NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since OCI is now over and I would imagine that responses are slowing to a trickle, would folks be interested in sharing tips/results for next year's class?

I wish I had known that one firm would ask about my undergrad GPA. As a sub-3.0 splitter, I basically sputtered for a while. What I should have done was explain quickly what it was and why, and then point to my NU GPA, which was, unsurprisingly, better. So, future splitters, have a decent canned answer for that question just in case.

Not to be a bitch but... you really didn't foresee that this would come up?

+1. Also, the only useful advice that any 1L really needs is this: get good grades.

[IAFG]

Know your résumé. Have answers for what is on your résumé. I thought that was pretty basic, but if it isn't, let's pass it on down.

[Anonymous User]

Know your résumé. Have answers for what is on your résumé. I thought that was pretty basic, but if it isn't, let's pass it on down.

The fact that this has to be fleshed out explains a lot. Why the f*** would you put something down on your résumé, if you can't knowledgeably talk about it for a few minutes?

[rinkrat19]

Know your résumé. Have answers for what is on your résumé. I thought that was pretty basic, but if it isn't, let's pass it on down.

The fact that this has to be fleshed out explains a lot. Why the f*** would you put something down on your résumé, if you can't knowledgeably talk about it for a few minutes?

Yeah, are there really people who can't talk about a past job? I mean, there are obviously jobs on my resume I can talk MORE about, because I did them longer/it was more recent/I had more interesting responsibilities, but I can TALK about the old ones. Or are we talking like a personal interest that someone just put down to fill space and can't really talk about?

[MrShowtime]

Know your résumé. Have answers for what is on your résumé. I thought that was pretty basic, but if it isn't, let's pass it on down.

The fact that this has to be fleshed out explains a lot. Why the f*** would you put something down on your résumé, if you can't knowledgeably talk about it for a few minutes?

Yeah, are there really people who can't talk about a past job? I mean, there are obviously jobs on my resume I can talk MORE about, because I did them longer/it was more recent/I had more interesting responsibilities, but I can TALK about the old ones. Or are we talking like a personal interest that someone just put down to fill space and can't really talk about?

Takeaway: Don't put BS on your résumé, if you can't BS about the BS for a bit.

[Anonymous User]

Since OCI is now over and I would imagine that responses are slowing to a trickle, would folks be interested in sharing tips/results for next year's class?

I wish I had known that one firm would ask about my undergrad GPA. As a sub-3.0 splitter, I basically sputtered for a while. What I should have done was explain quickly what it was and why, and then point to my NU GPA, which was, unsurprisingly, better. So, future splitters, have a decent canned answer for that question just in case.

Not to be a bitch but... you really didn't foresee that this would come up?

+1. Also, the only useful advice that any 1L really needs is this: get good grades.

Rest assured, my UG GPA was not on my resume. I should have foreseen that I might be asked to provide a data point anyway, but I didn't, which was dumb of me. I was well-prepared for the "tell me about your undergrad experience/major/activities" questions, just wasn't prepared for the "what was your undergrad GPA" question. In other words, I was prepared for and expecting qualitative questions, just not the quantitative give-me-a-hard-number question.

This was dumb! Future 1L's, don't be dumb like me.

And the advice above about knowing your resume is credited-- an interviewer told me about a time that he had met a guy who claimed "guitar" as an interest on his resume. When the interviewee was asked to play the guitar that was in the corner of the callback interviewer's office and couldn't, it was not a good moment.

[Anonymous User]

Just got a "we're still evaluating applications" email from Perkins Coie SF.

[Anonymous User]

Since someone asked for advice for future reference, here goes. I am not pretending like this is the end all and be all of doing well at OCI. But I just wanted to share this in addition to all the obvious advice like "Get good grades; don't be awkward; know your resume."

I can't stress enough the importance of networking and showing interest in the firm. All else lacking, this will not carry the day. But if your numbers are a bit on the low side, and you are otherwise qualified, you stand a fighting chance. You must understand that networking does not equal "schmoozing up a partner and asking for a job." No. In fact, there is no schmoozing at all. You are networking because you are genuinely interested in learning more about the attorneys and the firm for the purpose of leveraging that knowledge to shine in your interviews.

