ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012) Forum

[Veyron]

Regarding the hours, I should mention that for one, I'm not at a biglaw shop. Two, I routinely work 60+ hour weeks, I only mentioned that 50 had been the absolute floor all summer. Three, I think we both expected that I'd work long hours as a lawyer. I think the problem was working these hours as a summer. Basically, spouse is worried that if I'm working this much now, what's it going to be like as a lawyer?

I agree with the responses that spouse needs to adjust the expecations some. I probably shouldn't have mentioned that part of it.

S/he is right to worry because s/he is right that your hours will not improve and will only get worse. It's not directly relevant to your issue with the partner (at the firm), but it will be to your partner (in life) and to you if you want to have some measure of career stability. One of my fellow first-years just left the firm we work at because he could only see his small child for fifteen minutes a day (not including periodic videochats), and that just was not the life he wanted. If you and your spouse were miserable this summer it may be worth it to consider other options to the extent they are available.

That said, your original situation with the partner sucks but it does not sound like the stuff of no-offers. Although I guess you learned a lesson about putting stuff off for too long/not regularly checking in.

Biglaw is not and will never be only 50 hours a week. A "lifestyle" shop will have you averaging 60 or so and it goes up from there. One trick that I'm finding people use is to work 9-6, go home for dinner and a few hours with family, then go back to the office or work from home for a few more hours.

[Anonymous User]

After the summer is over, should we send an email to everyone we didn't physically say bye to? Of course I normally would, but I feel like there are too many people to do this to. Our office is huge.

[Old Gregg]

After the summer is over, should we send an email to everyone we didn't physically say bye to? Of course I normally would, but I feel like there are too many people to do this to. Our office is huge.

Absolutely not.

[sadsituationJD]

Biglaw is not and will never be only 50 hours a week. A "lifestyle" shop will have you averaging 60 or so and it goes up from there. One trick that I'm finding people use is to work 9-6, go home for dinner and a few hours with family, then go back to the office or work from home for a few more hours.

It'll be even funnier when Biglaw starts cutting salaries. I've heard there's a real push to drop back to 125 K from 160, just that no one wants to be the first.

Funny how plumbers and other blue-collar types who own their own businesses do much, much better per hour than even Biglaw lawyers. What on earth would make anyone want to forfeit the best years of their life to churning bale upon bale of the dullest shitpaper on Earth?

[Anonymous User]

Biglaw is not and will never be only 50 hours a week. A "lifestyle" shop will have you averaging 60 or so and it goes up from there. One trick that I'm finding people use is to work 9-6, go home for dinner and a few hours with family, then go back to the office or work from home for a few more hours.

It'll be even funnier when Biglaw starts cutting salaries. I've heard there's a real push to drop back to 125 K from 160, just that no one wants to be the first.

Funny how plumbers and other blue-collar types who own their own businesses do much, much better per hour than even Biglaw lawyers. What on earth would make anyone want to forfeit the best years of their life to churning bale upon bale of the dullest shitpaper on Earth?

Really? Rumors abound at my Vault firm about going above 160k.

[somewhatwayward]

^
it's sadsituationJD (ie, areyouinsane).....good for entertainment but he doesn't have the pulse on biglaw salaries

[Veyron]

Yah, I don't think people in NYC biglaw have to worry about coming down from 160 at all but the worst firms. Of course, many NLJ 250 offices outside of NYC never were at 160 to begin with.

[09042014]

If they didn't cut in 2009 they aren't going to cut now.

[keg411]

If they didn't cut in 2009 they aren't going to cut now.

And even the firms that went down to $145 in 09 bumped back up. Biglaw firms would rather cut class sizes. Or conduct layoffs.

[Old Gregg]

If they didn't cut in 2009 they aren't going to cut now.

And even the firms that went down to $145 in 09 bumped back up. Biglaw firms would rather cut class sizes. Or conduct layoffs.

Since you're so fond of nitpicking, I want to make sure you experience it first hand. There are some firms in NYC that went to 145k and have yet to return to 160k.

Generally, firm's that truly can't afford 160k salaries are screwing associates through bonuses. Many have adopted discretionary systems that allow for significantly below-market bonuses. Others are simply not paying market bonuses. And yet others are setting hours thresholds that almost no associate will achieve because they don't have enough work.

Just because ATL isn't reporting this, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[somewhatwayward]

Generally, firm's that truly can't afford 160k salaries are screwing associates through bonuses. Many have adopted discretionary systems that allow for significantly below-market bonuses. Others are simply not paying market bonuses. And yet others are setting hours thresholds that almost no associate will achieve because they don't have enough work.

Just because ATL isn't reporting this, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Which firms are in this category?

[keg411]

If they didn't cut in 2009 they aren't going to cut now.

And even the firms that went down to $145 in 09 bumped back up. Biglaw firms would rather cut class sizes. Or conduct layoffs.

Since you're so fond of nitpicking, I want to make sure you experience it first hand. There are some firms in NYC that went to 145k and have yet to return to 160k.

Generally, firm's that truly can't afford 160k salaries are screwing associates through bonuses. Many have adopted discretionary systems that allow for significantly below-market bonuses. Others are simply not paying market bonuses. And yet others are setting hours thresholds that almost no associate will achieve because they don't have enough work.

