Summer Internships and Corona Forum

[Anonymous User]

I don't think anyone should be like, complaining about getting $20K + $10K advance and guaranteed offer for doing no work.

I *do* think it's a little ... concerning ... that S&C is breaking ranks, given how many other firms, of varying "prestige" and profitability, that have decided to pay out their summers for a full year. Highly doubt that they *wanted* to do this...

Unless you seriously think we should sit at home, do nothing, and just have a giant space on our resumes instead of doing any legal work, we are all going to have to search for alternative work, during finals, for this summer. We're actually going to have to work even harder, for less pay, than our friends at other comparable (and prior to this TTT move, not comparable) firms.

Uh, yeah, that is exactly what I think you should do. Why would you look for something else?

Because when the firm lays us all off or pulls some more bullshit, we probably want to point to some other legal experience other than “trusted S&C’s meaningless word” for the summer. Also some of us were relying on that income and have no intention of tying our hands and taking their 30 pieces of silver.

Look man you're mad and I get it, this sucks. But actual attorneys in this thread are telling you that (1) nobody is going to hold this against you, and (2) biglaw summer programs are a joke and don't represent "experience" valued by any other employer. Summers are important purely for signaling value, and if you got hired by S&C you'll be totally fine in that regard. Like, do pro bono work if you want, that's admirable and I'm sure there's a societal need for it, but you absolutely do not have to secure another job this summer to get hired in the future.

[Anonymous User]

Because when the firm lays us all off or pulls some more bullshit, we probably want to point to some other legal experience other than “trusted S&C’s meaningless word” for the summer. Also some of us were relying on that income and have no intention of tying our hands and taking their 30 pieces of silver.

Let's get real. No one is hiring additional interns (let alone paid interns) on May 1 in the middle of the coronavirus. If you wanna RA, go for it, but that's likely the only option right now. And if you're set on 3L OCI, that RA thing isn't going to get you any jobs you wouldn't otherwise get just via grades + school + having the S&C brand on the resume.

I would just watch Netflix, get drunk, and text your friends. Honestly that's all you were gonna do at S&C anyway. No one (judge, clerk, other law firm, whatever) will hold a canceled summer against you.

While I agree that getting $20K and chilling isn't the worst thing in the world, I'd be pretty pissed too if all my friends were getting $40K to fuck around on Zoom and not do any work. We all know S&C summers aren't going to do nothing this summer, they'll RA or something. Odd that so many people are defending a pretty clear screwjob by a V5 firm though, it'd have barely cost S&C to make their summers whole if the partners couldnt be bothered to pretend to care about Zoom for a few weeks. I can't imagine anyone in their summer class is very happy.

[QContinuum]

Here's the full list of firms that you would be making more money at this summer than at S&C ...

Is that list really accurate, though?

• Cravath has delayed start at least until mid-June, and hasn't promised not to prorate pay.
• Ditto Quinn (see Cravath).
• White & Case will prorate pay; they're anticipating 7 weeks.
• Cooley will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks. Further, Cooley has expressly declined to guarantee 100% offers.
• Alston & Bird will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• McDermott cancelled the summer program, and instead offered a $20k stipend.
• Pillsbury will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• Foley will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• Fenwick hasn't promised not to prorate pay. They likely will prorate, because if they were going to pay 10 weeks for 6 weeks' work, I imagine they would've said so when they cut the program down to 6 weeks.
• Same for HayBoo (see Fenwick).
• Same for Davis Wright (see Fenwick).
• Same for Kilpatrick (see Fenwick).
• Same for Mintz Levin (see Fenwick).
• Same for Littler (see Fenwick).
• Foley will prorate pay, but if they cancel the program altogether, which they're still considering, they will merely offer a "meaningful" stipend. Even if the program goes ahead, it'll be 6 weeks max.

And as for JD, they have a history of treating summers better than full-time associates. In '18, summers got bumped to $190k before first-years did.

