2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[daleearnhardt123]

Don't remove cleary. Minority + big NYC office = unpredictability. DPW and Sullcrom are true Hail Marys and boies is in a diff category, but cleary should remain IMO.

[daleearnhardt123]

As a general matter, the "firm bands" that OCS releases are incredibly unhelpful. Posting your info here along with k-JD/minority/female/good WE/military will probably get you a far better perspective on whether or not you are competitive for Prestigious & Big LLP

[Anonymous User]

Anybody in the past do the On Tour Interview Program for Chicago? I have a low 3.6X and wondering what my chances are of getting preselected for Kirkland/Sidley/Katten/Latham

[Anonymous User]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

[daleearnhardt123]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

This is very GPA and market dependent. What I would say to anyone with reason to at least be worrying about getting big law (I.e white male K-JDs below 3.5, minorities/women below median). Bid new yorks big summer classes and bid new yorks less selective firms. Many of these will overlap. Some of the big ones are wastes (cravath , sullcrom, DPW) but by and large you need to bid the NY offices that fit EITHER criteria. (big OR not selective). This info is not hard to track down. Look at the "bands" sheet from OCS, and look at firms beneath band one. This is a quick and dirty shortcut, but good enough to get the broad strokes down . Then cross reference those firms on NALP directory to see class size.

**white male K-JDs: it definitely sucks to be told you may have reason to "worry" beneath a 3.5, but such is law firm recruiting. This is meant as a reminder to not take things for granted.**

[Anonymous User]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

This is very GPA and market dependent. What I would say to anyone with reason to at least be worrying about getting big law (I.e white male K-JDs below 3.5, minorities/women below median). Bid new yorks big summer classes and bid new yorks less selective firms. Many of these will overlap. Some of the big ones are wastes (cravath , sullcrom, DPW) but by and large you need to bid the NY offices that fit EITHER criteria. (big OR not selective). This info is not hard to track down. Look at the "bands" sheet from OCS, and look at firms beneath band one. This is a quick and dirty shortcut, but good enough to get the broad strokes down . Then cross reference those firms on NALP directory to see class size.

**white male K-JDs: it definitely sucks to be told you may have reason to "worry" beneath a 3.5, but such is law firm recruiting. This is meant as a reminder to not take things for granted.**

Non URM 3.51. Which side of the line do I fall?

[daleearnhardt123]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

This is very GPA and market dependent. What I would say to anyone with reason to at least be worrying about getting big law (I.e white male K-JDs below 3.5, minorities/women below median). Bid new yorks big summer classes and bid new yorks less selective firms. Many of these will overlap. Some of the big ones are wastes (cravath , sullcrom, DPW) but by and large you need to bid the NY offices that fit EITHER criteria. (big OR not selective). This info is not hard to track down. Look at the "bands" sheet from OCS, and look at firms beneath band one. This is a quick and dirty shortcut, but good enough to get the broad strokes down . Then cross reference those firms on NALP directory to see class size.

**white male K-JDs: it definitely sucks to be told you may have reason to "worry" beneath a 3.5, but such is law firm recruiting. This is meant as a reminder to not take things for granted.**

Non URM 3.51. Which side of the line do I fall?

Wachtell pre-select, obvs.

[Anonymous User]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

This is very GPA and market dependent. What I would say to anyone with reason to at least be worrying about getting big law (I.e white male K-JDs below 3.5, minorities/women below median). Bid new yorks big summer classes and bid new yorks less selective firms. Many of these will overlap. Some of the big ones are wastes (cravath , sullcrom, DPW) but by and large you need to bid the NY offices that fit EITHER criteria. (big OR not selective). This info is not hard to track down. Look at the "bands" sheet from OCS, and look at firms beneath band one. This is a quick and dirty shortcut, but good enough to get the broad strokes down . Then cross reference those firms on NALP directory to see class size.

**white male K-JDs: it definitely sucks to be told you may have reason to "worry" beneath a 3.5, but such is law firm recruiting. This is meant as a reminder to not take things for granted.**

Non URM 3.51. Which side of the line do I fall?

