HLS EIP 2014 Forum

[Anonymous User]

You can probably cut Wilmer, A&P, and Covington based on grades to name a few that stand out.

What are your interests? Corporate? Lit? Regulatory? Specific issue areas? That will help us help you find firms of interest

And cut Williams & Connolly.

As for firms you can add in DC, I would consider adding King and Spalding, Baker Botts, Crowell, K&L Gates, Mayer Brown, McDermott, Miller Chevalier, and Wiley Rein. I would maybe cut Paul Hastings (only 20/48 people who bid them got screeners and nobody at HLS got an offer), Cooley (only 7/18 who bid them got interviews and nobody got an offer), Epstein (I don't even think they were at EIP last year), and Alston and Bird (only 2-3 total summers usually and nobody from HLS got an offer last year).

[Anonymous User]

You can probably cut Wilmer, A&P, and Covington based on grades to name a few that stand out.

What are your interests? Corporate? Lit? Regulatory? Specific issue areas? That will help us help you find firms of interest

And cut Williams & Connolly.

As for firms you can add in DC, I would consider adding King and Spalding, Baker Botts, Crowell, K&L Gates, Mayer Brown, McDermott, Miller Chevalier, and Wiley Rein. I would maybe cut Paul Hastings (only 20/48 people who bid them got screeners and nobody at HLS got an offer), Cooley (only 7/18 who bid them got interviews and nobody got an offer), Epstein (I don't even think they were at EIP last year), and Alston and Bird (only 2-3 total summers usually and nobody from HLS got an offer last year).

Original anon who posted this question here. Interest areas are regulatory, health, employment, lit, and corporate. I would obviously be narrowing down into one or two of these at an actual firm.

Also, thank you so much for the suggestions on DC firms to add!

[Anonymous User]

Swung by TLS tonight for the first time in a while. I'm an HLS alum working in the SF/SV BigLaw market as a midlevel litigation associate. I've been at a couple different firms and have been through the Bay Area interview process at various points (2L, post-clerkship, lateral, etc.). If anyone wants to talk SF/SV, feel free to post your questions and I'll do my best to weigh in.

[wwwcol]

Just noticed that symplicity now has expected number of interview slots for each firm, FYI for those who were also interested.

[Anonymous User]

Swung by TLS tonight for the first time in a while. I'm an HLS alum working in the SF/SV BigLaw market as a midlevel litigation associate. I've been at a couple different firms and have been through the Bay Area interview process at various points (2L, post-clerkship, lateral, etc.). If anyone wants to talk SF/SV, feel free to post your questions and I'll do my best to weigh in.

No doubt you will be an incredible resource to those interested in the SF/SV market. I'm not, but I am interested in several SF/SV firms elsewhere so I'm curious what your sense is about whether the culture and the work transfers.

I'm specifically interested in Cooley Boston and Orrick MoFo DC if you want to get super specific. Thanks,

[Anonymous User]

Swung by TLS tonight for the first time in a while. I'm an HLS alum working in the SF/SV BigLaw market as a midlevel litigation associate. I've been at a couple different firms and have been through the Bay Area interview process at various points (2L, post-clerkship, lateral, etc.). If anyone wants to talk SF/SV, feel free to post your questions and I'll do my best to weigh in.

Thoughts on MTO (SF) and Keker & Van Nest for litigation?

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, I would greatly appreciate feedback on the following bidlist.

Grades: 3H, 1DS, 6P (2H were in LRW and the DS was in a seminar)
Resume: 1L SA, 2 years interesting but non-prestigious legal WE, officer positions on student orgs
Interview Skills: Decent to strong (from what I've been told)
Other: I have zero ties to DC aside from attending a few conferences there during high school and college. My reason for wanting to be there is I'm interested in a niche field that only DC offices practice. I split 1L summer between a firm and interning in NYC. I anticipate having an offer I would take over most safety firms before EIP.