To be clear, I'm not defending S&C's move. But I think it's irresponsible to spread misinformation about what other firms are doing. It's also foolish because plenty of firms are guaranteeing a full 10 weeks' pay, so there's really no need to exaggerate by pulling in firms that either haven't guaranteed full pay, or have already said they won't be paying the full 10 weeks.

Finally, even if S&C proves to be the stingiest V10 (which it may not be - still a number of radio-silent V10s yet to announce), that still wouldn't make it a good idea for a S&C summer to switch to, say, Hogan or JD.

It's pretty accurate, S&C is paying them a little over 5 weeks for the summer, so any firm prorating to 6 will be paying more than them.

Ya I don't really get what QContinuum was trying to get at, 5 wks of pay < 6wks of pay

QContinuum was trying to get at the fact that those firms have not guaranteed 6 weeks of pay. They may end up paying more than S&C, or they may end up paying less. Foley was explicit about the possibility of paying summers less than 6 weeks (see the "meaningful" stipend language above). The other firms were more glib than Foley by not spelling it out, but they haven't really promised the opposite either. Saying they currently "anticipate" a 6-week summer isn't the same as guaranteeing a 6-week summer. Recall that once upon a time - and not so very long ago - S&C anticipated an 8-week summer starting in mid-June, before that changed.

[Anonymous User]

Here's the full list of firms that you would be making more money at this summer than at S&C ...

Is that list really accurate, though?

• Cravath has delayed start at least until mid-June, and hasn't promised not to prorate pay.
• Ditto Quinn (see Cravath).
• White & Case will prorate pay; they're anticipating 7 weeks.
• Cooley will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks. Further, Cooley has expressly declined to guarantee 100% offers.
• Alston & Bird will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• McDermott cancelled the summer program, and instead offered a $20k stipend.
• Pillsbury will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• Foley will prorate pay; they're anticipating 6 weeks.
• Fenwick hasn't promised not to prorate pay. They likely will prorate, because if they were going to pay 10 weeks for 6 weeks' work, I imagine they would've said so when they cut the program down to 6 weeks.
• Same for HayBoo (see Fenwick).
• Same for Davis Wright (see Fenwick).
• Same for Kilpatrick (see Fenwick).
• Same for Mintz Levin (see Fenwick).
• Same for Littler (see Fenwick).
• Foley will prorate pay, but if they cancel the program altogether, which they're still considering, they will merely offer a "meaningful" stipend. Even if the program goes ahead, it'll be 6 weeks max.

And as for JD, they have a history of treating summers better than full-time associates. In '18, summers got bumped to $190k before first-years did.

To be clear, I'm not defending S&C's move. But I think it's irresponsible to spread misinformation about what other firms are doing. It's also foolish because plenty of firms are guaranteeing a full 10 weeks' pay, so there's really no need to exaggerate by pulling in firms that either haven't guaranteed full pay, or have already said they won't be paying the full 10 weeks.

Finally, even if S&C proves to be the stingiest V10 (which it may not be - still a number of radio-silent V10s yet to announce), that still wouldn't make it a good idea for a S&C summer to switch to, say, Hogan or JD.

It's pretty accurate, S&C is paying them a little over 5 weeks for the summer, so any firm prorating to 6 will be paying more than them.

Ya I don't really get what QContinuum was trying to get at, 5 wks of pay < 6wks of pay

QContinuum was trying to get at the fact that those firms have not guaranteed 6 weeks of pay. They may end up paying more than S&C, or they may end up paying less. Foley was explicit about the possibility of paying summers less than 6 weeks (see the "meaningful" stipend language above). The other firms were more glib than Foley by not spelling it out, but they haven't really promised the opposite either. Saying they currently "anticipate" a 6-week summer isn't the same as guaranteeing a 6-week summer. Recall that once upon a time - and not so very long ago - S&C anticipated an 8-week summer starting in mid-June, before that changed.

I'm sure it'll warm the hearts of S&C summers everywhere to know that Mintz Levin (V96), as opposed to paying more than they are getting, may just possibly get less.


