NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[BigZuck]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

[Anonymous User]

Rly don't like the turn this thread took

[fats provolone]

Skadden killed everything

[Big Shrimpin]

reality bites

mgmt is only concerned about maximizing PPP

not a chance we relive something similar to the great salary wars

LETS UNIONIZE

[runthetrap1990]

^ Didn't mean to anon

[WestOfTheRest]

why did bonuses go up last yr

M&A activity was at a record last year. This year is has fallen off significantly. Apparently, partners aren't happy with their 2-5M/year in the V10.

Really?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/ma-hits- ... inner.html

[BigZuck]

why did bonuses go up last yr

M&A activity was at a record last year. This year is has fallen off significantly. Apparently, partners aren't happy with their 2-5M/year in the V10.

Really?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/ma-hits- ... inner.html

Well then on that note, I think we should start pushing for 200K now

[Desert Fox]

[dixiecupdrinking]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

[PMan99]

why did bonuses go up last yr

M&A activity was at a record last year. This year is has fallen off significantly. Apparently, partners aren't happy with their 2-5M/year in the V10.

Really?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/ma-hits- ... inner.html

From the article: "This time round, the M&A frenzy is being fueled by fewer deals, but with bigger price tags. The number of $10 billion plus deals is 40 percent higher than at the same time in 2007."

Could explain it (although that's 07->15, if 14->15 had the same dynamic there would still be a decrease in lawyer work).

Just from anecdotes I've heard from friends around the industry I think law is in for a bit of a dip from the record '14 across the board. It's been too good for too long for litigation (which thrives best in or right after mild downturns) and I guess transactional is hitting a snag too, although the transactional bros at my firm seem busy enough, I know less about that. You aren't going to see many mega-securities lawsuits when everyone's stock is increasing year over year.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

The argument could be made that large NY firms are losing talent to large firms that pay 160K in other markets because of COL, but I don't know how true that is in practice, especially considering the obsession with Vault-prestige.

[Big Shrimpin]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

The argument could be made that large NY firms are losing talent to large firms that pay 160K in other markets because of COL, but I don't know how true that is in practice, especially considering the obsession with Vault-prestige.

lol nah

MFH PRESTIGE WHORES gonna MFH PRESTIGE WHORE

i speak from personal experience

[alleyoop86]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

There is no world outside of law! Just kidding of course but there is more to recruiting than finding the best of the (currently down) existing talent pool. Gotta compete with business school, etc.

[ND2018]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

110-120k starting isn't uncommon? WTF
Edit: From NY have friends straight out working in the market, it isn't even close.

[jkpolk]

Nyc to 190k!!! I'm using my raise to buy a huge fish tank which I can drown myself in

[Anonymous User]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

110-120k starting isn't uncommon? WTF
Edit: From NY have friends straight out working in the market, it isn't even close.

Second this. Have several friends who went into big tech straight out of undergrad. Salary was more like ~80-90 MAYBE. Although you did get stock, vesting schedules aren't the best, especially when there is some high turnover in these places.

Edit: Also I seriously don't think anyone who has option of going big tech vs law school would choose law school. Everyone knows there is high costs, incredibly stressful work etc. People do it because they don't have the option of casually going to work at google usually.

[Big Shrimpin]

Nyc to 190k!!! I'm using my raise to buy a huge fish tank which I can drown myself in

im buying a skydiving trip and a parachute with holes in it

[SplitMyPants]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

The argument could be made that large NY firms are losing talent to large firms that pay 160K in other markets because of COL, but I don't know how true that is in practice, especially considering the obsession with Vault-prestige.

Do those markets, like Philly, pay NYC lockstep? If not, this argument probably won't hold up. My home secondary's lockstep is shit (they don't pay 160 tho)

[fats provolone]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

The argument could be made that large NY firms are losing talent to large firms that pay 160K in other markets because of COL, but I don't know how true that is in practice, especially considering the obsession with Vault-prestige.

Do those markets, like Philly, pay NYC lockstep? If not, this argument probably won't hold up. My home secondary's lockstep is shit (they don't pay 160 tho)

how many people are thinking about the pay scale though (not that they shouldn't)

new prediction: 1st year salary to 190, rest of pay scale stays the same

[rawrpalooza]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

The argument could be made that large NY firms are losing talent to large firms that pay 160K in other markets because of COL, but I don't know how true that is in practice, especially considering the obsession with Vault-prestige.

Do those markets, like Philly, pay NYC lockstep? If not, this argument probably won't hold up. My home secondary's lockstep is shit (they don't pay 160 tho)

I think that applies more to the major markets that do pay NYC lockstep (i.e. LA, SF, Chi, DC). Anecdotally, multiple people at my school turned down CSM/S&C/DPW for big firms in Chi/LA, partially due to the CoL issue.

[abl]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

The law firms who drive the salary raises aren't the law firms who are really hurting from the talent drain. If anything, as the bottom has fallen out, the difference between elite graduates and non-elite graduates has grown wider--which actually provides the most elite law firms with a relative competitive advantage. 5-10 years ago, the top law schools and top law firms could have filled their entire class with folks that they rejected and seen reasonably little difference. That's not as much of the case anymore. If anyone in private practice is really feeling the heat from this right now, it's the lower T100 firms--firms that may be at market now, but aren't going to be driving any increase in market rate.

I think a much more sensible justification for a market rate increase is if top firms are losing out on candidates to less elite firms in lower COL locations who also pay market (which I think is unlikely to be happening much more now than it did ~5 years ago) or if top firms are struggling with retention (which I think is likely). The problem is that if retention is the issue, what's the point in raising first year salary? It'd make sense to increase lockstep (or bonuses), but for second- or third-years--or at whatever levels that retention starts to come into play.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

Any individual law firm's interest in encouraging college seniors to take the LSAT is ludicrously attenuated. There is no way anyone in a position to increase salaries is thinking about inducing people to attend law school.

[jkpolk]

I'm probably just naive and don't really know anything about anything but considering how much firms have scaled back on summer programs and summer class sizes and the fact that there is a dearth of midlevels as is and the fact that lots of firms pulled in record profits as of last year I'm not really worried about widespread layoffs.

(says the law student)

Don't really think salaries are going up any time soon either though of course.

Yeah I think most firms are stable/fine. There are always exceptions but that's unrelated to the broader market. But the first year salary increase is a solution in search of a problem if we're being honest. People saying that COL has gone up are missing the point. There are no better paying options, and nothing even close to biglaw.

I think law firms should raise base salaries to continue attracting people to go to law school at all. Isn't enrollment at law schools much lower this year? And in SF or NY, getting a 110-120k starting position right out of college isn't uncommon, at least at tech or startup companies. Factor in not having law school debt and the extra 3 years of pay, and law school doesn't seem so enticing when your supposedly super high pay in biglaw isn't that much higher than what you can make in other jobs.

Any individual law firm's interest in encouraging college seniors to take the LSAT is ludicrously attenuated. There is no way anyone in a position to increase salaries is thinking about inducing people to attend law school.

There is definitely pressure from other industries w/r/t junior retention and recruitment yields at elite firms. Encouraging credentialed people to choose law is a struggle even after law school matriculation.

[fats provolone]

even if true, there is zero chance any law firm comp committee is thinking about encouraging 0Ls to go to law school by raising salaries