Kirkland announced 3x/week “hybrid” return to office, attorneys “expected” to be in office Tuesday-Thursday Forum

[Anonymous User]

Fabricated, eh? DPW has only a 4:1 ratio of top equity to bottom equity. The numbers don't work if 1st year equity is under $2.5m (and I know for a fact that first year equity is over that).

You work for KE HR?

Serious question: how do the numbers not work? It's not possible to reverse engineer what first year equity is by knowing the PEP and the top/bottom ratio, is it?

What I meant is that the numbers don't work out if 1st year comp is under $2.5 million given the relatively narrow DPW spread.

This still doesn't make sense, does it? You have no idea how many people are at the top or bottom of the equity. Bottom of equity could be $1.7m, top of equity could be $6.8m and PEP could still be $6.35m.

Senior DPW partners who transitioned to the government reported ~12 million in comp.

Maybe an outlier? This reports otherwise (though it's a year behind), but unless we get a DPW partner on here, I suppose we're all just guessing:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... -arms-race

Edited to add that it also depends on when the disclosure was made. The disclosures sometimes will include the prior calendar year, as well as YTD of the year of disclosure, so if the majority of partner comp comes in January (which is how most firms do it), the disclosure may include two consecutive January pays (e.g., Jan. 2020 and Jan. 2021) and thus overstate a yearly compensation by quite a lot.

See, e.g., https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindu ... 021-06-21/ (disclosure included prior calendar year as well as current year up to date of disclosure).

Also the discussion wasn't about senior partners, and there are absolutely senior KE partners making that and more.

Anyway, da da da, another thread bites the dust. Another thread, another thread, another thread bites the dust.

We get it, everyone hates Kirkland and thinks everyone that works there is a schmuck that didn't have better options. Okey-dokey. I'm happy here and so is my pocketbook

[Anonymous User]

ITT: Reasons to avoid K&E at all costs.

Oh yeah, the other v10 firms only have kind, gentle and agreeable lawyers. It will be great.

God damn why are the KE people on here always so thin of the skin? I'm at KE too and this type of shit makes me cringe.

"Oh yeah I'm sure we're the only firm that has sweatshop hours right?"

"Oh yeah associates at other firms must be so kindhearted and never have bad days right!?!"

"Oh yeah and I bet partners at other firms CARE SO MUCH about their associates uh huh"

Jfc. Grow up. It's the internet, we work at a firm with a huge number of attorneys and many of them are active here and it naturally leads to KE being discussed more commonly. Yes, sometimes there are generalizations. Such is the nature of a forum dedicated to discussing life in big law. I'd rather our reputation (even if undeserved) be for having aggressive attorneys than thin skinned, whiny woe-mes.

It is the typical KE inferiority complex. They know that the culture is terrible and recruiting is bottom of the barrel, and so desperately try to make themselves feel on par with DPW/Cravath, which they never will be.

And for all the people pretending that GPAs, pedigree, etc... don't matter, keep dreaming. There is a reason DPW is full of Harvard grads and not Hofstra goods, and you can sure as heck bet that on a bet the company corporate deal I want the attorney with 50 more IQ points and not 50 fewer IQ points.

As if Harvard law was so selective and wouldn't take anyone with a pulse from Hofstra undergrad who aced English literature and a standardized test that allows infinite attempts. Anyone who is obsessed with prestige but can't get the best is just sad, like wanting a supercar but can only afford a Macan. Drool over the prestige of exclusivity but can only settle with what's generally accessible for a large number of people. Harvard is not Yale and DPW is not wachtell. Wake up

[almostperfectt]

I can't believe I entered this 6 page KE thread actually expecting discussion about RTO

[Anonymous User]

I can't believe I entered this 6 page KE thread actually expecting discussion about RTO

Seriously...90% of the posts have nothing to do with the policy.

