Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

To all the V10 associates coping right now about their sub-market non-peer TTT compensation, you understand that it isn't just about whether the firm will "eventually" match, right? I.e., that there's something inherently classless and "fuck you" about working for a partnership that takes the attitude of "we'll adjust your compensation when we feel like it, what's the rush?" I know we've all been used and abused and so lack much remaining sense of self worth but this isn't a good look for V10 firms right now.

The gap in comp (in both relative and absolute terms) between junior associates and equity partners at v10s is larger than the gap between junior associates and minimum wage workers (especially in New York/CA/DC etc.). A first year associate makes like 3-5% of a typical v10 PPP (of course I understand there are wide comp spreads among equity partners but the point stands) The reality is that V10 equity partners don't even consider associates on the same plane of existence as them - when I was doing a callback at PW, the old boomer partner directly told me that making partnership was almost impossible at PW but I would get a lot of good experience which would make it worth it. The result of extreme increases in rates and profits going more and more to a small group of partners paired with a pulling up of the ladder is that current v10 partners (and biglaw partners generally) have come to review their subordinates with contempt, almost as serfs or temp workers rather than colleagues and future partners. Apologies for the long rant.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

[Anonymous User]

Fenwick match per biglawboiz

Can you share a link to support this claim? I've looked all over and was not able to verify this.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

[Anonymous User]

I'm at Winston and can't believe I'm making more than V10 attorneys. I'm sure firm leadership is wondering if they matched too quickly.

Winston was one of the only firms to not make it retroactive to Jan 1 so I'm sure they wished they held off for even longer to save a bit more.

Our fiscal year starts on 2/1, so they had a pretty good built-in excuse to make it effective as of then (rolling it into our annual raise).

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

[2013]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

I’ve seen many associates leave V10 to go to Cooley (and Fenwick). I haven’t seen many leave to go to Goodwin. As someone else mentioned before, Goodwin (outside of Boston) isn’t competing for the same talent as a V10.

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

OP here: sadly I'm not prestigious enough to work for Cooley or Goodwin; I work for one of Fenwick, WSGR and Gunderson.

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

It means that Cooley associates have more talent than Goodwin associates...

Only a Goodwin associate would have trouble understanding such a simple point.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at Winston and can't believe I'm making more than V10 attorneys. I'm sure firm leadership is wondering if they matched too quickly.

Winston was one of the only firms to not make it retroactive to Jan 1 so I'm sure they wished they held off for even longer to save a bit more.

Our fiscal year starts on 2/1, so they had a pretty good built-in excuse to make it effective as of then (rolling it into our annual raise).

Buried lede here is that Winston apparently starts class years a month late? So they are actually below market. For a midlevel this is a couple grand difference.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

That's just dumb. Prosecutors, for instance, are very valued and respected by local communities. Same with PI attorneys, though probably to a lesser extent. Biglaw associates? Not so much.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Do biglaw for a few years (assuming you can land a SA position) without loans and you’ll be very well situated for the rest of your life if you save even remotely well. Although maybe your family is already incredibly wealthy and you don’t care. Either way, congrats.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

That's just dumb. Prosecutors, for instance, are very valued and respected by local communities. Same with PI attorneys, though probably to a lesser extent. Biglaw associates? Not so much.

Nothing says valued and respected like a park bench ad

[2013]

I'm at Winston and can't believe I'm making more than V10 attorneys. I'm sure firm leadership is wondering if they matched too quickly.

Winston was one of the only firms to not make it retroactive to Jan 1 so I'm sure they wished they held off for even longer to save a bit more.

Our fiscal year starts on 2/1, so they had a pretty good built-in excuse to make it effective as of then (rolling it into our annual raise).

Buried lede here is that Winston apparently starts class years a month late? So they are actually below market. For a midlevel this is a couple grand difference.

In theory, maybe. But in reality, the Midlevel who leaves after bonus at a normal firm will leave in December/January, and the Winston associate will leave February/March making up for a majority of the difference.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

That's just dumb. Prosecutors, for instance, are very valued and respected by local communities. Same with PI attorneys, though probably to a lesser extent. Biglaw associates? Not so much.

Nothing says valued and respected like a park bench ad

...public interest, i mean (though the confusion is reasonable)

[Anonymous User]

People are being dumb here; DPW is clearly just trying to flex/slow the pace of salary growth: firms like Cooley matching makes all respectable firms matching inevitable. Tech firms like Goodwin and Cooley are eating the V10s lunch in terms of associate talent. I could easily see this going on for another month, but we're all going to get trued up. Could potentially suck for laterals if their firms don't match before they leave though.

I spotted a Goodwin associate.

Cooley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goodwin in terms of associate talent.

What does this even mean?

OP here: sadly I'm not prestigious enough to work for Cooley or Goodwin; I work for one of Fenwick, WSGR and Gunderson.

I'd take any of Fenwick/WSGR/Gund over Goodwin NY. Goodwin NY was the bottom of the barrel at my OCI with some of the most forgiving grade distributions.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

That's just dumb. Prosecutors, for instance, are very valued and respected by local communities. Same with PI attorneys, though probably to a lesser extent. Biglaw associates? Not so much.

I mean, this delay in raising salaries is a dumb reason to quit on biglaw, but if you're not motivated by the high salary, biglaw is probably the wrong career path for you anyway.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at Winston and can't believe I'm making more than V10 attorneys. I'm sure firm leadership is wondering if they matched too quickly.

Winston was one of the only firms to not make it retroactive to Jan 1 so I'm sure they wished they held off for even longer to save a bit more.

Our fiscal year starts on 2/1, so they had a pretty good built-in excuse to make it effective as of then (rolling it into our annual raise).

Buried lede here is that Winston apparently starts class years a month late? So they are actually below market. For a midlevel this is a couple grand difference.

In theory, maybe. But in reality, the Midlevel who leaves after bonus at a normal firm will leave in December/January, and the Winston associate will leave February/March making up for a majority of the difference.

But if they don't leave that's a career of making about 2k less per year. Below market.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

.... What? Because some firms pay 215 and others 205 (but will eventually get to 215) you're going to instead get a job paying 60?

I'm sure firms dgaf about law students but I'll absolutely try and use 3L oci to go to a matching firm over the V10 I'm going to if they don't match. So I have a hard time imagining actual associates wouldn't feel the same re: lateraling.

1L here. This whole mess is really making me look at non-biglaw options.

I sincerely hope this is a shitpost

I want to be valued in my job. This mess is just showing that firms really don't give a shit about their associates, so I should look elsewhere. I don't have loans, so I'm not really concerned re: finances.

Honey, nobody values you in any job. That's what the money is for.

That's just dumb. Prosecutors, for instance, are very valued and respected by local communities. Same with PI attorneys, though probably to a lesser extent. Biglaw associates? Not so much.

I mean, this delay in raising salaries is a dumb reason to quit on biglaw, but if you're not motivated by the high salary, biglaw is probably the wrong career path for you anyway.

Yeah exactly. We're none of us naive. As the famous saying goes, we're just haggling over the price.

Give me my money.

[Anonymous User]

This is ridiculous. I'm at a V10 and I'm demoralized by this.