Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

are Indiana/Ohio ties useful in applying to Michigan firms (and vice versa, if you know). I'm from one of the three and looking to mail Indianapolis, Detroit, C-Bus, and Cincy

Unless we're talking Toledo, this would not be a factor in my experience. Even Toledo would only be a minor factor.

OP

[Anonymous User]

How are firms with patent prosecution practices doing in MI? Is hiring picking up with the opening of the Detroit examiner office?

[Anonymous User]

Sorry, no knowledge on patent prosecution practice. Just not an area that I'm familiar with. OP

[Anonymous User]

I'll be clerking in Michigan starting in August - when do clerks usually apply for positions beginning in 2014?

[Anonymous User]

I'll be clerking in Michigan starting in August - when do clerks usually apply for positions beginning in 2014?

This varies from firm to firm. Your best bet would be to ask the recruiting chairs/directors when they prefer applications from term clerks. My overall impression is that some firms interview 8-9 months out from start date, while others prefer about 6 months out.

OP

[Anonymous User]

OP, do you have any idea what the odds of making partner are at your firm/other Michigan firms? Just wondering if this is something worth considering when choosing between Michigan firms and firms in larger markets.

[Anonymous User]

OP, do you have any idea what the odds of making partner are at your firm/other Michigan firms? Just wondering if this is something worth considering when choosing between Michigan firms and firms in larger markets.

I don't have enough information on other Michigan firms to offer an informed opinion on this question. My firm has a two-tier partnership structure and you typically make junior partner somewhere between year 6 and year 8. You're then considered for full partner starting in year 13. Almost everyone who puts in the time seems to get elevated to junior partner - you're not judged on origination, but on legal skills, work product, etc. Origination figures heavily in your chances to make full partner. I think my firm's approach is somewhat typical for the market, but I can't say for certain.

OP

[Anonymous User]

A bit of advice based on callbacks I have participated in recently: If you're asked if you have callbacks outside Michigan, there's no need to get sweat the answer or seem defensive about it. The question's usually being asked because you've got an obvious tie to another market (undergrad institution, interned for a judge, etc.).

There's no right or wrong answer. It's just one more datapoint. Michigan firms may want to know because they realize they're on a different timeline than NY/Chicago/DC.

OP

[Anonymous User]

I noticed in your first post you mentioned that for transactional work Honigman, Miller Canfield, DW and Bodman were your places to be. Any preference within those in terms of culture/lifestyle of an associate that you know of? Is there a reason Foley or Dykema didn't make your cut?

[Anonymous User]

Foley's office is small (under 40 attorneys, I believe). At a place like Miller Canfield and the others you're going to have 60+ attorneys in corporate/finance. Can't really compare the two situations. My perception is that Dykema trails the others in the transactional practices.

Comparing the others, it really depends on what's important to you or where you feel you fit. Miller Canfield and Dickinson have more diversity of transactional practices, Bodman is well above the rest in banking, Honigman is more like a NY/Chicago firm in that the atmosphere is more competitive and less collaborative.

OP

[Anonymous User]

How busy is the Detroit legal market- specifically the corporate work? Do you see Detroit firms (or maybe just Honigman) raising salaries anytime soon? What are the exit options like at the big Detroit firms? TYIA!

[Anonymous User]

How do you think Dykema squares up next to the other Detroit firms in general? Are they in your "top five MI firm" list?

[Anonymous User]

Any top five list is subjective.

That said, my top five - ranked by their size here, not to indicate how I think they would be grouped if I were picking a firm - would be Miller Canfield, Honigman, Dickinson, Dykema and Bodman. Within this list the key distinctions would be practice groups, areas of firm emphasis, partnership track structure, compensation struction. Overall, though, they each do excellent work and have more similarities than differences.

The Detroit legal market is stronger right now than most people outside the market realize. Firms are hiring a few more SAs and recruiting targeted laterals. Anecdotally, my fellow associates at all of the firms above appear to be very busy. Nobody's worried the way they were even two or three years ago.

No idea on salaries.

Can't really speak on a very informed basis on exit options. I'm not looking outside. We've had very few associates leave us in the past few years, the majority that have left have gone in-house with large corps in Michigan.

