UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Transfer student from T20 (top 10-20%)
No LR
URM/female: yes
5+ years of irrelevant but interesting work experience
TX > LA > NY
Litigation


1. Debevoise & Plimpton (New York, NY) 63
2. Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz (New York, NY) 42
3. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison LLP (New York, NY) 42
4. Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (New York, NY) 38
5. Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York, NY) 42
6. Davis Polk & Wardwell (New York, NY) 42
7. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton (New York, NY) 42
8. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York, NY) 42
9. Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 13
11. Williams & Connolly LLP (Washington, DC) 42
12. Irell & Manella L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 27
13. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
14. Vinson & Elkins LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
15. Baker Botts LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
16. susman godfrey llp (Houston, TX) 19 (shared)
17. Jones Day (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
18. norton rose fulbright llp (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
19. Latham & Watkins (Houston, TX) 22
20. Ahmad, Zavitsanos & Anaipakos P.C. (Houston, TX) 21
21. schiff hardin llp (Dallas, TX) 84 (shared)
22. Dechert LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
23. sidley austin llp (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
24. jackson walker llp (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
25. mckool smith (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
26. Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP (Austin, TX) 2
27. Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
28. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (Austin, TX) 12 (shared)
29. White & Case LLP (New York, NY) 21
30. proskauer rose llp (New York, NY) 21
31. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
32. cooley llp (Los Angeles, CA) 42 (shared)
33. Morrison & Foerster L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
34. Ropes & Gray LLP (New York, NY) 42 (shared)
35. Shearman & Sterling LLP (New York, NY) 21

[Lurk3r]

K&E Houston is transactional only...

[skers]

Can you please put all your firms in a hat a give us a different bidlist?

But really, as alpha as Wachtell #2 is, you can move all your selective firms way down and need to move some of your less selective firms w/ shared offices and not very many bid slots way up.

[Emma.]

Irrespective of whether you have a realistic shot at WLRK (unlikely) you can bid them dead last and still get a screener.

[Anonymous User]

For DC - 179+ will probably be safe. Most of those firms (Covington and W&C) really only hire LR.
For c/o 2015 and 2016 if you look at the CB list it's pretty brutal out there

[Anonymous User]

Is it better to put shared TX/LA offices first? How low can I put the large class NY firms?

[Anonymous User]

Is it irresponsible to go on a low-key out of town trip August 17-20 (the weekend between the two OCI weeks)?

[Anonymous User]

Posting for a friend here.

Top 10% or top 15% at a T20. Chicago Transfer. Only wants Chicago. Low ties.

What should they be bidding?

[Teddy Martin Bear]

Gibson can go a lot lower, but it's always hard to tell what to go w/ at number 1. Wouldn't be surprised if you missed Fried Frank where it's at currently.

I don't know why people are putting Cravath as high as they are, but maybe it should be generally higher since you're all doing it. Also, Cravath kind of sucks as a place to work.

I'm really interested in Cravath. Could you tell me why you say it sucks as a place to work?

[2014]

Is it better to put shared TX/LA offices first? How low can I put the large class NY firms?

*Usually* Weil and Kirkland probably need bid top 5, Skadden, DPW, Cleary, Latham and Paul Weiss can go from like 7-11, Deb and Simpson 14-15ish, SullCrom down to like 16-17, and Cravath 18-19.

[Emma.]

Gibson can go a lot lower, but it's always hard to tell what to go w/ at number 1. Wouldn't be surprised if you missed Fried Frank where it's at currently.

I don't know why people are putting Cravath as high as they are, but maybe it should be generally higher since you're all doing it. Also, Cravath kind of sucks as a place to work.

I'm really interested in Cravath. Could you tell me why you say it sucks as a place to work?

WLRK hours for Cravath-scale pay.

[UofCforme]

K&E Houston is transactional only...

This is correct.

[beepboopbeep]

2014's estimates sound right to me too. Just remember to bump stuff up a bit if you're more interested in it relative to other bids. Fwiw I missed sullcrom at 16 last year.

[beepboopbeep]

Posting for a friend here.

Top 10% or top 15% at a T20. Chicago Transfer. Only wants Chicago. Low ties.

What should they be bidding?

New york

...in all seriousness, everything I've heard points to transfer performance being pretty variable, so have some safeties. I do imagine transferring to Chicago is a pretty good ties answer. Other than that, just the standard Chi/NY split bids. If anyone did this in past years (transfer+chi or bust) please correct me if I'm way off.

[Anonymous User]

Posting for a friend here.

Top 10% or top 15% at a T20. Chicago Transfer. Only wants Chicago. Low ties.

What should they be bidding?

New york

...in all seriousness, everything I've heard points to transfer performance being pretty variable, so have some safeties. I do imagine transferring to Chicago is a pretty good ties answer. Other than that, just the standard Chi/NY split bids. If anyone did this in past years (transfer+chi or bust) please correct me if I'm way off.

Are there safeties in Chicago, (like chapman/winston/Katten(yeah I know fuck Winston) types?)

