NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[Icculus]

Hi:
I'm sensing a ton of animosity and dismissive attitude here against OCS. I guess that you 3L's and above say this from personal experience? For me, I'm finding that I get a lot more help from 2L's and above than from OCS. At first, I thought it was b/c I didn't know what I was doing, but now you're confirming that we're really alone here?
Another question is, what can OCS do to those who violate a mass-mailing "policy"??

What can OCS do? Nothing. What are they going to make you do, no-show your interview? Turn down an offer?

The attitude towards OCS comes from a lot of people having poor experiences with them. In my case, my career advisor left months prior to OCI and the school never bothered to replace him. When they did, it was with someone who wasn't a career specialist who gave very poor advice to numerous people regarding bid lists, and was all but worthless with outside of OCI job search tips. Granted, it ended up well for most of those people and me, but the experience was pretty piss poor nonetheless.

Why should you go out of your way to help them if they won't return the favor? Talk to people here and at school who have actually been there.

This. I was in this group as well. And I can tell you I know a few people who were actually hurt by this person's advice.

[terriers]

Good to know, guess I (and my career adviser of course) were wrong. Should we mention anything in cover letters about how we know that they're coming to OCI? Or just treat it like a normal mass-mail?

I would bet money that we have the same career adviser.

Haha, more than likely...not really convinced mine/ours is qualified to critique a bid list either, I seemed to know more about bidding strategies than the adviser did and I'm a lazy person, so I don't really know that much yet.

[lgleye]

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[crumpetsandtea]

Good to know, guess I (and my career adviser of course) were wrong. Should we mention anything in cover letters about how we know that they're coming to OCI? Or just treat it like a normal mass-mail?

I would bet money that we have the same career adviser.

Haha, more than likely...not really convinced mine/ours is qualified to critique a bid list either, I seemed to know more about bidding strategies than the adviser did and I'm a lazy person, so I don't really know that much yet.

Agreed. I went in looking for an "inside scoop" on which firms were within my bid range based on my GPA, location preferences, and WE/classes. My (our?) adviser literally just said "Oh, you know, that's really hard to say...I think you should apply wherever you want to..." When I asked for specific guidance because, you know, I only have so many bids so I can't bid EVERYWHERE, they were like, "Well...it's just difficult to say. Sometimes top firms will surprise you." Then they told me to go look on NALP and Chambers. Gee thanks for the totally generic and pointless info that I could get from a basic web search online. -_-;;

Totally. Fucking. Useless. I talked to a TLSer after that and the quality of advice was 500x better. That's been my experience in every aspect of applying for jobs.

[franklyscarlet]

This may not be the place to ask, but does anyone know how difficult it is to score an OCI interview with London firms or offices/ how high I need to bid them? I think there's only a few. My family is there and my grandpa hasn't been well over the past few years so I'm starting to think it may not be a bad idea to try to get out there sooner than later.

[Icculus]

Good to know, guess I (and my career adviser of course) were wrong. Should we mention anything in cover letters about how we know that they're coming to OCI? Or just treat it like a normal mass-mail?

I would bet money that we have the same career adviser.

Haha, more than likely...not really convinced mine/ours is qualified to critique a bid list either, I seemed to know more about bidding strategies than the adviser did and I'm a lazy person, so I don't really know that much yet.

Agreed. I went in looking for an "inside scoop" on which firms were within my bid range based on my GPA, location preferences, and WE/classes. My (our?) adviser literally just said "Oh, you know, that's really hard to say...I think you should apply wherever you want to..." When I asked for specific guidance because, you know, I only have so many bids so I can't bid EVERYWHERE, they were like, "Well...it's just difficult to say. Sometimes top firms will surprise you." Then they told me to go look on NALP and Chambers. Gee thanks for the totally generic and pointless info that I could get from a basic web search online. -_-;;

Totally. Fucking. Useless. I talked to a TLSer after that and the quality of advice was 500x better. That's been my experience in every aspect of applying for jobs.

In OCS defense, there is really not much they can say. I mean they can't tell you where to bid and they probably don't know very many markets well. Though "apply where you like" is super useless. They could at least mention class sizes, etc.

[crumpetsandtea]

Agreed. I went in looking for an "inside scoop" on which firms were within my bid range based on my GPA, location preferences, and WE/classes. My (our?) adviser literally just said "Oh, you know, that's really hard to say...I think you should apply wherever you want to..." When I asked for specific guidance because, you know, I only have so many bids so I can't bid EVERYWHERE, they were like, "Well...it's just difficult to say. Sometimes top firms will surprise you." Then they told me to go look on NALP and Chambers. Gee thanks for the totally generic and pointless info that I could get from a basic web search online. -_-;;

Totally. Fucking. Useless. I talked to a TLSer after that and the quality of advice was 500x better. That's been my experience in every aspect of applying for jobs.