Just because ATL isn't reporting this, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I actually don't mind that you said that because I was unaware of it. I knew of a couple of firms that went down to $145k and went back up and I thought that was it. So, seriously, thanks for adding in the information.

Also, I definitely believe the bonus/hours stuff is happening. Some of it is completely obvious with even lock-step bonuses being significantly lower across the board than they used to be.

[shoeshine]

.

[Anonymous User]

How long is the average wait time for 2Ls to get offers?

My office gave me an offer to come back during the last week (I am a 1L). But I heard they are waiting 2-3 weeks before giving any of the 2Ls offers.

That seems like a long time. Is that normal or is my firm an outlier?

My firm said they may consider 2Ls before 1L returning offers because 2Ls need more time to work out backup plans if they get no offered. They have not made offers to 2Ls, so 1Ls may take longer.

[shoeshine]

How long is the average wait time for 2Ls to get offers?

My office gave me an offer to come back during the last week (I am a 1L). But I heard they are waiting 2-3 weeks before giving any of the 2Ls offers.

That seems like a long time. Is that normal or is my firm an outlier?

My firm said they may consider 2Ls before 1L returning offers because 2Ls need more time to work out backup plans if they get no offered. They have not made offers to 2Ls, so 1Ls may take longer.

This makes sense. Unfortunately my firm did the opposite but that may have just been at my office.

I just feel like waiting 3 weeks to find out if you have a job after working 10+ weeks at a firm is kind of ridiculous.

[rad lulz]

How long is the average wait time for 2Ls to get offers?

My office gave me an offer to come back during the last week (I am a 1L). But I heard they are waiting 2-3 weeks before giving any of the 2Ls offers.

That seems like a long time. Is that normal or is my firm an outlier?

Wait I didn't know you had a 1L SA.

Nice humblebrag.

[shoeshine]

.

[rad lulz]

I am really wondering if this is a sign that my firm is in some sort of financial trouble. From reading on here it seems like a ton of firms either do it right at the end of the program or within a week.

Not abnormal. I have no idea why it would indicate financial trouble.

[shoeshine]

I am really wondering if this is a sign that my firm is in some sort of financial trouble. From reading on here it seems like a ton of firms either do it right at the end of the program or within a week.

Not abnormal. I have no idea why it would indicate financial trouble.

Yeah I guess not. I should add though that they offered 100% of the 2Ls last year and did it on the last day. That is what everyone was expecting but now there is a possible 3 week wait.

The change year over year is what made me suspicious.

[Renne Walker]

I received a rather routine form wanting updated info. Buried on the bottom of the form is a list of locations where they have offices with the option to check-off any location I might consider. I just marked NYC. A classmate at the same firm said she was going to check a couple of their other locations (Paris, DC).

I had always heard that if you were in an office, that’s the only place in the world you would ever want to be (especially if you’re still in LS). My anxiety is that after spending all summer proclaiming my love for NYC wouldn’t it be odd to check-off other locations even though I would love to live somewhere smaller and less expensive. My friend says it is just an innocent question and that I am wrong. . .

[fl0w]

I received a rather routine form wanting updated info. Buried on the bottom of the form is a list of locations where they have offices with the option to check-off any location I might consider. I just marked NYC. A classmate at the same firm said she was going to check a couple of their other locations (Paris, DC).

I had always heard that if you were in an office, that’s the only place in the world you would ever want to be (especially if you’re still in LS). My anxiety is that after spending all summer proclaiming my love for NYC wouldn’t it be odd to check-off other locations even though I would love to live somewhere smaller and less expensive. My friend says it is just an innocent question and that I am wrong. . .

so you spent the summer proclaiming your love of NY
you checked NY and turned the form in

what's the question again? are you wondering if your coworker messed up? or do you just regret the fact that you may end up living in NY after trying to convince yourself you wanted it?

[aces]

I think you're being paranoid. They're not going to no-offer you or think any less of you because you might be interested in a few other offices.

[Anonymous User]

I think you're being paranoid. They're not going to no-offer you or think any less of you because you might be interested in a few other offices.

Mine said they no offered a guy last year for expressing interest in a different practice group than the one he was assigned as an SA. I wouldn't assume all firms are so eager to accommodate our interests.

[romothesavior]

I think you're being paranoid. They're not going to no-offer you or think any less of you because you might be interested in a few other offices.

Mine said they no offered a guy last year for expressing interest in a different practice group than the one he was assigned as an SA. I wouldn't assume all firms are so eager to accommodate our interests.

That sounds TTT as hell and I am glad I don't work there. Isn't that one of the keys to a good summer program... find out what you're interested in?

[TTH]

I think you're being paranoid. They're not going to no-offer you or think any less of you because you might be interested in a few other offices.

Mine said they no offered a guy last year for expressing interest in a different practice group than the one he was assigned as an SA. I wouldn't assume all firms are so eager to accommodate our interests.

That sounds TTT as hell and I am glad I don't work there. Isn't that one of the keys to a good summer program... find out what you're interested in?

Depends on the firm maybe? Not all firms have the capacity to let someone come in and do what they want. If they needed someone for corporate and hired for corporate, why keep them if they want to do lit?

Of course, we don't know the whole story. What was he told when he was made the offer for the summer? How strong was his expression of interest? Depending on those answers, it was either TTT as hell or justifiable.