[skers]

No, but seriously fuck Winston.

[WheninLaw]

Transfer student from T20 (top 10-20%)
No LR
URM/female: yes
5+ years of irrelevant but interesting work experience
TX > LA > NY
Litigation


1. Debevoise & Plimpton (New York, NY) 63
2. Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz (New York, NY) 42
3. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison LLP (New York, NY) 42
4. Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (New York, NY) 38
5. Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York, NY) 42
6. Davis Polk & Wardwell (New York, NY) 42
7. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton (New York, NY) 42
8. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York, NY) 42
9. Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 13
11. Williams & Connolly LLP (Washington, DC) 42
12. Irell & Manella L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 27
13. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
14. Vinson & Elkins LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
15. Baker Botts LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
16. Susman Godfrey LLP (Houston, TX) 19 (shared)
17. Jones Day (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
18. Norton Rose Fulbright LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
19. Latham & Watkins (Houston, TX) 22
20. Ahmad, Zavitsanos & Anaipakos P.C. (Houston, TX) 21
21. Schiff Hardin LLP (Dallas, TX) 84 (shared)
22. Dechert LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
23. Sidley Austin LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
24. Jackson Walker LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
25. McKool Smith (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
26. Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP (Austin, TX) 2
27. Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
28. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (Austin, TX) 12 (shared)
29. White & Case LLP (New York, NY) 21
30. Proskauer Rose LLP (New York, NY) 21
31. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
32. Cooley LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 42 (shared)
33. Morrison & Foerster L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
34. Ropes & Gray LLP (New York, NY) 42 (shared)
35. Shearman & Sterling LLP (New York, NY) 21

This bid list needs some work. You have a ton of firms up high that you could bid last and still get a screener (WLRK, Irell, Munger, W&C in some years, etc.) and a bunch you'll never get that low (WSGR, Mofo, etc.).

I assume you'll do fine/great in TX, but you have a lot of reaches in there that probably aren't happening (would be unlikely even with top 15% w/o transfer status).

[Anonymous User]

sorry im still a bit confused w/r/t bidding multiple offices. suppose, for example, i want to bid for jones day. all of their california offices have the little triangle exclamation thing, and stay "5 Offices:" and then go on to list their CA offices. so if i'm interested in irvine and menlo park, i'd just bid one of them and tell them during the interview i'm also interested in the other? or do i actually submit bids for both but only do 1 interview? and if i'm interested also in jones day houston, which lists 9 different offices, i'd place a second bid for them and do an additional interview?

my understanding is that each office requires a separate bid but one interview. how should this change our bidding strategy? if i'm interested in a really remote office and a very popular new york office, can i just bid both really low so i just secure my secondary market bid?

also someone mentioned earlier that we should be hesitant to bid for more than one K&E office. is that specific advice for K&E or across the board? why?

thanks everyone for the help!

[DoveBodyWash]

Posting for a friend here.

Top 10% or top 15% at a T20. Chicago Transfer. Only wants Chicago. Low ties.

What should they be bidding?

New york

...in all seriousness, everything I've heard points to transfer performance being pretty variable, so have some safeties. I do imagine transferring to Chicago is a pretty good ties answer. Other than that, just the standard Chi/NY split bids. If anyone did this in past years (transfer+chi or bust) please correct me if I'm way off.

Are there safeties in Chicago, (like chapman/winston/Katten(yeah I know fuck Winston) types?)

I'm a 3L that transferred with similar stats from T20. Most of us who wanted Chicago got it. We did very well with Kirkland and Mayer brown. I think only one of us had offer with Sidley. I would say the experience for my transfer class as a whole was pretty bimodal. Half of us did really well, the other half struggled. The litigation kids (minus IP) struggled much more than the corporate kids

ETA. None of us got Latham or Skadden Chicago offers fwiw. Other than that we had offers from all the other major Chicago firms.

[DoveBodyWash]

Transfer student from T20 (top 10-20%)
No LR
URM/female: yes
5+ years of irrelevant but interesting work experience
TX > LA > NY
Litigation


1. Debevoise & Plimpton (New York, NY) 63
2. Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz (New York, NY) 42
3. Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison LLP (New York, NY) 42
4. Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (New York, NY) 38
5. Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (New York, NY) 42
6. Davis Polk & Wardwell (New York, NY) 42
7. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton (New York, NY) 42
8. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York, NY) 42
9. Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
10. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 13
11. Williams & Connolly LLP (Washington, DC) 42
12. Irell & Manella L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 27
13. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21
14. Vinson & Elkins LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
15. Baker Botts LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
16. Susman Godfrey LLP (Houston, TX) 19 (shared)
17. Jones Day (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
18. Norton Rose Fulbright LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
19. Latham & Watkins (Houston, TX) 22
20. Ahmad, Zavitsanos & Anaipakos P.C. (Houston, TX) 21
21. Schiff Hardin LLP (Dallas, TX) 84 (shared)
22. Dechert LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
23. Sidley Austin LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
24. Jackson Walker LLP (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
25. McKool Smith (Austin, TX) 21 (shared)
26. Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP (Austin, TX) 2
27. Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Houston, TX) 21 (shared)
28. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (Austin, TX) 12 (shared)
29. White & Case LLP (New York, NY) 21
30. Proskauer Rose LLP (New York, NY) 21
31. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
32. Cooley LLP (Los Angeles, CA) 42 (shared)
33. Morrison & Foerster L.L.P. (Los Angeles, CA) 21 (shared)
34. Ropes & Gray LLP (New York, NY) 42 (shared)
35. Shearman & Sterling LLP (New York, NY) 21

