School OCI Data Forum

[worldtraveler]

Boalt has 233 interviewers (including multiple offices) and around 132 unique employers, 20 of which are government or PI.

Guess we have much fewer interviewers than other T14s . . . .

I was under the impression that was only a preliminary list that hasn't been updated since June, although I haven't been paying a ton of attention.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Boalt has 233 interviewers (including multiple offices) and around 132 unique employers, 20 of which are government or PI.

Guess we have much fewer interviewers than other T14s . . . .

Ouch, how many did you have last year?

[el jefe]

This is all great during good economic times, but if you don't want to rely on employers traveling during an economic bust when OCI firms start trimming their list of OCI schools. You certainly don't want to be the worst school on a firm's OCI list. And I guarantee you Notre Dame was often the worst school on many of firm's OCI lists (Barring the stray locals). It shouldn't be insult considering you're probably getting slashed in favor of T-14 schools, but it still hurts.

I wonder if this is the reason why schools like UNC, who used to do very well 4-5 years ago in BIGLAW placement, have all of a sudden fell off...because they are often the worst school on many of the firms OCI lists during these piss poor economic times.

[flcath]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

[Anonymous User]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Pleased to choose ND over Cornell? Why? Only 39 offices are going to OCI. Someone posted that Cornell placed around 40% into 2L SAs, which is bad in the grand scheme of things and bad compared to other t-14s, but a lot better than ND's 5% or whatever. I wouldn't touch a non t-14 ite.

[270910]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Pleased to choose ND over Cornell? Why? Only 39 offices are going to OCI. Someone posted that Cornell placed around 40% into 2L SAs, which is bad in the grand scheme of things and bad compared to other t-14s, but a lot better than ND's 5% or whatever. I wouldn't touch a non t-14 ite.

+1. Cornell is wiping the floor with ND, which has always been true. Still, being debt free is important, and if you wind up top of the class at ND you'll have options.

[Anonymous User]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Pleased to choose ND over Cornell? Why? Only 39 offices are going to OCI. Someone posted that Cornell placed around 40% into 2L SAs, which is bad in the grand scheme of things and bad compared to other t-14s, but a lot better than ND's 5% or whatever. I wouldn't touch a non t-14 ite.

At last count, there were between 220-250 interviewers (including multiple offices) doing Cornell OCIs. (Sorry to be anonymous, but with our school morons sending confidential info to ATL and all, I'm not sure exactly what we can legitimately disclose - I'm hoping posting this is above board.)

I don't know if it was an artifact of this economy, but I know a number of rising 3Ls who generally would have done OCI, but chose instead prestigious PI placements (and these people, due to grades or other factors, probably would have landed SA gigs.) Since the list sent to ATL only listed firm work, these people were not included, but clearly have a decent shot at landing work after graduation - work covered by both Cornell's and the Fed's PI loan-subsidy programs. Also, I think people underestimate the impact of scholarships and self/family-funding: I know of rising 2Ls, including top 1/3 - top 10% GPAs, URMs and non-trads, who aren't doing OCI at all, mainly because they don't feel the financial pressure of getting a BigLaw job.

Outside of PI, there are 34,000 lawyers employed by the federal government, and that number is expected to grow by over 8% by 2018. While 43,000 law grads are being pumped out every year by ABA-accredited schools, only around 4,000 are coming out of the T14. Is the fed gov't immune to engaging in prestige-whoring behaviors? Will fed (and state) hiring agencies preference median grads from T14s over higher GPAs from T2s, 3s and 4s? Don't think we know yet, but I suspect there are plenty of people willing to forgo OCI to find out.

[Anonymous User]

Fordham Early Interview Week (EIW), phase one of our OCI:

We have 125 distinct employers coming, just in our first week. Nearly all are large firms. Counting interview opportunities for separate offices, and the handful asking for patent bar eligible students only, that number climbs to 202+ (working on getting exact figures.)

(Note, this list is accurate as of three weeks ago, when we received paper lists. There have been some very minor additions, and I think one firm pulled out since then, as per email updates, so the picture is still accurate.)