I am the first person in my family to go to law school, and I have no significant connections with any lawyers. For this reason, I started networking from scratch, and made it a priority during the OCI process. I reached out to every junior associate who was a graduate of NU at the firms I was interviewing, and took them out to coffee or lunch before my screeners and callbacks. Go to the hospitality suites, but DON'T just collect your swag, chat up the recruiter for 10 mins, and leave. Talk to everyone and follow up. Ask them out to coffee or lunch. Show genuine interest in the firm. Ask these contacts to tell you things about their firm that are NOT on their website, or vault, or chambers. Take that info and talk about it during your interviews, especially when asked "Why x firm?" But even if they don't ask you, find a way to slip it in without it being awkward. At the end of the day, firms are worried about yield, and they want to make sure the person they are offering wants to be at the firm. All else equal, the person who demonstrates more interest in the firm will get the call. It is not science or an art; it's just human nature... if a candidate appears to want you, you subconsciously (or consciously) find them more appealing.

Also, address interviewers/other people, including administrative staff, by name. They know your name; you should know theirs. "Hi Bob, nice to meet you." "Thank you, Bob, for your time." It doesn't take a lot of effort. Just have to make sure you don't screw up the name. Obviously, if you are not sure about their name, don't even try. Think about all the times when people remembered your name in strange settings. It's a feel good moment for the interviewer. You always want to make them feel good.

I am a T2 transfer with subpar grades. By subpar, I mean that I did not even meet the cutoff at my old school to participate in OCI. You can probably count me in as a median (or lower) candidate if I had done 1L at NU. I have two V25 offers in a competitive market (DC/Chicago). I have turned one down and accepted the other. From what hiring partners/hiring committee members have told me during the offer/callback phone calls, I know my strategy above tilted the scale, if ever so slightly, in my favor. Don't miss out on this easy opportunity to stand out.

[Anonymous User]

I can't stress enough the importance of networking and showing interest in the firm. All else lacking, this will not carry the day. But if your numbers are a bit on the low side, and you are otherwise qualified, you stand a fighting chance. You must understand that networking does not equal "schmoozing up a partner and asking for a job." No. In fact, there is no schmoozing at all. You are networking because you are genuinely interested in learning more about the attorneys and the firm for the purpose of leveraging that knowledge to shine in your interviews.

I am the first person in my family to go to law school, and I have no significant connections with any lawyers. For this reason, I started networking from scratch, and made it a priority during the OCI process. I reached out to every junior associate who was a graduate of NU at the firms I was interviewing, and took them out to coffee or lunch before my screeners and callbacks. Go to the hospitality suites, but DON'T just collect your swag, chat up the recruiter for 10 mins, and leave. Talk to everyone and follow up. Ask them out to coffee or lunch. Show genuine interest in the firm. Ask these contacts to tell you things about their firm that are NOT on their website, or vault, or chambers. Take that info and talk about it during your interviews, especially when asked "Why x firm?" But even if they don't ask you, find a way to slip it in without it being awkward. At the end of the day, firms are worried about yield, and they want to make sure the person they are offering wants to be at the firm. All else equal, the person who demonstrates more interest in the firm will get the call. It is not science or an art; it's just human nature... if a candidate appears to want you, you subconsciously (or consciously) find them more appealing.

Also, address interviewers/other people, including administrative staff, by name. They know your name; you should know theirs. "Hi Bob, nice to meet you." "Thank you, Bob, for your time." It doesn't take a lot of effort. Just have to make sure you don't screw up the name. Obviously, if you are not sure about their name, don't even try. Think about all the times when people remembered your name in strange settings. It's a feel good moment for the interviewer. You always want to make them feel good.

I am a T2 transfer with subpar grades. By subpar, I mean that I did not even meet the cutoff at my old school to participate in OCI. You can probably count me in as a median (or lower) candidate if I had done 1L at NU. I have two V25 offers in a competitive market (DC/Chicago). I have turned one down and accepted the other. From what hiring partners/hiring committee members have told me during the offer/callback phone calls, I know my strategy above tilted the scale, if ever so slightly, in my favor. Don't miss out on this easy opportunity to stand out.

i can attest to all of this. well said.

[Anonymous User]

Since someone asked for advice for future reference, here goes. I am not pretending like this is the end all and be all of doing well at OCI. But I just wanted to share this in addition to all the obvious advice like "Get good grades; don't be awkward; know your resume."

I can't stress enough the importance of networking and showing interest in the firm. All else lacking, this will not carry the day. But if your numbers are a bit on the low side, and you are otherwise qualified, you stand a fighting chance. You must understand that networking does not equal "schmoozing up a partner and asking for a job." No. In fact, there is no schmoozing at all. You are networking because you are genuinely interested in learning more about the attorneys and the firm for the purpose of leveraging that knowledge to shine in your interviews.