This needs serious work. PM me. (I'm a 3L that transferred and split Chicago and NY)

[eazye]

First shot at a bid list. This may be entirely too aggressive (way too many markets, I know), but ties/story for everywhere I'm bidding. Figure I'll most likely end up nyc lit but swinging for the fences with the boutiques (unique story, etc., hoping that can push me a little but still understand they're probably no-gos). Thanks in advance for any and all help! All offices are nyc unless otherwise noted.

K-JD (interesting resume + softs though), will interview well, not diverse or female. low 179s.

1 Gibson (LA) 13
2. K&E (Chi)
3. Mofo (SF)
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Fried Frank
7. Simpson Thatcher
8. Skadden
9. Cleary
10. Weil
11. SullCrom
12. Cravath
13. Proskauer
14. Debevoise
15. Latham (LA)
16. O’Melveney (LA)
17. WilmerHale
18.White & Case
19. Shearman
20. Irell (LA)
21. Susman (Seattle)
22. Munger (LA)
23. Keker (SF)
24. Williams and Connolly (DC)
25. Wachtell
25. Perkins Coie (Seattle)

[Anonymous User]

Just curious -- how selective are DC firms for reals? W&C, Covington, Hogan, WilmerHale DC??
Female/URM. ~178. No specific ties w/ DC but hoping for regulatory work.
Does anyone have any experience w/ them?

The only person in my class (2015) to go to Williams and Connolly is an AA guy who graduated without honors or LR. If you're AA, I would bid aggressively in DC. I realize this is anecdotal but with the tiny number of URM's in the class (especially AA's), anecdotes are really the only thing to work with.

[skers]

First shot at a bid list. This may be entirely too aggressive (way too many markets, I know), but ties/story for everywhere I'm bidding. Figure I'll most likely end up nyc lit but swinging for the fences with the boutiques (unique story, etc., hoping that can push me a little but still understand they're probably no-gos). Thanks in advance for any and all help! All offices are nyc unless otherwise noted.

K-JD (interesting resume + softs though), will interview well, not diverse or female. low 179s.

1 Gibson (LA) 13
2. K&E (Chi)
3. Mofo (SF)
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Fried Frank
7. Simpson Thatcher
8. Skadden
9. Cleary
10. Weil
11. SullCrom
12. Cravath
13. Proskauer
14. Debevoise
15. Latham (LA)
16. O’Melveney (LA)
17. WilmerHale
18.White & Case
19. Shearman
20. Irell (LA)
21. Susman (Seattle)
22. Munger (LA)
23. Keker (SF)
24. Williams and Connolly (DC)
25. Wachtell
25. Perkins Coie (Seattle)

1. YEah, you're a little all over the place, but I think you know that. Honestly, w/ a 179 you'll almost definitely get one of dpw, PW, deb, S&C, ect. unless you're a truly unforgivable person. 2. I'd probably put some combo of white and case/proskauer or shearman a little higher in your top 10 esp since you can still get Cravath way lower and some of the other NY firms (PW/STB) lower and still get them. 3. What's with your class' Wachtell boner?

[Anonymous User]

Just curious -- how selective are DC firms for reals? W&C, Covington, Hogan, WilmerHale DC??
Female/URM. ~178. No specific ties w/ DC but hoping for regulatory work.
Does anyone have any experience w/ them?

The only person in my class (2015) to go to Williams and Connolly is an AA guy who graduated without honors or LR. If you're AA, I would bid aggressively in DC. I realize this is anecdotal but with the tiny number of URM's in the class (especially AA's), anecdotes are really the only thing to work with.

Yes, DC market is pretty much reserved for ultra special URM or top of the class. I'd say for Covington and W&C, you'll need to have at least a solid 180 with LR or Legal Forum. For the others, a 179 with some other positive factor.

[Anonymous User]

Are there safeties in Chicago, (like chapman/winston/Katten(yeah I know fuck Winston) types?)

Thinking about "safeties" isn't a productive way to think about the OCI process in general, since firms are concerned about more than your grades. But for Chicago it's especially dangerous. This has been discussed ITT before so I'm not sure if it's just wishful thinking on your part, but Chicago firm class sizes drop off precipitously after the biggest five to six firms. There will be a very large number of people competing for what are likely only a handful of spots at firms like Katten and Chapman.