Wachtell pre-select, obvs.

I'm trying to be serious. I feel like I am on a bubble more or less, being just over the 3.5 marker than career services throws around a lot.

[hoorahray]

In selecting bids should be look for firms with big class sizes or firms that less people bid last year? Obviously both is preferred but I assume big class size > less bids?

Anon in case this answer is grade dependent, I can provide my GPA.

Do any OGI veterans (or helpful rising 2Ls) want to provide like a basic bud strategy?

This is very GPA and market dependent. What I would say to anyone with reason to at least be worrying about getting big law (I.e white male K-JDs below 3.5, minorities/women below median). Bid new yorks big summer classes and bid new yorks less selective firms. Many of these will overlap. Some of the big ones are wastes (cravath , sullcrom, DPW) but by and large you need to bid the NY offices that fit EITHER criteria. (big OR not selective). This info is not hard to track down. Look at the "bands" sheet from OCS, and look at firms beneath band one. This is a quick and dirty shortcut, but good enough to get the broad strokes down . Then cross reference those firms on NALP directory to see class size.

**white male K-JDs: it definitely sucks to be told you may have reason to "worry" beneath a 3.5, but such is law firm recruiting. This is meant as a reminder to not take things for granted.**

Non URM 3.51. Which side of the line do I fall?

Bid conservatively for the band that you're in (so if 3.5 puts you in band 1, go for the less grade selective band 1 firms and lots of band 2 firms). If you're a NYC/DC person like most of UVA, bid the largest classes from the least selective firms in each city as targets, bid smaller classes/more selective firms as reaches. If you're ok with being in NYC, that means you're probably going to have a more NYC heavy bid list, since DC classes are often smaller/more selective.

The simple fact is, there is no perfect bid list. It just depends on how risk averse you are. Super risk averse? Sort the spreadsheet by largest class size in NYC and any secondaries you have ties to and bid most selective to least selective to maximize lottery slots. Not so risk averse? Take some chances in your top 10.

[Wahoos]

Don't remove cleary. Minority + big NYC office = unpredictability. DPW and Sullcrom are true Hail Marys and boies is in a diff category, but cleary should remain IMO.

Cleary NY only had one interview room (so 20 interview spots) the last couple of years, iirc. Check on that. If it's one interview room, the person who posted the bidlist will not get them for preselect or that far down their bidlist via the lottery

[Yardbird]

From the Law Students thread, it seems law review phone calls started today. Anybody get the good news?

[Anonymous User]

From the Law Students thread, it seems law review phone calls started today. Anybody get the good news?

Anon so I'm not outed, but yeah, I got the call. It woke me up from my nap. Grades are pretty high, and my write-on was shit, so I'm assuming I graded on.

[Anonymous User]

Bid conservatively for the band that you're in (so if 3.5 puts you in band 1, go for the less grade selective band 1 firms and lots of band 2 firms). If you're a NYC/DC person like most of UVA, bid the largest classes from the least selective firms in each city as targets, bid smaller classes/more selective firms as reaches. If you're ok with being in NYC, that means you're probably going to have a more NYC heavy bid list, since DC classes are often smaller/more selective.

The simple fact is, there is no perfect bid list. It just depends on how risk averse you are. Super risk averse? Sort the spreadsheet by largest class size in NYC and any secondaries you have ties to and bid most selective to least selective to maximize lottery slots. Not so risk averse? Take some chances in your top 10.

Thank you for both who provided some guidance.

It just seems that a lot of the less selective firms (which I judge as not being "Ban 1*") have significantly smaller class sizes so it's a give and take.

[Yardbird]

From the Law Students thread, it seems law review phone calls started today. Anybody get the good news?

Anon so I'm not outed, but yeah, I got the call. It woke me up from my nap. Grades are pretty high, and my write-on was shit, so I'm assuming I graded on.

Congrats!

[pertristis]

From the Law Students thread, it seems law review phone calls started today. Anybody get the good news?

Anon so I'm not outed, but yeah, I got the call. It woke me up from my nap. Grades are pretty high, and my write-on was shit, so I'm assuming I graded on.