I am the first person in my family to go to law school, and I have no significant connections with any lawyers. For this reason, I started networking from scratch, and made it a priority during the OCI process. I reached out to every junior associate who was a graduate of NU at the firms I was interviewing, and took them out to coffee or lunch before my screeners and callbacks. Go to the hospitality suites, but DON'T just collect your swag, chat up the recruiter for 10 mins, and leave. Talk to everyone and follow up. Ask them out to coffee or lunch. Show genuine interest in the firm. Ask these contacts to tell you things about their firm that are NOT on their website, or vault, or chambers. Take that info and talk about it during your interviews, especially when asked "Why x firm?" But even if they don't ask you, find a way to slip it in without it being awkward. At the end of the day, firms are worried about yield, and they want to make sure the person they are offering wants to be at the firm. All else equal, the person who demonstrates more interest in the firm will get the call. It is not science or an art; it's just human nature... if a candidate appears to want you, you subconsciously (or consciously) find them more appealing.

Also, address interviewers/other people, including administrative staff, by name. They know your name; you should know theirs. "Hi Bob, nice to meet you." "Thank you, Bob, for your time." It doesn't take a lot of effort. Just have to make sure you don't screw up the name. Obviously, if you are not sure about their name, don't even try. Think about all the times when people remembered your name in strange settings. It's a feel good moment for the interviewer. You always want to make them feel good.

I am a T2 transfer with subpar grades. By subpar, I mean that I did not even meet the cutoff at my old school to participate in OCI. You can probably count me in as a median (or lower) candidate if I had done 1L at NU. I have two V25 offers in a competitive market (DC/Chicago). I have turned one down and accepted the other. From what hiring partners/hiring committee members have told me during the offer/callback phone calls, I know my strategy above tilted the scale, if ever so slightly, in my favor. Don't miss out on this easy opportunity to stand out.

You're also in a much easier year for OCI it seems like, at least for transfers. Transfers from last year did not do well at OCI at all. Most of us got 0 to 1 callback, even those who transferred from T1 schools, and/or had work experience, and/or had top 10% grades. I (and plenty of others) did what you're saying above, and many of us still didn't get V25 offers (or V50, or V100 for that matter). So there is definitely an element of luck and timing.

[franklyscarlet]

Jumping in on the advice wagon:

extra everything in your locker. Resume paper, hose, a shirt, etc. You may never use them, but if you're anything like me it's going to make you much calmer knowing it's in close reach if anything happens.

Seconding the idea of bringing an ipad/laptop to look up interviewers. Very helpful.

I also brought some light reading for between interviews, a jane austen book.it relaxed me. I also brought a sweater so I could hang up my jacket and not wrinkle it.

In the end, none of this crap matters that much. The point is, do whatever it takes for you to feel comfortable and relaxed.

[Anonymous User]

Jumping in on the advice wagon:

extra everything in your locker. Resume paper, hose, a shirt, etc. You may never use them, but if you're anything like me it's going to make you much calmer knowing it's in close reach if anything happens.

Seconding the idea of bringing an ipad/laptop to look up interviewers. Very helpful.

I also brought some light reading for between interviews, a jane austen book.it relaxed me. I also brought a sweater so I could hang up my jacket and not wrinkle it.

In the end, none of this crap matters that much. The point is, do whatever it takes for you to feel comfortable and relaxed.

If you're traveling, get a garment bag. If an $80 bag can save a few trips to the dry cleaners, it will pay for itself. Also, get a travel steamer to remove tie wrinkles and any residual creases in your non-iron shirts (you really don't want to be worrying about ironing on CBs) and suit.

Also, for a cheap tie that doesn't look cheap, use TheTieBar.com - $15 per tie plus $7 shipping per order doesn't get you a tie that looks like it's worth $100, but it does get you one that looks like it's worth $50 and keeps appearing in GQ. You're going to destroy a lot of ties by traveling, so why destroy expensive ones?

And a final pro tip: don't show up to the interview sunburned. Got a post-CB ding this way.

[Anonymous User]

the networking advice above is solid but is honestly overkill and not a realistic goal nor best use of your time during the school year (grades > almost everything else)

you should do what that guy/gal is suggesting- but for no more than 5 or so firms that are plausibly within reach (if you have a 3.3 don't try to hit up cravath) in a market you have plausible ties to (or have a convincing narrative for). also, if you search the attorneys in that firm and there are no or very few NU alumni, this is a bad sign.