OP

[Anonymous User]

Do you know about how many SAs are no-offered in the Detroit market and if so where (and beyond typical work-product issues, why)?

[Anonymous User]

It's been years since my firm no-offered a SA or since I've heard of any large Detroit firm doing so. But it's not something that I'm trying to run down, either.

OP

[Anonymous User]

I'm a UofM 2L and was recently offered a callback after a phone screener from mass mailing a top 5 Michigan firm. I am from a NYC/DC/SF/LA area (not midwest) and never lived in the midwest prior to 1L.

I was wondering if the callback is pretty much a waste of time? Based on what I've read in this thread, I'm pretty surprised I got a callback at all.

[20160810]

Whose bk groups seem to me the most involved in Detroit's chapter 9 case (of the Michigan firms)?

[Anonymous User]

Any insights into Honigman? Really anything beyond what has already been said or that is easily findable with google.

[Anonymous User]

Any insights into Honigman? Really anything beyond what has already been said or that is easily findable with google.

Not OP, but what do you want to know?

[Anonymous User]

I noticed Clark Hill seemed to be missing from your recent discussions of top Detroit/Michigan firms. Do you have any insight on it, e.g. culture/lifestyle, stability, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I noticed Clark Hill seemed to be missing from your recent discussions of top Detroit/Michigan firms. Do you have any insight on it, e.g. culture/lifestyle, stability, etc.

Not OP here - but OP may not realize Clark Hill is the fifth largest Michigan Law Firm as of at least June 1, 2013 based on number of attorneys in SW Michigan according to Crain's Detroit. In addition, Clark Hill merged with Thorpe Reed this year and has over 300 attorneys total. Though hard numbers are hard to come by, according to this list - http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... law-firms# - Dykema is the largest as far as total attorneys firm-wide, Dickenson Wright and Clark Hill tied for second, and Miller Canfield third. Head counts fluctuate, but those are some numbers for whatever they are worth.

[Anonymous User]

what are the order of prestige for detroit law firms

[Anonymous User]

what are the order of prestige for detroit law firms

Not OP here, but I work at a large Detroit firm, and I have to say the answer to that question will vary, likely depending on where the person answering works. This market isn't like NYC, with lots of third party rankings out there. I'm not aware of rankings lists that are meaningful beyond mere size. Someone could make a list, and likely all the firm rankings could be debated. I'm better able to say who is lower on the prestige scale than higher, but I wouldn't venture a ranking of "order of prestige." In other words, I can think of a list of what I would consider "peer firms," and then everyone else.

I can tell you Honigman would tell you they are the most pretigious - but OF COURSE they would (if you know this market, you know exactly what I mean).

This list here is a good reference, but this isn't a "prestige" list. For example, Trott & Trott is a large-ish firm, but they are largely high-volume title work and not exactly prestigious. Plunket Cooney does lots of high-volume insurance work and pays first year associates significantly less [edit: than market for a firm their size], but it's a bigish firm. Kitch is large-ish but pays associates dirt. So here. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... law-firms#

[Anonymous User]

Any insights into Honigman? Really anything beyond what has already been said or that is easily findable with google.

Not OP, but what do you want to know?

Culture. Practice areas with the highest growth/most profit. What they look for in candidates. Etc. I have a pretty good idea that I'd like to work there (over other MI firms). But more info is always good.

[Anonymous User]

Any insights into Honigman? Really anything beyond what has already been said or that is easily findable with google.

Not OP, but what do you want to know?

Culture. Practice areas with the highest growth/most profit. What they look for in candidates. Etc. I have a pretty good idea that I'd like to work there (over other MI firms). But more info is always good.

Not op, or that guy who asked what you want to know, actually I'm the guy from the last two posts before your last one, but I know a guy my age, partner at Honigman, and everything bad you might hear is true. You'll bank, but you may not like your life. They are a NYC culture firm in the Midwest, aka, assholes. And I say this with all sincerity - if that's ok, they do great work.

When the recession hit, they cut the starting associate salary by $15k and laid off associates and non-equity partners. They used to start at $125k when I went through OCI. They don't no more. Do they still offer the $50k interest free loan for down payment on a house? That was pimp.

I learned legal writing from a Honigman attorney, and I learned a lot, totally practical and I'm grateful.