In OCS defense, there is really not much they can say. I mean they can't tell you where to bid and they probably don't know very many markets well. Though "apply where you like" is super useless. They could at least mention class sizes, etc.

I wasn't looking for a firm breakdown, but I guess more like "Given your WE, it would be good to look for firms who have strong X practice areas because you can write about that in your cover letter" and "Well, when you are looking at your OCI bid list, you should be checking for firms that have X GPA range" or "Here is a resource to look at local firms near your hometown market to expand your massmail search"

That was the advice I got from TLSers, anyway, and I found it much more helpful than "Well, you could apply anywhere! You never know!"

[bdubs]

This may not be the place to ask, but does anyone know how difficult it is to score an OCI interview with London firms or offices/ how high I need to bid them? I think there's only a few. My family is there and my grandpa hasn't been well over the past few years so I'm starting to think it may not be a bad idea to try to get out there sooner than later.

I looked like a dumbass with a magic circle firm when I said I wanted to work in London in a practice that doesn't take US attorneys (not that you actually needed to be a UK solicitor to do it either). Terrible waste of an interview.

I think the firms will list when they recruit for London offices on symplicity. You should really research what it is you can do over there though because going in with an understanding that you will do a very specific subset of US corporate work is probably something that they want to hear.

[franklyscarlet]

This may not be the place to ask, but does anyone know how difficult it is to score an OCI interview with London firms or offices/ how high I need to bid them? I think there's only a few. My family is there and my grandpa hasn't been well over the past few years so I'm starting to think it may not be a bad idea to try to get out there sooner than later.

I looked like a dumbass with a magic circle firm when I said I wanted to work in London in a practice that doesn't take US attorneys (not that you actually needed to be a UK solicitor to do it either). Terrible waste of an interview.

I think the firms will list when they recruit for London offices on symplicity. You should really research what it is you can do over there though because going in with an understanding that you will do a very specific subset of US corporate work is probably something that they want to hear.

Thanks, this is really helpful! I need to get to researching; changing family situation only brought this to mind for me In the past few days.

[lgleye]

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[lgleye]

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[homestyle28]

My take on OCS is that in many ways it's Dave or bust (most people I know have decent experiences with Dave, but haven't heard much good outside him). I think you have to have very specific questions to get useful advice. The general crtique my bidlist bit doesn't get much. For general bidlist critique you all should start posting them here, just go anon and give your stats and top 15 or so bids.

[Samara]

Okay, reading up on the firms. Anyone know approx. when the # of interview slots shows up on Simplicity? Bidding starts in about 2 weeks.

If you, or anyone else, wants to start constructing a bidlist or having it critiqued, look up on NALP the number of SAs the firm expects to hire for the office you want. That should be a rough (proportional) proxy for the number of interviews. I imagine Chicago-based firms and Chicago offices will generally have disproportionately more slots though.

Upperclassmen please feel free to correct any of this.

[crumpetsandtea]

Okay, reading up on the firms. Anyone know approx. when the # of interview slots shows up on Simplicity? Bidding starts in about 2 weeks.

If you, or anyone else, wants to start constructing a bidlist or having it critiqued, look up on NALP the number of SAs the firm expects to hire for the office you want. That should be a rough (proportional) proxy for the number of interviews. I imagine Chicago-based firms and Chicago offices will generally have disproportionately more slots though.

Upperclassmen please feel free to correct any of this.

Not a rising 3L, but this is what I've been doing.

[Georgia Avenue]

Okay, reading up on the firms. Anyone know approx. when the # of interview slots shows up on Simplicity? Bidding starts in about 2 weeks.

If you, or anyone else, wants to start constructing a bidlist or having it critiqued, look up on NALP the number of SAs the firm expects to hire for the office you want. That should be a rough (proportional) proxy for the number of interviews. I imagine Chicago-based firms and Chicago offices will generally have disproportionately more slots though.

Upperclassmen please feel free to correct any of this.

It's a pretty good idea to get a rough estimate, but some firms can be weird. I think Katten has like 20+ SAs but only interviewed 40 kids. Ditto for Winston.