Last time Kirkland had us return, most associates ignored the policy. I wonder if that'll still be Kosher. Would affect whether I want to move closer to the office. I'm assuming right now that 2x a week won't be an issue at all.

[Anonymous User]

I can't believe I entered this 6 page KE thread actually expecting discussion about RTO

Seriously...90% of the posts have nothing to do with the policy.

Last time Kirkland had us return, most associates ignored the policy. I wonder if that'll still be Kosher. Would affect whether I want to move closer to the office. I'm assuming right now that 2x a week won't be an issue at all.

My guess is that by May, associates who don’t average at least 1x weekly in the office are gonna get talked to. Maybe it will be more stringent than that, but I doubt by very much.

[Anonymous User]

I can't believe I entered this 6 page KE thread actually expecting discussion about RTO

Seriously...90% of the posts have nothing to do with the policy.

Last time Kirkland had us return, most associates ignored the policy. I wonder if that'll still be Kosher. Would affect whether I want to move closer to the office. I'm assuming right now that 2x a week won't be an issue at all.

My guess is that by May, associates who don’t average at least 1x weekly in the office are gonna get talked to. Maybe it will be more stringent than that, but I doubt by very much.

I think this will depend a lot on if they keep the cafeteria free. If not, really no reason to come in.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but is it true that Kirkland generally expects lawyers to be responsive between 11pm to 3am? I am somewhat interested in making a lateral move into a NSP position. However, I used to work in a role as a junior attorney where I’d wake up at 2am every night to answer a bunch of emails. It would then take me a couple of hours to calm down and get back to sleep. That role messed up my health for years.

[Sackboy]

is it true that Kirkland generally expects lawyers to be responsive between 11pm to 3am?

This can't be a real question. On a deal that is closing or know something important is happening during those hours? Sure. If not? No fucking way.

[Anonymous User]

Earlier post was me. I know it sounds like a joke, but my recruiter told me not to apply, as Kirkland associates had told his candidates *during the interview process* to be responsive at 3am at all times, or don’t join the firm. I’m also originally from outside the US and have only worked here the last couple of years, so I’m still not 100% on top of how things work outside of my own firm.

[Sackboy]

Earlier post was me. I know it sounds like a joke, but my recruiter told me not to apply, as Kirkland associates had told his candidates *during the interview process* to be responsive at 3am at all times, or don’t join the firm. I’m also originally from outside the US and have only worked here the last couple of years, so I’m still not 100% on top of how things work outside of my own firm.

I no longer work at KE but did work at KE at some point not terribly long ago doing corporate work. This is in no way a daily expectation.

[Anonymous User]

Earlier post was me. I know it sounds like a joke, but my recruiter told me not to apply, as Kirkland associates had told his candidates *during the interview process* to be responsive at 3am at all times, or don’t join the firm. I’m also originally from outside the US and have only worked here the last couple of years, so I’m still not 100% on top of how things work outside of my own firm.

I no longer work at KE but did work at KE at some point not terribly long ago doing corporate work. This is in no way a daily expectation.

I used to work at K&E NY. Hate to say it, but it depends on who you’re working for. There are cross border deals (and investigations) where it may be necessary to take calls and be responsive well after midnight.

Now, this certainly isn’t the norm but there’s a growing number of associates drawn into cross-border deals on the corporate side and international investigations/arbitrations on the litigation side. The work sucks and the partners doing that work expect you to be responsive when they are on the other side of the planet which is I-N-S-A-N-E.

If you manage to stay on the domestic side of the matters the firm handles, it’s highly unusual (barring closing/trial/etc) that you’re expected to be responsive so late. If you’re working with the CA offices, 1-3AM emails could (and indeed do) happen far more frequently unfortunately.

Just wanted to drop my 2 cents. Most associates will not be expected to be available so late/early. But some unfortunate souls will. Not always in your control which bucket you will fall into sadly. One of the reasons I left biglaw. Sleep is good.