Let's be real, this is a clown move by S&C, everyone at my school I've spoken to working there thinks they were lied to, and the administration has already called to complain about their treatment and offer support at 3L OCI. That does not really mean anything, most of them will probably end up at S&C anyway, but no one who just lost $15,000 because S&C partners are unbelievably greedy is happy watching Netflix.

[Dunnkirk85]

Am I clear that folks ITT are getting upset that they are getting 20k for doing no work, and a guaranteed offer? Seriously?

This is boomer mentality. The problem isn’t that it’s unreasonable, the problem is their peers who are far less profitable and less “presitigious” are doing otherwise

No this isn't Boomer mentality. I graduated within the past 3 years. Getting upset that you are getting 20,000 for doing nothing and will have a guaranteed full time job that pays 200k right out of school is an entitled mentality, especially when 30million people are out of the labor force. Somehow people here seem to think they earned the 35,000 by getting an offer. It's just laughable, whether you are comparing SC to other firms, or not.

You should have stayed anon if you are going to say something this asinine. We aren't upset we are getting $19K for doing nothing this summer, we are upset because S&C made false representations to remove us from jobs where we would have made $38K and then insulted our intelligence with this offer. If you think summers do real work for firms then I have no idea what to tell you. A $10K advance is just a way to tie us to the firm, it's money we already had.


Is this as bad as Lathaming? Of course it isn't and I certainly am not stating that it is. But there is absolutely zero indication S&C is in dire straights due to the virus, their partners are still making money hand over fist, and all of their competitors that we received offers at are making their summers whole. Much less profitable firms have had partners take reduced draws and still did right by their summers. This is a firm that heavily recruits itself as financially stable, bragging about how they own their own office, fired no one during the last recession, etc. Yet their first instinct during this recession was to stiff their summers and insult them while doing so.


Those of us who can leave certainly will - I'll collect my $20K to do nothing, do whatever pro bono work I can scrounge up during finals, and then clerk for my judge and jump ship to any other firm that will have me. Others will leave for some of the litigation boutiques that hire during 3L OCI - we know they have the grades to at least be competitive. I feel bad for the people that left offers at better firms on the table and have to grin and bear this insult; we already know S&C's word is worth nothing and they don't care about putting even minimal effort into helping their new hires, so who knows what a "guaranteed offer" really means?



Edit: About 10 seconds after I wrote this, the mighty V20 Ropes managed to figure out how to run a program for 5 weeks and pay people fully

1) Why?
2) Good luck getting another job equivalent to SC in this market as a 3L.
3) They gave you an offer, and then guaranteed you a job without any work product or personality test. I would say that's something. They could do a 5 week zoom program and not give everyone offers because they don't seem to fit in over video chat.
4) aren't they setting you up with pro bono opportunities and setting up interactions with practice groups?

1. Because now anytime I use this site and see "Dunnkirk85" I know I can safely ignore everything the post says.
2. Reading comprehension clearly is not your strong suit, but I am going to a clerkship, as stated in my post. Other people will certainly try and leave, I don't know if they will be successful, but I wish them luck. They should at least be competitive for clerkships if they can pull together an application in about a month.
3. I wasn't particularly concerned about getting no-offered, like 99.99% of people, given that I have above average deduction skills, can read, and am generally pleasant to be around. Can't say the same about you, seeing you can't seem to understand why people who got lied to and stiffed 15K are angry. I'd say your odds of being fired after 6 months now are significantly higher at a TTT place like SullCrom that has indicated pretty thoroughly they don't give a damn about you.
4. Completely meaningless, seeing as they will probably put as much work into that as they did into looking into a virtual program for the summer. All the S&C summers know the score, we are on our own, and SullCrom certainly doesn't care.


Edit: Another firm I turned down, Paul Weiss, is guaranteeing full pay. That's the false representation I was talking about you blockhead - that S&C would treat us equally to, or better than their peers, based on their behavior during the last recession, the many questions I asked about how prepared they were for a recession, their boasting of owning their office and growing slowly and conservatively. Instead they chose to stiff us and lie about it.