Reaches

Cravath NY
S&C NY
Arnold & Porter DC
Cleary DC
Covington DC
Gibson Dunn DC
hogan lovells DC
Kirkland & Ellis DC
Sidley DC
Skadden DC
Wilmer Hale DC

Targets

Cleary NY
Covington NY
DPW NY
Debevoise NY
Gibson Dunn NY
Kirkland & Ellis NY
Paul Weiss NY
Ropes & Gray NY
STB NY
Skadden NY
Weil Gotschal NY
Wilmer Hale NY
Crowell DC
Hughes Hubbard DC
Jones Day DC
King & Spalding DC
Mayer Brown DC
Steptoe DC
Wiley Rein DC
White & Case DC

Safeties

Freshfields NY
Schulte Roth NY
Shearman NY
Wilkie Farr NY


Thanks!

[CicerBRo]

Hi all, I would greatly appreciate feedback on the following bidlist.

Grades: 3H, 1DS, 6P (2H were in LRW and the DS was in a seminar)
Resume: 1L SA, 2 years interesting but non-prestigious legal WE, officer positions on student orgs
Interview Skills: Decent to strong (from what I've been told)
Other: I have zero ties to DC aside from attending a few conferences there during high school and college. My reason for wanting to be there is I'm interested in a niche field that only DC offices practice. I split 1L summer between a firm and interning in NYC. I anticipate having an offer I would take over most safety firms before EIP.

Reaches

Cravath NY
S&C NY
Arnold & Porter DC
Cleary DC
Covington DC
Gibson Dunn DC
Hogan Lovells DC
Kirkland & Ellis DC
Sidley DC
Skadden DC
Wilmer Hale DC

Targets

Cleary NY
Covington NY
DPW NY
Debevoise NY
Gibson Dunn NY
Kirkland & Ellis NY
Paul Weiss NY
Ropes & Gray NY
STB NY
Skadden NY
Weil Gotschal NY
Wilmer Hale NY
Crowell DC
Hughes Hubbard DC
Jones Day DC
King & Spalding DC
Mayer Brown DC
Steptoe DC
Wiley Rein DC
White & Case DC

Safeties

Freshfields NY
Schulte Roth NY
Shearman NY
Wilkie Farr NY


Thanks!

There is really no such thing as a "safety" as far as law firms are concerned. Why? Because, your interview skills matter, and they matter a lot, and the vibe your interviewer gets often depends not only on your interview skills but also on your personality. Law firms aren't like law schools: They aren't for the most part going to just suck you up based on your grades.

That said, this list is a good one--even if the way you categorized it isn't--and I think you should be fine if you stick with it.

[Anonymous User]

ANON Name: NYC-HLS

Hi all,

Looks like this is a trend: I have 3 Hs and 7Ps. I want to go all in for NYC. I've made a list of NY firms, not yet sorted for order of bidding, and was hoping I could get general advice but also specific feedback on: (1) Should I add Cravath, or am I basically out? (2) Which of the firms I listed are reaches? Did I list any that I definitely have no shot at? (3) Are there any firms I should add? Interest areas are broad, but specifically include finance, litigation, white collar defense, and international.

Also, which firms should I take out in order to cut this down to 35 firms? I need to cut out 3, as there are 38 listed here. Thank you.

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, & Garrison LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
sidley austin llp
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
WilmerHale
Morrison & Foerster
Arnold & Porter
O’Melveny & Myers
paul hastings llp
Clifford Chance US LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP
proskauer rose llp
mayer brown llp
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
hogan lovells US LLP
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
Linklaters LLP
Goodwin Procter
Allen & Overy
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
cooley llp
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Dechert LLP
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

[ph14]

ANON Name: NYC-HLS

Hi all,

Looks like this is a trend: I have 3 Hs and 7Ps. I want to go all in for NYC. I've made a list of NY firms, not yet sorted for order of bidding, and was hoping I could get general advice but also specific feedback on: (1) Should I add Cravath, or am I basically out? (2) Which of the firms I listed are reaches? Did I list any that I definitely have no shot at? (3) Are there any firms I should add? Interest areas are broad, but specifically include finance, litigation, white collar defense, and international.