[Anonymous User]

3.7, decent resume, targeting Chicago

DLA Piper
Katten
Foley & Lardner
McDermott
Sidley
Kirkland
Barack Ferrazzano
Dentons
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Greenberg Traurig
Dykema Gossett
Mayer Brown
Perkins Coie
Quarles & Brady
Pircher
Drinker Biddle

-anon1

[Anonymous User]

Based on 3.3 GPA, targeting NYC:

Bid 1-5 Bid 6-10 Bid 11-15
Chadbourne
Cahill
Dechert
Kaye Scholer
Pillsbury
Proskquer
Milbank
Al;ston Bird
Fried Frank
White & Case
Willkie Farr
Cadwalader
Shearman Sterling
Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown

Not sure where to insert Fitzpatrick Schiff Hardin, Gunderson, or any of those smaller firms, like IP, etc.
,

[Georgia Avenue]

3.7, decent resume, targeting Chicago

DLA Piper
Katten
Foley & Lardner
McDermott
Sidley
Kirkland
Barack Ferrazzano
Dentons
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Greenberg Traurig
Dykema Gossett
Mayer Brown
Perkins Coie
Quarles & Brady
Pircher
Drinker Biddle

-anon1

Is this ranked in order? What kind of law do you want to practice?

I'd add Latham also, and get rid of Pircher unless you want RE

[Icculus]

Anyone targetting NYC and/or Boston can feel free to PM me a bid list and I'll be happy to take a look at it, or post it here and I can try and respond as well.

[homestyle28]

3.7, decent resume, targeting Chicago

DLA Piper
Katten
Foley & Lardner
McDermott
Sidley
Kirkland
Barack Ferrazzano
Dentons
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Greenberg Traurig
Dykema Gossett
Mayer Brown
Perkins Coie
Quarles & Brady
Pircher
Drinker Biddle

-anon1

Looks ok. What do you want to do? Folely seems a little high to me, Mayer a little low. No Jones Day or Skadden?

[Icculus]

Based on 3.3 GPA, targeting NYC:

Bid 1-5 Bid 6-10 Bid 11-15
Chadbourne Proskauer Willkie Farr
Cahill
Dechert
Kaye Scholer
Pillsbury
Proskquer
Milbank
Alston Bird
Fried Frank
White & Case
Willkie Farr
Cadwalader
Shearman Sterling
Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown

Not sure where to insert Fitzpatrick Schiff Hardin, Gunderson, or any of those smaller firms, like IP, etc.
,

Is this in order? It posted a little oddly.

I know this may sound crazy, but I would add Weil on there. They have a huge class, tend to like NU students, and I think dip down to 3.3.

Also, I think Paul Weiss usually has an enormous class as well so you may want to add them.

Edit: I would also put Strook & Strook on there.

[Icculus]

3.7, decent resume, targeting Chicago

DLA Piper
Katten
Foley & Lardner
McDermott
Sidley
Kirkland
Barack Ferrazzano
Dentons
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Greenberg Traurig
Dykema Gossett
Mayer Brown
Perkins Coie
Quarles & Brady
Pircher
Drinker Biddle

-anon1

Looks ok. What do you want to do? Folely seems a little high to me, Mayer a little low. No Jones Day or Skadden?

Kirkland and Sidley should maybe be higher if you are really shooting for them. Those slots go fast. I think Sidley went at 2 or 3 last year (someone who bid Chi correct me if I am wrong). Kirkland ususally has a larger number of interview slots so they may last a bit longer.

[homestyle28]

3.7, decent resume, targeting Chicago

DLA Piper
Katten
Foley & Lardner
McDermott
Sidley
Kirkland
Barack Ferrazzano
Dentons
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Greenberg Traurig
Dykema Gossett
Mayer Brown
Perkins Coie
Quarles & Brady
Pircher
Drinker Biddle

-anon1

Looks ok. What do you want to do? Folely seems a little high to me, Mayer a little low. No Jones Day or Skadden?

Kirkland and Sidley should maybe be higher if you are really shooting for them. Those slots go fast. I think Sidley went at 2 or 3 last year (someone who bid Chi correct me if I am wrong). Kirkland ususally has a larger number of interview slots so they may last a bit longer.

Cue the Kirkland OCS drama story...

[Georgia Avenue]

I personally think bidding Sidley without a 3.8+, LR, or both is a waste of a bid because you will have to bid them super high and have a very low chance without those credentials.

Caveat, none of this advice applies if you're IP

[Georgia Avenue]

Anyone targetting NYC and/or Boston can feel free to PM me a bid list and I'll be happy to take a look at it, or post it here and I can try and respond as well.

+1 I'll do this for the one person on here targeting DC