Blockhead? Really? I am making completely valid points with no personal attacks on you. Based on the past couple of responses I think an auto offer is your best case scenario. Such an entitled mentality. This isn't a charity - and you aren't being stiffed out of 15k - you didn't do any work for it. You're getting 20k to sit at home.

If they didn't "give a damn" they wouldn't guarantee an offer like so many other firms. It's pretty simple.

[nixy]

I understand being pissed off at S&C but I still don't get the allegation that they lied to anyone. Unless any of you asked how they'd handle a global pandemic that shut down states for weeks, there was no way you could get an answer that would apply to this situation. This is completely different from the last recession.

[jackshunger]

I understand being pissed off at S&C but I still don't get the allegation that they lied to anyone. Unless any of you asked how they'd handle a global pandemic that shut down states for weeks, there was no way you could get an answer that would apply to this situation. This is completely different from the last recession.

I don’t know if anyone was lied to per se, but their whole recruitment pitch pretty much revolves around them being old, prestigious, not firing people last recession, and not growing wildly so that they remain sustainable. That’s literally all they talked about at the recruitment events, that and being generalists. Plenty of people would choose them if they were worried about a recession, they have some of the strongest publicly available financials, weren’t they like #2 in PPP or RPL? Them not paying their summers feels pretty shocking. Just a 1L here though, feel free to correct me.

[QContinuum]

their whole recruitment pitch pretty much revolves around them being old, prestigious, not firing people last recession, and not growing wildly so that they remain sustainable. That’s literally all they talked about at the recruitment events, that and being generalists.

I mean, all of this is still true.

Them not paying their summers feels pretty shocking. Just a 1L here though, feel free to correct me.

They're paying their summers $19.2k, plus an additional $10k advance, for literally zero work. They also handed out return offers.

[jackshunger]

their whole recruitment pitch pretty much revolves around them being old, prestigious, not firing people last recession, and not growing wildly so that they remain sustainable. That’s literally all they talked about at the recruitment events, that and being generalists.

I mean, all of this is still true.

Them not paying their summers feels pretty shocking. Just a 1L here though, feel free to correct me.

They're paying their summers $19.2k, plus an additional $10k advance, for literally zero work. They also handed out return offers.

All of the other firms are handing out offers and paying in full though. You don’t do any real work as a summer anyway, so it’s not like being told to go hang out at home and do nothing is a real benefit. Seems Extremely odd, or like a wild miscalculation - my limited knowledge from this thread, My school, and Reddit is that their summers aren’t very happy. I’m not exactly convinced by their supposed financial strength.

[Anonymous User]

I'm anonymous because I'm talking about my experiences that might out me. I have no dog in this fight, but I'm pretty conflicted about how to feel.

Incoming summers, or I guess non-incoming summers, wouldn't know the full depth of this, but I think that there's significant value in not only the connections that you make at the firm over the course of your summer but the experiences that you'll have. My summer experience had its ups and downs. I felt pretty down at some moments during the experience, but overall, I remember it incredibly fondly. I shared some crazy experiences with summers that would make aquagirl look tame and as a result, feel that I've bonded with my fellow SAs and made some friends for life. That experience is worth something. If I had to put a number on it, I'd probably say if my pay was to cut to $30k for the ten weeks as opposed to $37k for the experience that I had, it would still be worth it overall, and I hold onto my money pretty tightly.

That's not even counting that I now know a few associates who I know I get along with and with whom I keep in touch. Some have exited into companies that I would like to work at some day, and I now have a strategic point of contact at those places now.

I know someone is going to chime in about how SAs are just co-workers and associates just see summers as plebs whose work they have to pretend to comment on, and maybe most do. Maybe I'm just a sentimental person or maybe NYC summer experiences are more by-the-book and thus wouldn't create as much of a bond between SAs, but I feel like I've made at least some genuine friendships and connections that I value greatly.

