's a waste of time because so many people bid it and it's a crap shoot?

[Anonymous User]

To the 3.51 male non-URM:

I would seriously reconsider giving Crowell & Moring DC your top spot. It's hard not to have blinders on at this stage when you're trying to land a summer associate position first and foremost, but C&M (not just their DC office) treated some graduating 3Ls very badly. Donovan may have more information on the firm if you ask and he may not tell you to take them off your list entirely, so get a second opinion.

[daleearnhardt123]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Anon above.

First, thank you. But second, Jones Day/ Hogan /Gibson have some of the biggest class sized in DC. By a lot, the next steps down are relatively drastic like in the 4-15 range. So are you saying it's a waste of time because so many people bid it and it's a crap shoot?

1. No prob, much more fun than working on July 4 eve
2. DC is an extremely desirable market. This is doubly true for Harvard and Yale students. UVA places well in DC but those firms are in crazy high demand by prospective rising 2Ls. Even if you hit a Home run at those places in your screener it'd be shocking to hear a 3.51 got an offer. Hitting a home run in a screener with the smaller offices of DC, where hordes of yalies and harvards aren't aiming to do the same, is probably a more sensible play. To be totally clear here, I don't think a 3.51 non URM male at UVA can get jones day hogan or Gibson in DC. Period.

Also, remember, DC is a beast of a hard market. Don't underestimate how good it feels to have NY offers to fall back on

[Anonymous User]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Anon above.

First, thank you. But second, Jones Day/ Hogan /Gibson have some of the biggest class sized in DC. By a lot, the next steps down are relatively drastic like in the 4-15 range. So are you saying it's a waste of time because so many people bid it and it's a crap shoot?

1. No prob, much more fun than working on July 4 eve
2. DC is an extremely desirable market. This is doubly true for Harvard and Yale students. UVA places well in DC but those firms are in crazy high demand by prospective rising 2Ls. Even if you hit a Home run at those places in your screener it'd be shocking to hear a 3.51 got an offer. Hitting a home run in a screener with the smaller offices of DC, where hordes of yalies and harvards aren't aiming to do the same, is probably a more sensible play. To be totally clear here, I don't think a 3.51 non URM male at UVA can get jones day hogan or Gibson in DC. Period.

Also, remember, DC is a beast of a hard market. Don't underestimate how good it feels to have NY offers to fall back on

Recent experience with this - Hogan DC should def stay on your list at 3.51. If you dont come off as a huge weirdo you'll get offers at DC firms with that GPA. Almost all firms are in play for you. Don't know what Dale is smoking (although I agree C&B + Wilmer are reaches)

[Anonymous User]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Cov DC is a waste unless you have some very special type of work experience/background.

Wilmer is a very big reach.

I disagree with the above poster, I think you're on target for Hogan, Gibson and Jones Day.

[daleearnhardt123]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Cov DC is a waste unless you have some very special type of work experience/background.

Wilmer is a very big reach.

I disagree with the above poster, I think you're on target for Hogan, Gibson and Jones Day.

Is it possible that hogan jones day and Gibson screen you? Sure. Doesn't mean they aren't basically throwaways. Knowing the people who have gone to these firms the last two years I can say that 3.51 makes it an uphill battle. 3.51 as a vanilla white male makes it, to quote another poster, down by 4 touchdowns at halftime. Maybe you're vintage Tom Brady. But really, you're probably not.

[daleearnhardt123]

If you want more encouraging news about a big DC firm, include Latham. Much more reasonable.

[Anonymous User]

3.51 male non-URM who doesn't wanna be quoted:

Complete waste of bid: Wilmer DC, Cov DC
basically a waste of bid unless you're the most incredible law student of all time: jones day DC, hogan DC, Gibson DC
unlikely but I wouldn't delete: DPW NY, sullcrom NY, STB NY, PW DC
uh, are you sure?: Patton Boggs.

Cov DC is a waste unless you have some very special type of work experience/background.

Wilmer is a very big reach.

I disagree with the above poster, I think you're on target for Hogan, Gibson and Jones Day.

Is it possible that hogan jones day and Gibson screen you? Sure. Doesn't mean they aren't basically throwaways. Knowing the people who have gone to these firms the last two years I can say that 3.51 makes it an uphill battle. 3.51 as a vanilla white male makes it, to quote another poster, down by 4 touchdowns at halftime. Maybe you're vintage Tom Brady. But really, you're probably not.

I disagree that 3.51 makes it an uphill battle at Hogan. This past OGI season was tougher for Hogan because in Summer 2013 Hogan had a larger than anticipated class size so they cut back on hiring for 2014 Summer. Assuming Hogan goes back to normal class size for 2015 summer, a 3.51 makes you competitive (but by no means a lock).

[Anonymous User]

If you want more encouraging news about a big DC firm, include Latham. Much more reasonable.

Donovan told me Latham DC is one of the biggest Law Review snobs there is

[sundance95]

Why do people care if your anonymously-posted bid list is quoted? Chill out

[daleearnhardt123]

If you want more encouraging news about a big DC firm, include Latham. Much more reasonable.

Donovan told me Latham DC is one of the biggest Law Review snobs there is

KD is usually fantastic, but the current UVA SA continent at Latham does NOT bear that out. Apply to Latham.

[Anonymous User]

If you want more encouraging news about a big DC firm, include Latham. Much more reasonable.

Donovan told me Latham DC is one of the biggest Law Review snobs there is

KD is usually fantastic, but the current UVA SA continent at Latham does NOT bear that out. Apply to Latham.

Worth a high bid at a low 3.6X? I imagine I'm still short of a pre select

[daleearnhardt123]

You could score a PS there. But if you want a big DC firm then sure, bid them high.

[5ky]

Latham DC is NOT law review level snobby from UVA.

Also, for the 3.51 bid list, I think you're being a bit too aggressive with your NYC backups, particularly for the top 10 (where you might get lottery selections).

If you really want to bid DPW, STB, Sullcrom, put them at the bottom.

[Anonymous User]

If you had a low 3.6x and wanted Big DC and could only put Hogan or Latham in your top 5, what one would you go with?

[daleearnhardt123]

If you had a low 3.6x and wanted Big DC and could only put Hogan or Latham in your top 5, what one would you go with?

Latham. What the earlier poster said about hogan having an unusually small 2014 SA class was true... But even still, Latham is the better play I think. With that said, are you female, URM, Good WE? If so, a low 3.6 should bid both.