[Anonymous User]

I am a Kirkland mid/senior level associate in NY. It's NOT an expectation that you'd be available at 11pm unless there is a very specific, advance notice warning and reason to be responsive at that time. The rest is bluster and bravado.

[Anonymous User]

I am a Kirkland mid/senior level associate in NY. It's NOT an expectation that you'd be available at 11pm unless there is a very specific, advance notice warning and reason to be responsive at that time. The rest is bluster and bravado.

I'm a mid level at a peer firm. Basically this. The closest I get is when emails are still continually flowing until like 10:45. If I don't think anything else is coming, I'll inform the other (or senior) person on the deal with me and say "hey unless anything else is needed I'm going to log off/head home".

Don't do this unless you're pretty sure nothing else is needed.

[Anonymous User]

I am a Kirkland mid/senior level associate in NY. It's NOT an expectation that you'd be available at 11pm unless there is a very specific, advance notice warning and reason to be responsive at that time. The rest is bluster and bravado.

I'm a mid level at a peer firm. Basically this. The closest I get is when emails are still continually flowing until like 10:45. If I don't think anything else is coming, I'll inform the other (or senior) person on the deal with me and say "hey unless anything else is needed I'm going to log off/head home".

Don't do this unless you're pretty sure nothing else is needed.

I’m an associate at KE Houston and it’s the same thing here. If things are continuously flowing in as the hours go by (either for a closing or because we need to get out a DD memo by the following morning and everyone is collaborating to make it happen, or whatever) and the last email came in at 10:45pm, then yeah you probably shouldn’t disappear at 11pm without asking someone first. Same if things are quiet but someone previously warned you it might go late, or it’s the sort of event that traditionally goes late (like a closing).

On a normal day when none of those situations is occurring, I’m not checking shit after like 9pm (and if it’s slow, my inbox glances aren’t that frequent after like 6pm). If some emergency comes up that’s totally unexpected, they can call my phone.

No way in hell would I ever wake up at 2am on the off chance someone sent me something. That’s insane and I would lateral immediately. Staying up continuously until 5am the night of a closing? Sure. But during normal days that’s just psychotic.

[Anonymous User]

Former k&e corp associate here, this is absolutely not true unless there is signing or closing as others mentioned, especially not in this market and especially given k&e’s hemorrhaging right now. If you are a psycho gunning for partner maybe you want to be absurdly responsive but otherwise anything after 7 or 8 can be met with a will do (or response in the AM after 9/10) unless context is clear that response is required that night.

[Anonymous User]

I am a Kirkland mid/senior level associate in NY. It's NOT an expectation that you'd be available at 11pm unless there is a very specific, advance notice warning and reason to be responsive at that time. The rest is bluster and bravado.

I'm a mid level at a peer firm. Basically this. The closest I get is when emails are still continually flowing until like 10:45. If I don't think anything else is coming, I'll inform the other (or senior) person on the deal with me and say "hey unless anything else is needed I'm going to log off/head home".

Don't do this unless you're pretty sure nothing else is needed.

I’m an associate at KE Houston and it’s the same thing here. If things are continuously flowing in as the hours go by (either for a closing or because we need to get out a DD memo by the following morning and everyone is collaborating to make it happen, or whatever) and the last email came in at 10:45pm, then yeah you probably shouldn’t disappear at 11pm without asking someone first. Same if things are quiet but someone previously warned you it might go late, or it’s the sort of event that traditionally goes late (like a closing).

On a normal day when none of those situations is occurring, I’m not checking shit after like 9pm (and if it’s slow, my inbox glances aren’t that frequent after like 6pm). If some emergency comes up that’s totally unexpected, they can call my phone.

No way in hell would I ever wake up at 2am on the off chance someone sent me something. That’s insane and I would lateral immediately. Staying up continuously until 5am the night of a closing? Sure. But during normal days that’s just psychotic.

K&E NSP here. TITCR.