Congrats!

I know of at least one person who received an invitation to join VLR. Theoretically, it could be the person above, but I don't know.

Generally, the full list is released fairly soon. They'll want to ensure that everyone offered a spot accepts (people may transfer, may be dual degree, may not want to put up with VLR nonsense, et cetera). If someone declines a spot for whatever reason, they go down the list until the enumerated spots are filled. Last year, the list was released about a week after offers, as someone held out for a while.

[daleearnhardt123]

Bid conservatively for the band that you're in (so if 3.5 puts you in band 1, go for the less grade selective band 1 firms and lots of band 2 firms). If you're a NYC/DC person like most of UVA, bid the largest classes from the least selective firms in each city as targets, bid smaller classes/more selective firms as reaches. If you're ok with being in NYC, that means you're probably going to have a more NYC heavy bid list, since DC classes are often smaller/more selective.

The simple fact is, there is no perfect bid list. It just depends on how risk averse you are. Super risk averse? Sort the spreadsheet by largest class size in NYC and any secondaries you have ties to and bid most selective to least selective to maximize lottery slots. Not so risk averse? Take some chances in your top 10.

Thank you for both who provided some guidance.

It just seems that a lot of the less selective firms (which I judge as not being "Ban 1*") have significantly smaller class sizes so it's a give and take.

If you're the poster who was asking about being a 3.51, my apologies for not taking it seriously. But you should really know that a 0.1 is not some magic elixir. I understand 3.5 is a hot # to throw around as shorthand for having done "well" but that doesn't bestow upon it some magic power. Really, 3.5 is just a nice round figure as far as a GPA between 3.0 and 4.0 goes.

If i was a K-JD white male ("KJDWM") with a 3.51 I wouldn't rest on my laurels. In fact, I don't think I'd enter into "blase-don't give a shit mode" as a KJDWM with anything beneath VLR grade-on. I know many such people from the class of 2015 (KJDWMs above a 3.5 but beneath VLR grade-on) who had a hard time at OGI and whose process stretched into october and november. That wasn't typical, but remember, as a KLJDWM you are a dime a dozen at T14s. If you don't devote the serious commitment and preparation to this process that it deserves, you'll suffer for it. I *dont* know any >3.5s who didnt end up with a firm job or something else that they wanted when all was said and done, but that's no reason to be dragging this process out throughout the entire fall semester. It's truly a miserable situation to find yourself in--flying to secondary markets or to lesser NYC firms on thursdays and fridays while all your friends are at Bar Review.


As far as the "Bands" go, they are bordering on useless. OCS has much more granular information that they really should just release, but if you schedule an appointment with them my understanding is theyll give you firm-specific stats from the past several years. If you want to list your target markets here, as well as firms you're considering, perhaps I and others can help you.

[84651846190]

#YesAllKJDWM

[playpowerball]

Would any rising 3Ls+ be willing to take a quick look over my bidlist via pm? Don't really want to put my stats up here right now

[Anonymous User]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. hogan lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC
9. Davis Polk NYC
10. Fried Frank NYC
11. Gibson Dunn DC
12. Proskauer Rose NYC
13. White & Case NYC
14. Latham & Watkins NYC
15. WilmerHale DC
16. Baker Botts DC
17. Ropes & Gray NYC
18. K&L Gates DC
19. Dechert DC
20. Simpson Thacher NYC
21. Jones Day DC
22. Shearman & Sterling NYC
23. Weil Gotshall & Manges NYC
24. Debevoise & Plimpton NYC
25. Crowell & Moring DC
26. Wilkie Farr & Gallagher NYC
27. Sidley Austin NYC
28. Cahill Gordon NYC
29. Cleary Gottlieb NYC
30. Nelson Mullins DC
31. King & Spalding DC
32. Cadwalader NYC
33. Wiley Rein DC
34. Sutherland DC
35. Milbank NYC
36. Paul Weiss NYC
37. Clifford Chance NYC
38. Steptoe & Johnson DC
39. Pillsbury DC
40. Goodwin Procter DC
41. Winston & Strawn DC
42. Paul Hastings NYC
43. Bingham McCutchen DC
44. Holland & Knight DC
45. Wilson Sonsini DC
46. Allen & Overy NYC
47. Baker Hostetler DC
48. Hollingsworth DC
49. Sheppard Mullin DC
50. Cooley DC