EDIT: Revising to make more accurate/reflect changes.

[Bosque]

Fordham Early Interview Week (EIW), phase one of our OCI:

We have 125 distinct employers coming, just in our first week. Nearly all are large firms. Counting interview opportunities for separate offices, and the handful asking for patent bar eligible students only, that number climbs to 202+ (working on getting exact figures.)

(Note, this list is accurate as of three weeks ago, when we received paper lists. There have been some very minor additions, and I think one firm pulled out since then, as per email updates, so the picture is still accurate.)

EDIT: Revising to make more accurate/reflect changes.

Unfortunately for Fordham though (as I think OS was saying earlier), at least a few of those interviews might be happening just because of where you are located. When all it costs to send someone over for OCI is cab fair, the firms figure "Why Not?", as having more schools to interview at looks better. Also, it always looks better if you are giving the local school a chance, even in New York. They might just be paying lip service and not actually be looking to hire anyone from the school.

Of course, a long shot is better than no shot at all. Just because they are not looking to hire does not mean you cannot impress the pants off of them and change their minds. Not likely to happen, but possible. Hopefully all of this is just speculation however, and thy really do want to employ all of you.

[OperaSoprano]

Fordham Early Interview Week (EIW), phase one of our OCI:

We have 125 distinct employers coming, just in our first week. Nearly all are large firms. Counting interview opportunities for separate offices, and the handful asking for patent bar eligible students only, that number climbs to 202+ (working on getting exact figures.)

(Note, this list is accurate as of three weeks ago, when we received paper lists. There have been some very minor additions, and I think one firm pulled out since then, as per email updates, so the picture is still accurate.)

EDIT: Revising to make more accurate/reflect changes.

Unfortunately for Fordham though (as I think OS was saying earlier), at least a few of those interviews might be happening just because of where you are located. When all it costs to send someone over for OCI is cab fair, the firms figure "Why Not?", as having more schools to interview at looks better. Also, it always looks better if you are giving the local school a chance, even in New York. They might just be paying lip service and not actually be looking to hire anyone from the school.

Of course, a long shot is better than no shot at all. Just because they are not looking to hire does not mean you cannot impress the pants off of them and change their minds. Not likely to happen, but possible. Hopefully all of this is just speculation however, and thy really do want to employ all of you.

This is credited. These numbers are encouraging, though, even if they aren't straight up cause for celebration yet. Make contingency plans, but hope for the best.

[bwv812]

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[Anonymous User]

At last count, there were between 220-250 interviewers (including multiple offices) doing Cornell OCIs. (Sorry to be anonymous, but with our school morons sending confidential info to ATL and all, I'm not sure exactly what we can legitimately disclose - I'm hoping posting this is above board.)

I don't know if it was an artifact of this economy, but I know a number of rising 3Ls who generally would have done OCI, but chose instead prestigious PI placements (and these people, due to grades or other factors, probably would have landed SA gigs.) Since the list sent to ATL only listed firm work, these people were not included, but clearly have a decent shot at landing work after graduation - work covered by both Cornell's and the Fed's PI loan-subsidy programs. Also, I think people underestimate the impact of scholarships and self/family-funding: I know of rising 2Ls, including top 1/3 - top 10% GPAs, URMs and non-trads, who aren't doing OCI at all, mainly because they don't feel the financial pressure of getting a BigLaw job.

Outside of PI, there are 34,000 lawyers employed by the federal government, and that number is expected to grow by over 8% by 2018. While 43,000 law grads are being pumped out every year by ABA-accredited schools, only around 4,000 are coming out of the T14. Is the fed gov't immune to engaging in prestige-whoring behaviors? Will fed (and state) hiring agencies preference median grads from T14s over higher GPAs from T2s, 3s and 4s? Don't think we know yet, but I suspect there are plenty of people willing to forgo OCI to find out.

Why would people forego OCI to find out if the fed might hire them? What else are they going to do 2L summer, and what do they think they're going to do if a fed job doesn't pan out?