These kinds of connections would never happen with a remote program, and I guess I just feel bad for summers who've had to have their experiences diminished. If I knew ahead of time that that's what I'm losing in addition to some portion of pay, I'd be pretty annoyed. This is especially so when I know that firms on less certain financial footing have offered more. Maybe S&C is harder hit because they don't have as good of a RX practice like PW and DPW. Their bread and butter is very traditional blue-chip public company M&A, capital markets, and general commercial lit. If I had to pick 3 practice areas to that would get hit the hardest in this crisis, those would be it. They'd at least make the top 5.

That's not to say that I'm not blind to how grateful SAs should be to be guaranteed, or I guess "guaranteed," a full-time position with a decent chunk of money.

It can definitely be hard in the moment to look at the big picture, but I don't know. It's S&C! Do you understand how many people would not only forfeit money but pay money to get a full-time offer at S&C? I'd venture to guess that most law students in America would. The brand, inclusive of summer or otherwise, will pay dividends for years to come. That's not even counting the ridiculous money you'll make. Call me a stan for S&C, but I think that there's some upsides here. That full-time offer means something coming from S&C as opposed to a generic V100 that might go under.

Imagine things going another way, you might be trapped in your room all summer, fighting for an unknown number of offers against a bunch of strangers over Zoom with very little work to go around. Do you know how stressful that'd be? I'd pay decent money to dodge that bullet.

[Anonymous User]

I'm anonymous because I'm talking about my experiences that might out me. I have no dog in this fight, but I'm pretty conflicted about how to feel.

Incoming summers, or I guess non-incoming summers, wouldn't know the full depth of this, but I think that there's significant value in not only the connections that you make at the firm over the course of your summer but the experiences that you'll have. My summer experience had its ups and downs. I felt pretty down at some moments during the experience, but overall, I remember it incredibly fondly. I shared some crazy experiences with summers that would make aquagirl look tame and as a result, feel that I've bonded with my fellow SAs and made some friends for life. That experience is worth something. If I had to put a number on it, I'd probably say if my pay was to cut to $30k for the ten weeks as opposed to $37k for the experience that I had, it would still be worth it overall, and I hold onto my money pretty tightly.

That's not even counting that I now know a few associates who I know I get along with and with whom I keep in touch. Some have exited into companies that I would like to work at some day, and I now have a strategic point of contact at those places now.

I know someone is going to chime in about how SAs are just co-workers and associates just see summers as plebs whose work they have to pretend to comment on, and maybe most do. Maybe I'm just a sentimental person or maybe NYC summer experiences are more by-the-book and thus wouldn't create as much of a bond between SAs, but I feel like I've made at least some genuine friendships and connections that I value greatly.

These kinds of connections would never happen with a remote program, and I guess I just feel bad for summers who've had to have their experiences diminished. If I knew ahead of time that that's what I'm losing in addition to some portion of pay, I'd be pretty annoyed. This is especially so when I know that firms on less certain financial footing have offered more. Maybe S&C is harder hit because they don't have as good of a RX practice like PW and DPW. Their bread and butter is very traditional blue-chip public company M&A, capital markets, and general commercial lit. If I had to pick 3 practice areas to that would get hit the hardest in this crisis, those would be it. They'd at least make the top 5.

That's not to say that I'm not blind to how grateful SAs should be to be guaranteed, or I guess "guaranteed," a full-time position with a decent chunk of money.

It can definitely be hard in the moment to look at the big picture, but I don't know. It's S&C! Do you understand how many people would not only forfeit money but pay money to get a full-time offer at S&C? I'd venture to guess that most law students in America would. The brand, inclusive of summer or otherwise, will pay dividends for years to come. That's not even counting the ridiculous money you'll make. Call me a stan for S&C, but I think that there's some upsides here. That full-time offer means something coming from S&C as opposed to a generic V100 that might go under.

Imagine things going another way, you might be trapped in your room all summer, fighting for an unknown number of offers against a bunch of strangers over Zoom with very little work to go around. Do you know how stressful that'd be? I'd pay decent money to dodge that bullet.

