Firms to love Forum

[tengoqueso]

How about QOL at Magic Circle in NY? Heard vaguely positive things re Linklaters, A&O, & Magic Circle in general.. anyone agree or feel differently?

[Old Gregg]

+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.

It's one of those TLS memes. If the firm is more selective and smaller, it must be better. Just a really weird circle jerk for nerds I guess.

[JusticeHarlan]

I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.

Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."

I know the use of the word "love" is just repeating the title of the thread, but did this thing, and especially the last line, remind anyone else of Nineteen-Eighty Four?

O cruel, needless working conditions! O stubborn, self-willed exile with 2500 billable hours! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother Steve Susman.

[erico]

spoiler alert...jeez.

[nonprofit-prophet]

+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.

It's one of those TLS memes. If the firm is more selective and smaller, it must be better. Just a really weird circle jerk for nerds I guess.

I don't really get why this is hard to understand. If you want to do lit, boutiques provide way more substantive experience than just about any v5 or v20 lit department. I interviewed with a bunch of the top 10 vault lit boutiques and every one of them had their associates do solo depositions within a few weeks of starting work. One of them even had a summer take a deposition. And these weren't low-level witnesses or small cases either. How many big firms can say that? Again, all the associates average about a trial a year. During my screeners and CBs, most 3rd year big law associates had never been to trial. And if they had, they certainly weren't second chairing it. They were writing memos or very small portions of briefs and watching the trial. Their boutique counterparts were writing the briefs and crossing witnesses at trial.

Obviously, if you want to do transactional work, lit boutiques probably seem unimpressive to you. But if you want to do lit, boutiques like Keker and Susman provide way more opportunities to grow your skill set than big law.

[RPK34]

+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.

Thanks for including that bit of information

[Old Gregg]

+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.

Thanks for including that bit of information

This. This. This. And I realize I'm somewhat gratuitous with that info on my end here, but only desire is to increase credibly (because, and misguidedly so, credibility is enhanced by vault rank around these parts).

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Milbank, Morgan Lewis, & Proskauer on the lit side?

[Anonymous User]

any insights on OMM in LA?

[somewhatwayward]

+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.

Thanks for including that bit of information

My point was just that I have no horse in this race

[Anonymous User]

What about Davis Polk? Seems like it gets a lot of love on TLS, but why?

[Anonymous User]

What about Davis Polk? Seems like it gets a lot of love on TLS, but why?

At my school they have a reputation for being the "nice" V5 firm. I certainly found the interviewing partners and associates to be much more cordial than the people at many other firms. But it was also clear that they work the usual v5 hours, that partnership prospects are bleak, and that junior associates do a lot of make-work. The office is quite nice, though. Not a "firm to love," but perhaps a "firm to tolerate."

[Anonymous User]

Vinson & Elkins

Great people, decent work-life balance (for a big firm), reasonable face time expectations.

+1

[Anonymous User]

Vinson & Elkins

Great people, decent work-life balance (for a big firm), reasonable face time expectations.

+1

Good to hear
-2L who was just offered a summer with V&E NY

[ryanmot]

I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.

Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."

+1

[TheZoid]

So how do you enjoy depositioning witnesses at Susman?

[hume85]

Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.

It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.

Let's not overstate things, please.

She/He is not overstating anything. Most big law litigation partners have tried a handful of cases at most.

[hume85]

I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.

Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."

If you want to become a top-notch, well compensated trial lawyer, Susman is a firm to love.

[monkey85]

Vinson & Elkins

Great people, decent work-life balance (for a big firm), reasonable face time expectations.

+1

Good to hear
-2L who was just offered a summer with V&E NY

Great firm. Love what they did with Enron.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I know Ropes got a lot of love in this thread but I heard that they can be a bit ruthless in laying people off/firing. At least one person told me Ropes is a great place to be but a tough place to stay.

That said, I still think they're awesome and would've probably taken an offer from them if I had gotten one.

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day?

[RickyDnwhyc]

.

[Old Gregg]

Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.

It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.

Let's not overstate things, please.

She/He is not overstating anything. Most big law litigation partners have tried a handful of cases at most.

Yes, bet-the-company litigations tend to be less common place and to settle more than glorified slip-and-falls.

I realize I'm simplifying a lot. But the glorified Susman "you'll be Evan Chesler after your first year" brown nosing is gross simplification in tr opposite direction. Fight fire with fire, I say.

[09042014]

Jones Day?

Night and Weekends.

[homestyle28]

Jones Day?

Night and Weekends.

So very different from the rest of biglaw