DF Thread Forum

[bk1]

I'm having bad flashbacks about the last time TLS discussed whether luck substantially affected whether many people got biglaw.

Which way do you come down.

Of course it does. The difference between 0 and 1 offers is huge and the reasons for getting 1 offer rather than 0 isn't substantially different from the reasons that someone gets 2 offers rather than 1. I'd call that luck having a significant impact, but someone's (OneMoreLawHopeful?) strong sense of libertarianism just couldn't handle that as being the truth.

[Mal Reynolds]

I'm having bad flashbacks about the last time TLS discussed whether luck substantially affected whether many people got biglaw.

Which way do you come down.

Of course it does. The difference between 0 and 1 offers is huge and the reasons for getting 1 offer rather than 0 isn't substantially different from the reasons that someone gets 2 offers rather than 1. I'd call that luck having a significant impact, but someone's (OneMoreLawHopeful?) strong sense of libertarianism just couldn't handle that as being the truth.

Nah. Interviewers can sense your passion for the law. No offers and 1 offers have that to distinguish them.

[B.B. Homemaker]

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[B.B. Homemaker]

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[Anonymous User]

Got 11/13 offer ratio in NY, 7/8 in my home regional market, but only 6 CBs and 3 offers in DC, WHAT AM I DOING WRONG I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Come on bro you gotta try harder than that. Maybe this is BB.

BB is the worst at stupid jokes

can you shut the fuck up. k. acutally wasn't me and you know that, god

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

I'm having bad flashbacks about the last time TLS discussed whether luck substantially affected whether many people got biglaw.

Which way do you come down.

Of course it does. The difference between 0 and 1 offers is huge and the reasons for getting 1 offer rather than 0 isn't substantially different from the reasons that someone gets 2 offers rather than 1. I'd call that luck having a significant impact, but someone's (OneMoreLawHopeful?) strong sense of libertarianism just couldn't handle that as being the truth.

This is a gross misstatement of my position. I always stated that luck plays *some* roll. However, because (1) people who are bad at interviewing often don't know it, and (2) the only info we have about interviewing skills are potentially biased self reports, then it's likely that the actual impact of "luck" is overstated on TLS.

The kids who chose to accept an offer with Dewey in fall 2010 were screwed by bad luck and circumstances completely beyond their control. But the kid posting "I'm top 10% at NYU, had 45 screeners and no callbacks," needs to hear that CSO is probably lying to him when they say he's an "above average interviewer."

[Mal Reynolds]

I'm having bad flashbacks about the last time TLS discussed whether luck substantially affected whether many people got biglaw.

Which way do you come down.

Of course it does. The difference between 0 and 1 offers is huge and the reasons for getting 1 offer rather than 0 isn't substantially different from the reasons that someone gets 2 offers rather than 1. I'd call that luck having a significant impact, but someone's (OneMoreLawHopeful?) strong sense of libertarianism just couldn't handle that as being the truth.

This is a gross misstatement of my position. I always stated that luck plays *some* roll. However, because (1) people who are bad at interviewing often don't know it, and (2) the only info we have about interviewing skills are potentially biased self reports, then it's likely that the actual impact of "luck" is overstated on TLS.

The kids who chose to accept an offer with Dewey in fall 2010 were screwed by bad luck and circumstances completely beyond their control. But the kid posting "I'm top 10% at NYU, had 45 screeners and no callbacks," needs to hear that CSO is probably lying to him when they say he's an "above average interviewer."

Can you mods change his name to confirmation bias or something.

[hoos89]

I'm having bad flashbacks about the last time TLS discussed whether luck substantially affected whether many people got biglaw.

Which way do you come down.

Of course it does. The difference between 0 and 1 offers is huge and the reasons for getting 1 offer rather than 0 isn't substantially different from the reasons that someone gets 2 offers rather than 1. I'd call that luck having a significant impact, but someone's (OneMoreLawHopeful?) strong sense of libertarianism just couldn't handle that as being the truth.

This is a gross misstatement of my position. I always stated that luck plays *some* roll. However, because (1) people who are bad at interviewing often don't know it, and (2) the only info we have about interviewing skills are potentially biased self reports, then it's likely that the actual impact of "luck" is overstated on TLS.

The kids who chose to accept an offer with Dewey in fall 2010 were screwed by bad luck and circumstances completely beyond their control. But the kid posting "I'm top 10% at NYU, had 45 screeners and no callbacks," needs to hear that CSO is probably lying to him when they say he's an "above average interviewer."

You're a big fan of the straw man. Obviously top 10% at NYU with no callbacks is a bad interviewer, but can we say for certain that the guy who got 5 callbacks and one offer is really any "better" than the guy who got the same number of callbacks but didn't get an offer?

[B.B. Homemaker]

I'm 100% sure that my offer was pure dumb luck

You still won, so luck or not, you've won. Enjoy.

[FKASunny]

Jeez BB, I thought you'd get that I was just trying to get closer with Mal. I'm like this close to turning him.


Also, after watching friends who I'm certain are just as good, if not better, at interviewing as I am get completely shut out, it's hard not to think that a lot of this process just comes down to luck.

ETA: I wrote this before what you posted above

[B.B. Homemaker]

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[Mal Reynolds]

been real. ciao, tls.

The histrionics seem weird unless you're drunk.