I agree with what is said here. Also, if it makes any difference, we were given actual offers on the phone (as opposed to “guaranteed” offers) and offer letters should be coming in via email in about a week. I personally feel pretty happy about this solution, but some redditors are losing their minds.

[Anonymous User]

I'm anonymous because I'm talking about my experiences that might out me. I have no dog in this fight, but I'm pretty conflicted about how to feel.

Incoming summers, or I guess non-incoming summers, wouldn't know the full depth of this, but I think that there's significant value in not only the connections that you make at the firm over the course of your summer but the experiences that you'll have. My summer experience had its ups and downs. I felt pretty down at some moments during the experience, but overall, I remember it incredibly fondly. I shared some crazy experiences with summers that would make aquagirl look tame and as a result, feel that I've bonded with my fellow SAs and made some friends for life. That experience is worth something. If I had to put a number on it, I'd probably say if my pay was to cut to $30k for the ten weeks as opposed to $37k for the experience that I had, it would still be worth it overall, and I hold onto my money pretty tightly.

That's not even counting that I now know a few associates who I know I get along with and with whom I keep in touch. Some have exited into companies that I would like to work at some day, and I now have a strategic point of contact at those places now.

I know someone is going to chime in about how SAs are just co-workers and associates just see summers as plebs whose work they have to pretend to comment on, and maybe most do. Maybe I'm just a sentimental person or maybe NYC summer experiences are more by-the-book and thus wouldn't create as much of a bond between SAs, but I feel like I've made at least some genuine friendships and connections that I value greatly.

These kinds of connections would never happen with a remote program, and I guess I just feel bad for summers who've had to have their experiences diminished. If I knew ahead of time that that's what I'm losing in addition to some portion of pay, I'd be pretty annoyed. This is especially so when I know that firms on less certain financial footing have offered more. Maybe S&C is harder hit because they don't have as good of a RX practice like PW and DPW. Their bread and butter is very traditional blue-chip public company M&A, capital markets, and general commercial lit. If I had to pick 3 practice areas to that would get hit the hardest in this crisis, those would be it. They'd at least make the top 5.

That's not to say that I'm not blind to how grateful SAs should be to be guaranteed, or I guess "guaranteed," a full-time position with a decent chunk of money.

It can definitely be hard in the moment to look at the big picture, but I don't know. It's S&C! Do you understand how many people would not only forfeit money but pay money to get a full-time offer at S&C? I'd venture to guess that most law students in America would. The brand, inclusive of summer or otherwise, will pay dividends for years to come. That's not even counting the ridiculous money you'll make. Call me a stan for S&C, but I think that there's some upsides here. That full-time offer means something coming from S&C as opposed to a generic V100 that might go under.

Imagine things going another way, you might be trapped in your room all summer, fighting for an unknown number of offers against a bunch of strangers over Zoom with very little work to go around. Do you know how stressful that'd be? I'd pay decent money to dodge that bullet.

I really like your post and agree with the value of the summer experience and the lifelong bonds you can make. I know I made lots of great bonds and it would be hard to replicate. However, it seems like a stretch to state that most law students would pay to have the opportunity to work at S&C. Maybe now, but that would apply to most firms in this economy.

[nixy]

Is S&C the kind of place that would want to put forth the idea that their summer program actually is rigorous, and their SAs actually do valuable work, yada yada? I could see how under a certain kind of culture, a firm wouldn't want to pay the full amount for a summer program because it undermines the idea that SAs are Serious Work.

I'm not saying that's good/right/appropriate at all, just curious to what extent law firm culture, and not pure financials, might be influencing how firms approach this (though obviously financials are huge). (Also I don't have any personal experience with S&C or anything, so am totally spitballing b/c I can't sleep.)

[addie1412]

Yeah I wasn't at S&C but my experience as an SA was decently rigorous. Like in the office until 7-9pm working, multiple nights a week. Definitely a good bit of stress. I mean, it felt like a job, not a vacation. If given the choice, I'd choose that experience (which was for sure valuable) over doing nothing all summer, but also getting paid to not have to do it doesn't seem like the worst thing.

