V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

How much does being a non-traditional help or hurt a candidate in the firm's view? I have eight years of professional work experience, including a year and a half of investment banking. Does this type of background help, or potentially hurt when striving for a firm job?

[anon168]

OP, are you saying that kissing ass is neccessary only for the first one or two years? What becomes more important later on? Can you elaborate?

After a year or two, people's abilities really can be differentiated. Talent wins over ass-kissing in my experience.

I disagree. In fact, I think it's just the opposite.

In life, as you get further along, it's less about what you know and more and more about who you know.

I'm not disagreeing with that sentiment. I just think "further along" means partner (or I guess nearly-partner). The less talented guy with amazing client relationships is likely in a better position than the more talented guy who nobody likes. But neither will get there unless they have fundamental skills.

True enough.

But think about it, when those mass layoffs were going on a few years back, they weren't doing it randomly, and for the most part the people that got let go were just as capable as the people that were spared. It basically came down to partners protecting those that they liked.

Because lets face it, we spend alot of time working, and when we are working we spend that time with our colleagues (be they associates or partners), and it's just human nature to want to spend time with people you like.

[fumagalli]

I'm not sure if you're at that point in you're career but have you ever brought in a client for your firm yet?

If you did, how did you do it? What was the process? Was it as simple as asking one of your acquaintance to work with your firm or did it require a lot of schmoozing and persuasion?

[anon168]

I'm not sure if you're at that point in you're career but have you ever brought in a client for your firm yet?

If you did, how did you do it? What was the process? Was it as simple as asking one of your acquaintance to work with your firm or did it require a lot of schmoozing and persuasion?

I'm not the OP, but when I was at my old firm (a V5), there were essentially two ways to bring in a client that the firm would credit you for: origination (O) and proliferation (P). O means that you brought in a brand new client with no previous ties to the firm. P means that you brought in a new matter from an existing client.

I was fortunate enough to have several P credits, but that was due to having friends who were inhouse at several studios. My P credits mainly came from doing good work on an existing project and basically hitting it off (read: kissing major ass) with the client contact on that matter.

So to answer your question, it's both -- contacts and kissing major arse.

Hope that helps.

[itbdvorm]

How much does being a non-traditional help or hurt a candidate in the firm's view? I have eight years of professional work experience, including a year and a half of investment banking. Does this type of background help, or potentially hurt when striving for a firm job?

depends on the experience, you, the firm, etc...

could help, could hurt

[itbdvorm]

True enough.

But think about it, when those mass layoffs were going on a few years back, they weren't doing it randomly, and for the most part the people that got let go were just as capable as the people that were spared. It basically came down to partners protecting those that they liked.

Because lets face it, we spend alot of time working, and when we are working we spend that time with our colleagues (be they associates or partners), and it's just human nature to want to spend time with people you like.

Well that's surely true. But at the junior level it's probably somewhat random (because who knows) and at the senior level, again, talent's going to win.

[itbdvorm]

I'm not sure if you're at that point in you're career but have you ever brought in a client for your firm yet?

If you did, how did you do it? What was the process? Was it as simple as asking one of your acquaintance to work with your firm or did it require a lot of schmoozing and persuasion?

yes. along with some other folks. a senior guy at a client i had developed good relationships with moved elsewhere and contacted us about business. we pitched to him and some other members of management and got hired.

luck, skill and chance.

[anon168]

True enough.

But think about it, when those mass layoffs were going on a few years back, they weren't doing it randomly, and for the most part the people that got let go were just as capable as the people that were spared. It basically came down to partners protecting those that they liked.

Because lets face it, we spend alot of time working, and when we are working we spend that time with our colleagues (be they associates or partners), and it's just human nature to want to spend time with people you like.

Well that's surely true. But at the junior level it's probably somewhat random (because who knows) and at the senior level, again, talent's going to win.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

[fumagalli]

What are your dislikes of being a lawyer?

[Anonymous User]

Have you ever received a particularly effective thank you email? Something that highlights interest in the firm or relevant skills that didn't come across in the screener? Would that ever tip the balance to a cb?

[Anonymous User]

Would it be a good idea to bring up economic diversity (single mother, 1st gen college, not a great neighborhood, etc) and tie it into overcoming obstacles? Or would that risk alienating the interviewer?