[rickgrimes69]

been real. ciao, tls.

aw bby don't be like that

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

You're a big fan of the straw man. Obviously top 10% at NYU with no callbacks is a bad interviewer, but can we say for certain that the guy who got 5 callbacks and one offer is really any "better" than the guy who got the same number of callbacks but didn't get an offer?

I like how you accuse me of using a straw man, but then immediately put together one of your own. No where did I say that everyone with an offer is always better. The difference between two marginal candidates is probably luck, and I've never claimed otherwise.

It's like you guys don't even read what I write.

[El Pollito]

wtf happened in here

[UnamSanctam]

wtf happened in here

People get really bitchy when it comes to grades and jobs. TLS gonna TLS.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

There is definitely luck with receiving offers

The firm that I'm going to my CB was a dream team of people who clicked with personality, and if one or two of those people had been switched it could easily have gone the other way

[Liquox]

what's the point of getting bitchy about jobs? if you don't have one, too bad. no amount of whining about luck is going to fix that.

the trouble with letting fools believe they struck out because of bad luck is that they don't do much to improve themselves afterwards. your personality sucks; either DF or someone else can tell you that. this above median/below median stuff means nothing compared to whether or not you come off as "precious" or some other atrocious piece of crap. for those of you who struck out from a t10, either you suck at bidding or you need an attitude adjustment.

anecdotally, my friend at T6 tells me of the 10 people who struck out at her OCI last year, 5 were anywhere from top 20% to law review. three guys bid DC or smaller markets only, and the rest were entitled fucks. apparently one of these people went 0/6or7 callbacks in NY.

[Mal Reynolds]

what's the point of getting bitchy about jobs? if you don't have one, too bad. no amount of whining about luck is going to fix that.

the trouble with letting fools believe they struck out because of bad luck is that they don't do much to improve themselves afterwards. your personality sucks; either DF or someone else can tell you that. this above median/below median stuff means nothing compared to whether or not you come off as "precious" or some other atrocious piece of crap. for those of you who struck out from a t10, either you suck at bidding or you need an attitude adjustment.

anecdotally, my friend at T6 tells me of the 10 people who struck out at her OCI last year, 5 were anywhere from top 20% to law review. three guys bid DC or smaller markets only, and the rest were entitled fucks. apparently one of these people went 0/6or7 callbacks in NY.

[Cobretti]

what's the point of getting bitchy about jobs? if you don't have one, too bad. no amount of whining about luck is going to fix that.

the trouble with letting fools believe they struck out because of bad luck is that they don't do much to improve themselves afterwards. your personality sucks; either DF or someone else can tell you that. this above median/below median stuff means nothing compared to whether or not you come off as "precious" or some other atrocious piece of crap. for those of you who struck out from a t10, either you suck at bidding or you need an attitude adjustment.

anecdotally, my friend at T6 tells me of the 10 people who struck out at her OCI last year, 5 were anywhere from top 20% to law review. three guys bid DC or smaller markets only, and the rest were entitled fucks. apparently one of these people went 0/6or7 callbacks in NY.

I support this, but not enough to not hide behind anon

Outed for anon abuse.

[notgreat]

what's the point of getting bitchy about jobs? if you don't have one, too bad. no amount of whining about luck is going to fix that.

the trouble with letting fools believe they struck out because of bad luck is that they don't do much to improve themselves afterwards. your personality sucks; either DF or someone else can tell you that. this above median/below median stuff means nothing compared to whether or not you come off as "precious" or some other atrocious piece of crap. for those of you who struck out from a t10, either you suck at bidding or you need an attitude adjustment.

anecdotally, my friend at T6 tells me of the 10 people who struck out at her OCI last year, 5 were anywhere from top 20% to law review. three guys bid DC or smaller markets only, and the rest were entitled fucks. apparently one of these people went 0/6or7 callbacks in NY.

I support this, but not enough to not hide behind anon

LOL. What a little bitch.

[UnamSanctam]

I struck out from a T10 because I'm a retard who can't issue spot.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I struck out from a T10 because I'm a retard who can't issue spot.

Careful with this kind of thing. For most exams the difference between a B and A- can be quite small. Professors admit that there's a heavy dose of subjectivity in grading and that on a different day, certain exams could be given different grades. 95% of students are spotting probably somewhere between a third and a half of the potential issues in an exam anyway.

Maybe if someone has a 3.0 you can be a bit more confident that they truly don't have the aptitude for it. But the right skew of the grading curve means it's a lot easier to determine whether someone at the high end is good at it than to determine whether someone at the bottom end isn't.

[sideroxylon]

I struck out from a T10 because I'm a retard who can't issue spot.

Careful with this kind of thing. For most exams the difference between a B and A- can be quite small. Professors admit that there's a heavy dose of subjectivity in grading and that on a different day, certain exams could be given different grades. 95% of students are spotting probably somewhere between a third and a half of the potential issues in an exam anyway.

Maybe if someone has a 3.0 you can be a bit more confident that they truly don't have the aptitude for it. But the right skew of the grading curve means it's a lot easier to determine whether someone at the high end is good at it than to determine whether someone at the bottom end isn't.

let the man say something self-effacing

[Anonymous User]

PhD
Top 14
3.5 GPA
All Chicago firms
20 rejections from screeners
1 Callback from a Litigation Boutique - Rejected
2 Callbacks from V50 firms - Waiting to hear back (2 weeks and 3 weeks)

The dread is starting to kick in. I will go anywhere and do anything (litigation or corporate) for a 10 week summer at a big firm.

Please help.