[jackshunger]

None of this really makes sense and some of the stuff being said is quite odd on thinking about it more.

A. No one is paying to work at S&C, they recruit like the top 10-25% from T6 schools. Their summers presumably had other offers from firms that aren't cutting pay. They recruit us, not the other way around. Just as a personal example, they didn't pay to have limos take us from campus to their firm reception out of some idea students owe them anything.

B. By all accounts above, you were also told you were getting paid for 8 weeks on the phone, and that isn't true. Why would them guaranteeing you an offer mean anything special? You pretty much already had that offer prior to them randomly canceling the program. S&C offered 100% of their summers last year, so did pretty much all of their competitors. None of their competitors are canceling their programs, so it seems pretty unlikely there was going to be some battle royale for spots at the firm this summer (we actually know this can't be true because they halved pay and gave everyone an offer - the cost of giving 100 people a sure salary must be magnitudes larger than paying for an extra 3 weeks per summer). Most of their competitors are guaranteeing full pay and offers. S&C sticks out like a sore thumb with this cost-cutting with very little benefit, which is why I asked about their financials.

C. Like the only benefit being argued here is that they don't have to work. But summer programs aren't exactly known for being rigorous anyway, and virtual programs seem even less rigorous than normal - hence why all their competitors are guaranteeing pay and offers. A fair number of their summers are probably going to work anyway to either make up lost income or get experience, so they're probably working more than their friends for less money.

[rk42]

None of this really makes sense and some of the stuff being said is quite odd on thinking about it more.

A. No one is paying to work at S&C, they recruit like the top 10-25% from T6 schools. Their summers presumably had other offers from firms that aren't cutting pay. They recruit us, not the other way around. Just as a personal example, they didn't pay to have limos take us from campus to their firm reception out of some idea students owe them anything.

B. By all accounts above, you were also told you were getting paid for 8 weeks on the phone, and that isn't true. Why would them guaranteeing you an offer mean anything special? You pretty much already had that offer prior to them randomly canceling the program. S&C offered 100% of their summers last year, so did pretty much all of their competitors. None of their competitors are canceling their programs, so it seems pretty unlikely there was going to be some battle royale for spots at the firm this summer (we actually know this can't be true because they halved pay and gave everyone an offer - the cost of giving 100 people a sure salary must be magnitudes larger than paying for an extra 3 weeks per summer). Most of their competitors are guaranteeing full pay and offers. S&C sticks out like a sore thumb with this cost-cutting with very little benefit, which is why I asked about their financials.

C. Like the only benefit being argued here is that they don't have to work. But summer programs aren't exactly known for being rigorous anyway, and virtual programs seem even less rigorous than normal - hence why all their competitors are guaranteeing pay and offers. A fair number of their summers are probably going to work anyway to either make up lost income or get experience, so they're probably working more than their friends for less money.

This. 7 of the V10s have guaranteed full pay (I'm assuming Cravath will) and most have guaranteed offers too. Some like Cravath, Gibson Dunn and Paul, Weiss have already decided to cut their programs to 4-6 weeks, in which case those summers will also stay home and do nothing, but still get paid more than S&C. Getting 20k and a job offer is no joke, but if someone took a job offer at S&C over its peers they got screwed. I think its pretty reasonable to be a little upset about that.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is doing a 2 week remote summer in June. Paying for the full summer and guaranteeing 2021 offers.

I think the last two pieces will be common among the top firms but I haven’t seen a 2-week summer from anyone else yet.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is doing a 2 week remote summer in June. Paying for the full summer and guaranteeing 2021 offers.

I think the last two pieces will be common among the top firms but I haven’t seen a 2-week summer from anyone else yet.

S&C out here looking like cheap clowns compared to the rest of the V20

[cavalier1138]

Kirkland is doing a 2 week remote summer in June. Paying for the full summer and guaranteeing 2021 offers.