[Anonymous User]

As a general matter, the "firm bands" that OCS releases are incredibly unhelpful. Posting your info here along with k-JD/minority/female/good WE/military will probably get you a far better perspective on whether or not you are competitive for Prestigious & Big LLP

The firm bands are unhelpful. My office isn't that wahoo heavy, and had so few wahoo cb's that the data is too small a sample size. However, the asterisk were generally correct. There are firms that sub-3.7, you're down four touchdowns at halftime.

[kingjones59]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. Hogan Lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC
9. Davis Polk NYC
10. Fried Frank NYC
11. Gibson Dunn DC
12. Proskauer Rose NYC
13. White & Case NYC
14. Latham & Watkins NYC
15. WilmerHale DC
16. Baker Botts DC
17. Ropes & Gray NYC
18. K&L Gates DC
19. Dechert DC
20. Simpson Thacher NYC
21. Jones Day DC
22. Shearman & Sterling NYC
23. Weil Gotshall & Manges NYC
24. Debevoise & Plimpton NYC
25. Crowell & Moring DC
26. Wilkie Farr & Gallagher NYC
27. Sidley Austin NYC
28. Cahill Gordon NYC
29. Cleary Gottlieb NYC
30. Nelson Mullins DC
31. King & Spalding DC
32. Cadwalader NYC
33. Wiley Rein DC
34. Sutherland DC
35. Milbank NYC
36. Paul Weiss NYC
37. Clifford Chance NYC
38. Steptoe & Johnson DC
39. Pillsbury DC
40. Goodwin Procter DC
41. Winston & Strawn DC
42. Paul Hastings NYC
43. Bingham McCutchen DC
44. Holland & Knight DC
45. Wilson Sonsini DC
46. Allen & Overy NYC
47. Baker Hostetler DC
48. Hollingsworth DC
49. Sheppard Mullin DC
50. Cooley DC

Can I ask why you gave Arent Fox DC a golden ticket? How many SAs does that office take?

[envisciguy]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. Hogan Lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC

Arnold & Porter is likely a wasted bid. I don't think they've hired anyone from UVA in over 3 years.

[Anonymous User]

How big is the class? It could be coincidental. This is definitely too obsessive and wouldn't have changed my end result, but look at the hiring partners of the different firms you bid on. If you see there 50% from school A and the SA's are 50% from school A, it's less likely that underrepresentation of School B is just a statistical anomaly. The firms are ultimately hiring people. Your school never comes up unless someone thinks you might be an idiot, or if you may know his son/daughter.

[cfr1225]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. Hogan Lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC

Arnold & Porter is likely a wasted bid. I don't think they've hired anyone from UVA in over 3 years.

There's a UVA guy at A&P right now. He's LR, though. 3.49 probably isn't going to come anywhere near cutting it, so your bottom line remains true.

[PepperJack]

I'll go ahead and post my bid list to be critiqued. Strong ties to DC, plan on bidding DC/NYC exclusively. Also mass-mailing a secondary market I have ties to as well and have already lined up some pre-OGI callbacks there. GPA is 3.49, I'm not K-JD but have just one year of non-prestigious work experience between UG and law school. SA at a regional firm this summer.

1. Arent Fox DC
2. Kirkland & Ellis NYC
3. Akin Gump DC
4. Hogan Lovells DC
5. Skadden NYC
6. Venable DC
7. Schulte Roth NYC
8. Arnold & Porter DC

Arnold & Porter is likely a wasted bid. I don't think they've hired anyone from UVA in over 3 years.

There's a UVA guy at A&P right now. He's LR, though. 3.49 probably isn't going to come anywhere near cutting it, so your bottom line remains true.

Maybe they want 3.5's so they're smart but not too smart to present, but they never bid so they're stuck with the weird 3.8's.