Also, which firms should I take out in order to cut this down to 35 firms? I need to cut out 3, as there are 38 listed here. Thank you.

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, & Garrison LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Sidley Austin LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
WilmerHale
Morrison & Foerster
Arnold & Porter
O’Melveny & Myers
Paul Hastings LLP
Clifford Chance US LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP
Proskauer Rose LLP
Mayer Brown LLP
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Hogan Lovells US LLP
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
Linklaters LLP
Goodwin Procter
Allen & Overy
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Cooley LLP
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Dechert LLP
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

[ph14]

There is really no such thing as a "safety" as far as law firms are concerned. Why? Because, your interview skills matter, and they matter a lot, and the vibe your interviewer gets often depends not only on your interview skills but also on your personality. Law firms aren't like law schools: They aren't for the most part going to just suck you up based on your grades.

Agree

[Anonymous User]

ANON Name: NYC-HLS

Hi all,

Looks like this is a trend: I have 3 Hs and 7Ps. I want to go all in for NYC. I've made a list of NY firms, not yet sorted for order of bidding, and was hoping I could get general advice but also specific feedback on: (1) Should I add Cravath, or am I basically out? (2) Which of the firms I listed are reaches? Did I list any that I definitely have no shot at? (3) Are there any firms I should add? Interest areas are broad, but specifically include finance, litigation, white collar defense, and international.

Also, which firms should I take out in order to cut this down to 35 firms? I need to cut out 3, as there are 38 listed here. Thank you.

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, & Garrison LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Sidley Austin LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
WilmerHale
Morrison & Foerster
Arnold & Porter
O’Melveny & Myers
Paul Hastings LLP
Clifford Chance US LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP
Proskauer Rose LLP
Mayer Brown LLP
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Hogan Lovells US LLP
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
Linklaters LLP
Goodwin Procter
Allen & Overy
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Cooley LLP
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Dechert LLP
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

"NYC-HLS" here. Thanks ph14. Any more specific advice on other law firms to cut, and that address my questions? I see you around a lot and respect your opinion, so I'd appreciate it.

[ph14]

"NYC-HLS" here. Thanks ph14. Any more specific advice on other law firms to cut, and that address my questions? I see you around a lot and respect your opinion, so I'd appreciate it.

Sorry, i'm not too familiar with NYC offices and I'd hate to steer you wrong. There are lots of NYC summers/associates from HLS though, i'm sure somebody will help you out shortly.

[delusional]

There is really no such thing as a "safety" as far as law firms are concerned. Why? Because, your interview skills matter, and they matter a lot, and the vibe your interviewer gets often depends not only on your interview skills but also on your personality. Law firms aren't like law schools: They aren't for the most part going to just suck you up based on your grades.

Agree

Strongly disagree. It is true for 98% of firms but there are some firm(s) where literally 85% of students who want a job get one. If you are in a position where you are seriously worried about striking out, figure out who they are and interview there. Tyler Vigen's website is your friend.

[Anonymous User]

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

Not sure about this advice. I have 4 Hs and OCS encouraged me to put S&C onto my bid list. Not URM or anything special fwiw.

[ph14]

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

Not sure about this advice. I have 4 Hs and OCS encouraged me to put S&C onto my bid list. Not URM or anything special fwiw.

Let us know whether or you get a callback or not.

[Anonymous User]

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

Not sure about this advice. I have 4 Hs and OCS encouraged me to put S&C onto my bid list. Not URM or anything special fwiw.

Let us know whether or you get a callback or not.

Will do. Honestly I get the impression that some spots will probably reserved for superstars and some spots for good interviewers/softs. Look at the EIP stats for last year. Even if they reserved 40 or even 50 CBE for superstars, theres still a decent shot for the rest. I'm probably talking out of my a** here like most things on TLS but it makes sense to me.