I am definitely not trying to say networking is not important but just like mass mailing, it should be targeted for optimal results.

not sure if this is also part of the "obvious" advice, but hustle. there are 10 days of oci, you have the opportunity to get 1-3 extra screeners a day if you get there early as fuck and bother attorneys before they start the day. drop off the resume, say you would love a chance to interview with them and most (if you are within GPA range and you look enthusiastic as fuck) will either give you a 5 minute screener right there, or schedule you in during a break/lunch. a big mistake I saw was plenty of people would hustle but say something like "I just wanted to drop off my resume" and basically cut off their own chance for a mini screener.

last, 1Ls, if you are reading this, bookmark this for later. go study.

[splitsplat]

accidental anon above, that was me ^

[Anonymous User]

the networking advice above is solid but is honestly overkill and not a realistic goal nor best use of your time during the school year (grades > almost everything else)

you should do what that guy/gal is suggesting- but for no more than 5 or so firms that are plausibly within reach (if you have a 3.3 don't try to hit up cravath) in a market you have plausible ties to (or have a convincing narrative for). also, if you search the attorneys in that firm and there are no or very few NU alumni, this is a bad sign.

I am definitely not trying to say networking is not important but just like mass mailing, it should be targeted for optimal results.

not sure if this is also part of the "obvious" advice, but hustle. there are 10 days of oci, you have the opportunity to get 1-3 extra screeners a day if you get there early as fuck and bother attorneys before they start the day. drop off the resume, say you would love a chance to interview with them and most (if you are within GPA range and you look enthusiastic as fuck) will either give you a 5 minute screener right there, or schedule you in during a break/lunch. a big mistake I saw was plenty of people would hustle but say something like "I just wanted to drop off my resume" and basically cut off their own chance for a mini screener.

last, 1Ls, if you are reading this, bookmark this for later. go study.

I dunno, I think things will work out okay for me, but I do regret not networking during the year. Unless you are an absolutely awesome interviewer or have fantastic grades, I think that having a connection with the firm (and being able to demonstrate that you were interested in the firm months before OCI) is really useful. At the very least, you have a strong intro to the "why this firm?" question. And it's not like any studying that you do during September, October, and November is going to have a dramatic effect on grades, all 1Ls have to do is keep up with the reading right now and that isn't too difficult.

The part about hustling during OCI is very credited though. I netted 3-4 CBs through hustling during OCI and massmailing.

Also, do as much as you can to ensure you're a good interviewer. One thing that freaked me out right before OCI was that everyone stopped talking about grades and started talking about interview skill. My impression is that people not in the top 20 percent and not in the bottom 20-30 percent are roughly equal as far as grades goes.

[bk1]

There are a lot of things wrong (or at least off the mark) with the above post.

but is honestly overkill and not a realistic goal nor best use of your time during the school year (grades > almost everything else)

Yes and no. Grades are a very important and you should focus on getting the best grades you can. That said, you can easily put forth maximum effort during the school year towards grades while still having time to network and do other stuff. On top of that, it isn't always about grades. At certain stages in the interviewing process, networking might matter more (e.g. once you have a callback, having networked might be more beneficial than having a 3.6 instead of a 3.5).

you should do what that guy/gal is suggesting- but for no more than 5 or so firms that are plausibly within reach (if you have a 3.3 don't try to hit up cravath) in a market you have plausible ties to (or have a convincing narrative for). also, if you search the attorneys in that firm and there are no or very few NU alumni, this is a bad sign.

While I agree with the advice that your first targets should be firms that are most likely to hire you (due to grades and ties), 5 is an arbitrarily low number. You should network with as many as you have the time for. Keep in mind that plenty of people won't even respond to cold emails/calls so you may have to reach out to far more people than you actually end up networking with. Also, while no/few alums can be a bad sign, it isn't necessarily a bad sign.

I am definitely not trying to say networking is not important but just like mass mailing, it should be targeted for optimal results.

Of course, but the reality is that it should be both targeted and mass.

[Icculus]

And a final pro tip: don't show up to the interview sunburned. Got a post-CB ding this way.

This cannot possibly be the reason you got dinged. I mean with all the reasons a firm could not want to hire you, you think sunburn put you over to the reject pile?