I think the last two pieces will be common among the top firms but I haven’t seen a 2-week summer from anyone else yet.

S&C out here looking like cheap clowns compared to the rest of the V20

I think everyone understands your position here. It may not be all that productive to respond to each new announcement regarding summer programs with something about how bad S&C is.

[Anonymous User]

still mum from Weil..

[Anonymous User]

Latham DC (and maybe other offices) goes full digital for eight weeks but they're paying for ten

[LSATWiz.com]

None of this really makes sense and some of the stuff being said is quite odd on thinking about it more.

A. No one is paying to work at S&C, they recruit like the top 10-25% from T6 schools. Their summers presumably had other offers from firms that aren't cutting pay. They recruit us, not the other way around. Just as a personal example, they didn't pay to have limos take us from campus to their firm reception out of some idea students owe them anything.

B. By all accounts above, you were also told you were getting paid for 8 weeks on the phone, and that isn't true. Why would them guaranteeing you an offer mean anything special? You pretty much already had that offer prior to them randomly canceling the program. S&C offered 100% of their summers last year, so did pretty much all of their competitors. None of their competitors are canceling their programs, so it seems pretty unlikely there was going to be some battle royale for spots at the firm this summer (we actually know this can't be true because they halved pay and gave everyone an offer - the cost of giving 100 people a sure salary must be magnitudes larger than paying for an extra 3 weeks per summer). Most of their competitors are guaranteeing full pay and offers. S&C sticks out like a sore thumb with this cost-cutting with very little benefit, which is why I asked about their financials.

C. Like the only benefit being argued here is that they don't have to work. But summer programs aren't exactly known for being rigorous anyway, and virtual programs seem even less rigorous than normal - hence why all their competitors are guaranteeing pay and offers. A fair number of their summers are probably going to work anyway to either make up lost income or get experience, so they're probably working more than their friends for less money.

A. Fair

B. Two things:

(1) Last year is not a proxy for this year. No year is. We've literally shut down the entire economy for almost three months. You're comparing the worst economic year of our lifetime to one of the most profitable periods in US history. The only reason it's not much worse than 2008 is it does not seem to be related to a foundational problem in our economy. It's unlikely you would have had 100% offers so that argument is moot. The fact they cut your summer program suggests not everyone would have been offered. I mean, isn't canceling the entire program a bolder action than no offering x number of summer associates? Would they have canceled the program if there was any chance they'd offer 100%? It's possible you would have had 50% of your class no offered. If we assume there would have been y chance you'd be no-offered and assume those job offers are literally guaranteed, there is financial value in being guaranteed an offer that you are not accounting for. Depending on what the rate of no-offers would have been, it's possible that guarantee is worth more than $37,000 or whatever.

(2) Summer programs are expensive and like you said, largely a waste of money. Many large firms are mismanaged. If S&C hasn't decreased pay and furloughed employees, isn't it preferable to join a firm that would choose to cancel an elaborate summer camp over furloughing or cutting the salaries of its employees?

C. $37,500 won't make or break your career. It's possible you may work more hours because of this, but given 100% was not going to be offered, you would have felt stressed for much of the summer as you're human. Now you get to work without being overly concerned about your future, which is certainly preferable.

[wwwcol]

What are remote firms going to give summers to keep them busy for weeks? Can’t imagine 4-5 weeks of work, much less 8ish

[The Lsat Airbender]

What are remote firms going to give summers to keep them busy for weeks? Can’t imagine 4-5 weeks of work, much less 8ish

they have to form league of legends teams

[Pennoyer v. Meh]

What are remote firms going to give summers to keep them busy for weeks? Can’t imagine 4-5 weeks of work, much less 8ish

Were summers really ever kept busy for 8 hours normally? I imagine it'll be research memos, plus the occasional zoom meeting with attorneys in practice groups, and then the summers won't actually work anywhere close to a full day--really only needing to be "available" when something concretely is scheduled, so long as they turn things in on time?