[Anonymous User]

Would also appreciate any thoughts/comments on this first draft of a bid list. 7H/3P, none of the "plus" factors listed on the OCS website. Interested in regulatory or lit. Strong preference for DC but I hear it's a tough city so tried to throw in a few NYC firms with larger classes. However, I have no idea what I'm doing. Missing key firms? Including ones that I shouldn't given my profile/interests? Ranking some too low/high? Any and all comments appreciated.

-Tuco Salamanca

1 WilmerHale DC
2 Debevoise NYC
3 Arnold & Porter DC
4 hogan lovells DC
5 Williams & Connolly DC
6 Jones Day DC
7 SullCrom NYC
8 Shearman NYC
9 tertiary market firm
10 Skadden NYC
11 Kirkland Ellis DC
12 Davis Polk NYC
13 Sidley DC
14 Crowell DC
15 Mayer Brown DC
16 Paul Weiss NYC
17 Venable DC
18 tertiary market
19 Jenner Block DC
20 Covington DC
21 Gibson Dunn DC
22 Goodwin Proctor DC
23 tertiary market
24 Wiley Rein DC
25 Simpson Thatcher NYC
26 White & Case DC
27 WilkieFarr NYC
28 Cleary DC
29 Epstein Becker Green DC

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

If I've got 1 DS and 9 Ps (odd, I know), where should I even consider bidding? Open to most places, just want to know where I'm 100% eliminated from.

Thanks to anyone who reaches out to help!

[Anonymous User]

ANON Name: NYC-HLS

Hi all,

Looks like this is a trend: I have 3 Hs and 7Ps. I want to go all in for NYC. I've made a list of NY firms, not yet sorted for order of bidding, and was hoping I could get general advice but also specific feedback on: (1) Should I add Cravath, or am I basically out? (2) Which of the firms I listed are reaches? Did I list any that I definitely have no shot at? (3) Are there any firms I should add? Interest areas are broad, but specifically include finance, litigation, white collar defense, and international.

Also, which firms should I take out in order to cut this down to 35 firms? I need to cut out 3, as there are 38 listed here. Thank you.

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, & Garrison LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Sidley Austin LLP
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
WilmerHale
Morrison & Foerster
Arnold & Porter
O’Melveny & Myers
Paul Hastings LLP
Clifford Chance US LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP
Proskauer Rose LLP
Mayer Brown LLP
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Hogan Lovells US LLP
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
Linklaters LLP
Goodwin Procter
Allen & Overy
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Cooley LLP
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Dechert LLP
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

I think S&C's cut-off is roughly 6 Hs (not sure how hard and fast this is), so if you need to cut 3 firms out, I would start with cutting S&C. Good luck.

HLS alum in NYC. I would keep at least Cravath, and probably S&C as well. 3H can get you Cravath for sure. If you need to cut, I would cut three firms with smaller summer programs (use the EIP statistics spreadsheet provided by OCS). Smaller summer programs mean that less offers are available, which might make the interview process a bit more quirky.

[Anonymous User]

HLS alum in NYC. I would keep at least Cravath, and probably S&C as well. 3H can get you Cravath for sure. If you need to cut, I would cut three firms with smaller summer programs (use the EIP statistics spreadsheet provided by OCS). Smaller summer programs mean that less offers are available, which might make the interview process a bit more quirky.

The anon, NYC-HLS, here. Thanks for the feedback. I'll add Cravath, and then remove some of the firms with smaller class sizes.

It seems that a lot of people are saying that 3H/7P is good enough to safetly apply to all the V10 firms. I was aiming for a more conservative list than that, but this is good to know. Three questions: (1) Is what I just said true? (2) Which firms on my list are reaches? (3) Do I need to include more "target" firms, or is my list fine as is?