Unless the Cornell student body has suddenly become PI/gov focused in a way it hasn't historically been, your arguments don't mean a heck of a lot.

I wasn't arguing anything: I merely stated that I know of a number of 3Ls who didn't do OCI last year, and a number of 2Ls who don't plan on doing it this year. Most of those 2Ls won't have a full debt-load when they graduate, due to either self-funding or scholarships - perhaps this is making them more willing to forgo BigLaw to take a chance on PI/gov opportunities.

[KMaine]

Will echo the above about Cornell in that I know of people who would be very competitive (perhaps slam-dunks) for SA positions are simply not interested. I also know a 3L who chose PI and seems like he would have been a lock for SA. Even if that puts potential SA numbers near 50% (it was also noted elsewhere that some rising 3L's have chosen not to be on the leaked confidential list) Cornell is certainly a gamble. But as someone who chose Cornell over ND, I would do it again in a heartbeat. Am not at all sure I would be high enough in the class at ND to be competitive for SA. If you want BigLaw, ND is not the way to go.

[ArtVandelay]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Chose ND over Georgetown for the same reason. I would much rather have no debt and no job than six-figure debt and no job. I'll see you in the fall! If I had gotten any money at Georgetown or less than 50% scholarship at ND, I probably would have made a different choice.

[Anonymous User]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Pleased to choose ND over Cornell? Why? Only 39 offices are going to OCI. Someone posted that Cornell placed around 40% into 2L SAs, which is bad in the grand scheme of things and bad compared to other t-14s, but a lot better than ND's 5% or whatever. I wouldn't touch a non t-14 ite.

At last count, there were between 220-250 interviewers (including multiple offices) doing Cornell OCIs. (Sorry to be anonymous, but with our school morons sending confidential info to ATL and all, I'm not sure exactly what we can legitimately disclose - I'm hoping posting this is above board.)

I don't know if it was an artifact of this economy, but I know a number of rising 3Ls who generally would have done OCI, but chose instead prestigious PI placements (and these people, due to grades or other factors, probably would have landed SA gigs.) Since the list sent to ATL only listed firm work, these people were not included, but clearly have a decent shot at landing work after graduation - work covered by both Cornell's and the Fed's PI loan-subsidy programs. Also, I think people underestimate the impact of scholarships and self/family-funding: I know of rising 2Ls, including top 1/3 - top 10% GPAs, URMs and non-trads, who aren't doing OCI at all, mainly because they don't feel the financial pressure of getting a BigLaw job.

Outside of PI, there are 34,000 lawyers employed by the federal government, and that number is expected to grow by over 8% by 2018. While 43,000 law grads are being pumped out every year by ABA-accredited schools, only around 4,000 are coming out of the T14. Is the fed gov't immune to engaging in prestige-whoring behaviors? Will fed (and state) hiring agencies preference median grads from T14s over higher GPAs from T2s, 3s and 4s? Don't think we know yet, but I suspect there are plenty of people willing to forgo OCI to find out.

Ok. So you know a couple people forgoing OCI, but Cornell has never been PI-focused and historically sends very few percentage-wise into PI and fed gov. relative to other t-14 like Berkeley, NYU, and Michigan. I hope other t-14 students don't use this "PI'gov-focus" excuse to justify OCI placement, even at the aforementioned schools.

[flcath]

This thread seriously sent me into a minor depression. I have since recovered.

I am actually now pleased to have chosen ND over Cornell (though just out of curiosity, anyone know what their OCI figures are?), as I will have very minimal debt and will thus be free to pursue my backup plan.

If I can't get a job I will seriously just do a year of post-bacc work at a state school and then go to med school. I have all the appropriate credentials, provided I did well in the aforementioned post-bacc.

I cannot believe THIS is the option that offers me the most solace... as a rising 1L.

Pleased to choose ND over Cornell? Why?