[Icculus]

There is some great advice here, and the key thing is making sure you are as relaxed and comfortable as possible. But I want to stress the mass mailing and targeted mailing advice. I spoke with someone who struck and they told me they were "going to start mass mailing." This was this week, after classes started. People should be mass mailing before OCI, during, and after.

[Anonymous User]

And a final pro tip: don't show up to the interview sunburned. Got a post-CB ding this way.

This cannot possibly be the reason you got dinged. I mean with all the reasons a firm could not want to hire you, you think sunburn put you over to the reject pile?

Perhaps my sense of humor and the internet do not mix well.

[Icculus]

And a final pro tip: don't show up to the interview sunburned. Got a post-CB ding this way.

This cannot possibly be the reason you got dinged. I mean with all the reasons a firm could not want to hire you, you think sunburn put you over to the reject pile?

Perhaps my sense of humor and the internet do not mix well.

At first I thought there was no way you were serious, but with some things I have read here you never know. My bad.

[Anonymous User]

Know your résumé. Have answers for what is on your résumé. I thought that was pretty basic, but if it isn't, let's pass it on down.

The fact that this has to be fleshed out explains a lot. Why the f*** would you put something down on your résumé, if you can't knowledgeably talk about it for a few minutes?

Yeah, are there really people who can't talk about a past job? I mean, there are obviously jobs on my resume I can talk MORE about, because I did them longer/it was more recent/I had more interesting responsibilities, but I can TALK about the old ones. Or are we talking like a personal interest that someone just put down to fill space and can't really talk about?

There's a difference between knowing what jobs are on your resume and knowing your resume. I had two or three interviews where I had interviewers ask me about a relatively minor bullet point on relatively minor jobs. They didn't go "Tell me about your time at XX." If I hadn't known that I specifically put that description for job at XX, I would have looked incredibly dumb. One reworded part of my volunteer service and asked me about it, and I'm 95% sure it was just to see if I could figure out what he was talking about.

Other advice: if you're targeting other markets and scheduling CBs, etc., keep in mind the time difference. I never got screwed by this, but came close a few times.

ORDER YOUR TRANSCRIPT AHEAD OF TIME AND PICK IT UP IMMEDIATELY.

Re: hustling during OCI: DO. THIS. I have an offer from a place I initially missed out on after bidding ended.

If you know you're not normally someone who is gregarious, etc., work on it. You don't have to be the most sociable person ever, but work on being open and personable. Or even just comfortable in a setting like OCI. I have a friend who is way over performing his numbers, and I think a huge part of it is that he's just a relatively likeable person.

Have an interests section. I have relatively mundane interests, but I am good at them and can talk about them. I'd say they came up, a lot of the times first, in...75% of interviews, including the ones on callbacks. ESPECIALLY if you have something that can be un-stereotypical for your sex/race/orientation/age/etc. My career adviser said the one first listed on my resume would spark a lot of interest, even though it wasn't anything particularly exciting or novel, because most people wouldn't automatically associate it with my sex.

Carry an extra pair of dress socks. A dry pair in the middle of a long interview day is a godsend.

Be prepared to discuss discrepancies on your transcript. I did better second semester and was asked about it. Didn't happen often (probably 2-3 times), but don't get caught off guard.

PRACTICE. INTERVIEWING. All I did was just sit down with a couple of friends a few days before and had them ask me questions about myself and my resume. Narrowed down my responses to a handful of basic things that enabled me to get across what I wanted to. This way, whether I was asked about A, B, or C, I could always funnel my answer back to Z. This is really, really, really important, ESPECIALLY if any of your top choices are one of your first interviews. I know it really doesn't matter if they're top choice or not, try your hardest, etc., etc., but you do NOT want to blow it with a firm you're really interested in because you're "warming up."

ETA: Read your resume out loud. Slowly. Several times. ESPECIALLY after you have finished your summer job, because then the verb tense changes. Do it again the next day, and then a week later.

[Anonymous User]

Snail mail dings from Polsinelli (I mass-mailed them all of 6 days ago), Leydig and Banner Witcoff. Happy Saturday!

[Anonymous User]

Snail mail dings from Polsinelli (I mass-mailed them all of 6 days ago), Leydig and Banner Witcoff. Happy Saturday!

Sorry about that. Which market for Polsinelli?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone done a callback with McDermott and heard back? Crickets here, 2 weeks post CB.

[Anonymous User]

Snail mail dings from Polsinelli (I mass-mailed them all of 6 days ago), Leydig and Banner Witcoff. Happy Saturday!

Sorry about that. Which market for Polsinelli?

denver