Thanks a lot guys. As a refresher, here is the list (all NYC firms):

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, & Garrison LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
sidley austin llp
Jones Day
White & Case LLP
WilmerHale
Morrison & Foerster
Arnold & Porter
O’Melveny & Myers
paul hastings llp
Clifford Chance US LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP
proskauer rose llp
mayer brown llp
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
hogan lovells US LLP
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
Linklaters LLP
Goodwin Procter
Allen & Overy
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
cooley llp
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
Dechert LLP
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

[delusional]

The post above about 3h/7p applying to all of the v10 ought to be qualified a bit.

Just because we all know people with those grades who got V10 offers does not mean that grades don't matter to those firms. You shouldn't be looking for rules. You should be thinking about what you want and using common sense in trying to get it.

Some common sense:
There are people who win the lottery - they just get totally lucky and get an offer from Munger with 2H and an LP. That is not relevant to you in preparing.
There are people who have median grades but have other things to recommend them - a published article, an MBA, banking experience, etc.
Some people might benefit from being URM.

You should not use ten bids on the V10 because there are some people who get offers. That is a survivorship bias at work. Do what OCS recommends - use several bids on reaches, most on targets, and several on safeties. (OCS is a bit too conservative in defining reaches, targets etc. but the theory is just common sense.)

Also, the V10 are not all equal. SullCrom is well known to focus more on grades. Don't bid on them with 3H because your chances are a lot worse there than they are at Cravath. Don't bid on either of them if you are a lily white K-JD poetry major and one of your Hs was in "Law and Psychology". That's not to say nobody in that situation ever got an offer from Cravath. It's just that if rankings are so important to you, Skadden and Kirkland are much better bets.

[Anonymous User]

Throwing my hat in the ring. 1H/9Ps for the year (H was in fall semester): honestly not sure what I need to change to get better grades, maybe just exam skills but who knows (also as a quick aside, I'm living testament that being above top 25% of HLS LSAT scores IN NO WAY guarantees superior class performance.)

Looking to do litigation in NYC, and I'd say above-average interviewing skills - OCS mock interviewer loved me, said I really didn't have anything I needed to change. Anyhow, any thoughts on what my options are for potentially grabbing a T25 NY offer? OCS seemed to think my prospects were actually pretty good, but I'm hesitant to believe them.

EDIT*: Adding my tentative bid list for critique (All NYC offices)

1. Skadden
2. Simpson
3. Davis
4. Milbank
5. Debevoise
6. Gibson
7. Kramer
8. Kaye Sholer
9. Kirkland
10. Latham
11. Proskauer
12. Cahill
13. Weil
14. Cadwalader
15. Paul Weiss
16. Pilsbury
17. Wilkie-Farr
18. Shearman
19. Sidley
20. Dechert
21. Boies
22. Hughes Hubbard
23. White Case
24. Freshfields
25. Winston Strawn
26. WilmerHale
27. McDermott
28. Akin Gump
39. Morgan Lewis
30. Curtis Mallet
31. Hogan
32. DLA Piper
33. Jenner
34. Hunton Williams

[Anonymous User]

hi all, sorry to be annoying with another one of these, but any/all feedback would be appreciated! 2H/8P (both Hs were in spring semester):

Paul Weiss
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Proskauer Rose
Jones Day
Paul Hastings
Shearman & Sterling
Sidley Austin
Clifford Chance
hogan lovells
Latham
Cahill
Goodwin Procter
Fried Frank
Orrick
Milbank
Wilkie Farr
Cadwalader
Bingham McCutchen
Fenwick & West
Linklaters
Fitzpatrick Cella Harper & Scinto
Debevoise
Arnold Porter
DLA Piper
White & Case
Covington
Akin Gump
K&L Gates
Dechert
Bois, Schiller & Flexner
Jenner & Block
Schulte
Kay Schouler
Gibson Dunn
Chadbourne

i tried to be as conservative as possible with a few reaches (i know GD is grade sensitive, but...). interested in litigation, employment, entertainment/media, not very interesting work experience (mostly writing-based), and not sure where i stand as an interviewer. should i be looking into mass mailing (who?) before EIP? thanks!!