Debt free. I am not kidding in even the slightest bit about the med thing, and debt would preclude that option. I had a 34 MCAT too, and I could prep that shit up to a 38 if I really tried. Obviously the thought of getting stuck being a FM or Peds doc sucks, but at least in that scenario I have a job.

[jay115]

UCLA has total of 163 employers participating at the moment (didnt feel like counting the total offices), about 15-20 seem to just be resume collection, although some note that they will also interview during the early period.

163 distinct employers? NALP (if I'm reading the site's data correctly) lists 301 corporate offices for UCLA, but the list obviously includes multiple offices. I know UCLA has over 400 kids/class, and 400 - 163 = not a good time.

Edit: Right, well there are also PI, clerkships, and multiple SAs for one firm, but still...

[blsingindisguise]

I know some of you are probably the same people who as 0Ls made unfounded, overoptimistic predictions about recovery and improvement and how you missed the eye of the hurricane or whatever. The people who were trying to warn you were all doom and gloom. They were "escapees from jdunderground" or whatever. And yet now you guys are going to wind up trying to warn other people in vain and the seasons they go round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down. We're captured in a carousel of time. We can't return we can only look behind from where we came and go round and round and round in the circle game.

[lawhawk]

I know some of you are probably the same people who as 0Ls made unfounded, overoptimistic predictions about recovery and improvement and how you missed the eye of the hurricane or whatever. The people who were trying to warn you were all doom and gloom. They were "escapees from jdunderground" or whatever. And yet now you guys are going to wind up trying to warn other people in vain and the seasons they go round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down. We're captured in a carousel of time. We can't return we can only look behind from where we came and go round and round and round in the circle game.

deep, man.

[dresden doll]

At last count, there were between 220-250 interviewers (including multiple offices) doing Cornell OCIs. (Sorry to be anonymous, but with our school morons sending confidential info to ATL and all, I'm not sure exactly what we can legitimately disclose - I'm hoping posting this is above board.)

Does the confidential info you refer to include the 86/200 stat? I honestly do think that such figures should be made public. In fact, I'd be happy to announce my school's as soon as they are out.

[jay115]

I know some of you are probably the same people who as 0Ls made unfounded, overoptimistic predictions about recovery and improvement and how you missed the eye of the hurricane or whatever. The people who were trying to warn you were all doom and gloom. They were "escapees from jdunderground" or whatever. And yet now you guys are going to wind up trying to warn other people in vain and the seasons they go round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down. We're captured in a carousel of time. We can't return we can only look behind from where we came and go round and round and round in the circle game.

Eh, even though UCLA isn't a vaunted T14 or indeed has anything that could reasonably be called a competitive OCI, I don't regret choosing law school. I'm not fixated on a biglaw job, and I know the economy is rough for all industries. Back at my UG, econ majors who would have usually had their pick at the top consulting and banking firms either had to apply to law school or choose a less prestigious econ-related job, and engineering majors who in the past have always all had jobs suddenly have had to compete with one another for a smaller number of positions.

We call can't be health care professionals, so I just personally disagree with that those who constantly harp against law school on this forum.

[Anonymous User]

Vandy only has about 80 unique employers coming. Much more are doing the resume collection thing (which I don't know much about, but doesn't bode well). Gulp.

[holydonkey]

Vandy only has about 80 unique employers coming. Much more are doing the resume collection thing (which I don't know much about, but doesn't bode well). Gulp.

Wow. That really sucks...with Vandy's 'recent-ish' employment stats from NLJ250, I figured they'd have better luck than WUSTL. Guess not.

[lawhawk]

Vandy only has about 80 unique employers coming. Much more are doing the resume collection thing (which I don't know much about, but doesn't bode well). Gulp.

Wow. That really sucks...with Vandy's 'recent-ish' employment stats from NLJ250, I figured they'd have better luck than WUSTL. Guess not.

Crazy that 2 lsat points will get you double the number of unique employers coming to your law school (Vandy vs Notre Dame). I guess the difference between t14, t,20, and t25 really is that big of a deal...

And both schools have very similar first year class sizes.