[IFoughtTheLaw]

OP, I have nothing to ask, but just wanted to thank you for answering questions for as long as you have, and not getting fed up by a lot of the repeats or inane questions. I just read through all 57 pages, and it was enormously helpful and much appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

I am at the top of my TTT class, good WE, and have an interesting story (or so I've been told). I've received callbacks from a few V10s and V50s. When I go to these CBs, what will be my biggest challenge in convincing the non-alum interviewing partners that I should be given the job? I'm mostly concerned with those partners who went to HYS schools. What's my biggest hurdle, based on your experience?

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Dear OP,
Any words of assurance for those of use who might be considering joining a V15 firm that seems perfect over a V5 or V10 firm? Logically, I know that the Vault rankings are not that useful, but I think that subconsciously they are hard to ignore when you start thinking about TLS buzzwords like "prestige" and "exit options". Please tell me that once you get to this level it's all the same and that this is a stupid concern.

[anon168]

I am at the top of my TTT class, good WE, and have an interesting story (or so I've been told). I've received callbacks from a few V10s and V50s. When I go to these CBs, what will be my biggest challenge in convincing the non-alum interviewing partners that I should be given the job? I'm mostly concerned with those partners who went to HYS schools. What's my biggest hurdle, based on your experience?

Thanks.

I'm not the OP, but indulge me for a moment and allow me to give you my 2 cents after having been in two hiring committees.

You've already gotten the CB. Your perspective should be: "This is why you should hire me. Period"

Your perspective should not be, "This is why you should hire me even though I am from a TTT."

Stress what makes you a good candidate -- e.g. experience, work abilities, writing and research ability, etc.

You've already overcome the non-HYS alum connection with the CB. It's now up to you to show them that they made the right decision by giving you a CB in the first instance.

Best of luck to you.

[anon168]

Dear OP,
Any words of assurance for those of use who might be considering joining a V15 firm that seems perfect over a V5 or V10 firm? Logically, I know that the Vault rankings are not that useful, but I think that subconsciously they are hard to ignore when you start thinking about TLS buzzwords like "prestige" and "exit options". Please tell me that once you get to this level it's all the same and that this is a stupid concern.

Not the OP, but being a good fit and succeeding at your firm is 10x more important than going to a higher Vault ranked firm where you might not enjoy it as much, or be less of a success.

In other words, better to be a rock star at White & Case (for example) than an average associate at Cravath.

[roranoa]

.

[roranoa]

Is there any disadvantages for being older than your peers?

Say, 30-35 yrs old at the time of LS graduation?

Any disadvantages getting into Biglaw or while working there?

[Anonymous User]

Is there any disadvantages for being older than your peers?

Say, 30-35 yrs old at the time of LS graduation?

Any disadvantages getting into Biglaw or while working there?

I'll be around 30 when I graduate and I have found that my slightly olderness has been an asset (having WE, a little more maturity, having interviewed for a real job before, etc.) I have also found it a bit easier to relate to interviewers, esp. partners.

The ONLY question I have received about my age is whether I would be OK with youngins being more senior than me and telling me what to do. I have only been asked the question twice and both times the interviewers did not seem highly concerned about the issue.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have any general kickass CB advice that will really impress other than "do your research" and "be outgoing/yourself"? I've got one coming up, and unfortunately it's looking more and more like it will be my only shot at Biglaw. I'm a T14 transfer and will really regret the transfer if I don't land a job through OCI.

[Anonymous User]

I had an internship with a large accounting firm during undergrad. It was called a marketing internship, but my boss decided to give me different projects after realizing that I could copy edit and draft proposals, publications, etc. Did a lot of work on materials for clients. Would this be something to keep on my resume and use as an interview talking point? Or is an undergrad internship too insignificant? I'm a K-JD with no full time work experience.

Thank you!

[roranoa]

How much office politics does one have to go through to get ahead?

Do you have colleagues that sabotage one another? Do back talk? Form allies and groups just like they do in Survivors?

[anon168]

How much office politics does one have to go through to get ahead?

Do you have colleagues that sabotage one another? Do back talk? Form allies and groups just like they do in Survivors?

Yes, to all of your questions. Or, more like, "of course".

[roranoa]

How much office politics does one have to go through to get ahead?

Do you have colleagues that sabotage one another? Do back talk? Form allies and groups just like they do in Survivors?

Yes, to all of your questions. Or, more like, "of course".

Wow, seriously? Can you give me an example of Biglaw colleague sabotage?

[Anonymous User]

How important should method of compensation be in selecting a firm? Is it relevant that one firm might be on pure lockstep market bonuses while another rewards you for hours worked?

my thinking is that you'll work really hard anywhere so why not get the flexible bonuses.