2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:50 pm
When people say they "billed" a certain amount, what are you counting in that calculation? Do you include just billable work to a client? Do you add pro-bono? What about non-billable but firm related (like CLEs, interviews, etc.)?
"Billed" to me means go out to a client. I'm the guy above who said I "bill" 1950 - 2200 per year for the last 10 years. Those are billable client hours.

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:19 pm
I'm done worrying about this. The scale is set at this point. The matches are rolling in and nobody seems eager to go one up. I don't recall a re-raise ever coming two weeks later, or even a week and a half later (perhaps somebody will tell me I'm wrong on this). LAAAAAME.
Not sure I agree that the “matches are rolling in.” Cravath announced and Cleary matched. I’m otherwise not aware of any of the major players (DPW, S&C, STB, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Debevoise, Weil, Milbank, Willkie, Latham) announcing. With all due respect to DLA Piper and Cadwalader, I’m frankly not sure anyone cares what they do as it has no impact on the market.

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:51 pm

peoplearehungry wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:54 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Mayer Brown match. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/mayer-brown-bonus/

The fact that ATL beat us to it and that the (off marketly high, 2200 iirc) hours threshold is seemingly very purposefully scrolled just out of view, I think the firm itself obviously fed it to them
2200 to even get a bonus sounds ridiculous and unreasonable.
For Mayer Brown's US offices outside of New York, you get market bonus at 2,000 hours and above-market bonus at 2100/2200/2300. The minimum hours threshold for the New York office is lower (1800? 1900? not 100% sure), but the trade-off is that there is no opportunity to get above-market bonus in the New York office.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:51 pm
peoplearehungry wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:54 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Mayer Brown match. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/mayer-brown-bonus/

The fact that ATL beat us to it and that the (off marketly high, 2200 iirc) hours threshold is seemingly very purposefully scrolled just out of view, I think the firm itself obviously fed it to them
2200 to even get a bonus sounds ridiculous and unreasonable.
For Mayer Brown's US offices outside of New York, you get market bonus at 2,000 hours and above-market bonus at 2100/2200/2300. The minimum hours threshold for the New York office is lower (1800? 1900? not 100% sure), but the trade-off is that there is no opportunity to get above-market bonus in the New York office.
That seems like a very odd and overly-complicated system, frankly.

Moneytrees

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Moneytrees » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:51 pm
peoplearehungry wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:54 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Mayer Brown match. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/mayer-brown-bonus/

The fact that ATL beat us to it and that the (off marketly high, 2200 iirc) hours threshold is seemingly very purposefully scrolled just out of view, I think the firm itself obviously fed it to them
2200 to even get a bonus sounds ridiculous and unreasonable.
For Mayer Brown's US offices outside of New York, you get market bonus at 2,000 hours and above-market bonus at 2100/2200/2300. The minimum hours threshold for the New York office is lower (1800? 1900? not 100% sure), but the trade-off is that there is no opportunity to get above-market bonus in the New York office.
That seems like a very odd and overly-complicated system, frankly.
In New York, MB's minimum threshold for the bonus is 1900 billable hours.

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Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:48 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:50 pm
When people say they "billed" a certain amount, what are you counting in that calculation? Do you include just billable work to a client? Do you add pro-bono? What about non-billable but firm related (like CLEs, interviews, etc.)?
"Billed" to me means go out to a client. I'm the guy above who said I "bill" 1950 - 2200 per year for the last 10 years. Those are billable client hours.
Do hours worked on client matter but then marked down count as billed?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:51 pm
peoplearehungry wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:54 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Mayer Brown match. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/mayer-brown-bonus/

The fact that ATL beat us to it and that the (off marketly high, 2200 iirc) hours threshold is seemingly very purposefully scrolled just out of view, I think the firm itself obviously fed it to them
2200 to even get a bonus sounds ridiculous and unreasonable.
For Mayer Brown's US offices outside of New York, you get market bonus at 2,000 hours and above-market bonus at 2100/2200/2300. The minimum hours threshold for the New York office is lower (1800? 1900? not 100% sure), but the trade-off is that there is no opportunity to get above-market bonus in the New York office.
That seems like a very odd and overly-complicated system, frankly.
It’s odd in the sense that most others don’t do it, but it’s nice because MB pays more than peers if you work more than 2100 hours. It works out to about a 15% increase above market for 2100 hours, 20% above market for 2200 hours, and 30% above market for 2300 hours.

I guess other firms retain the ability to award above market bonuses via “discretionary” unstated numbers or based on partner reviews or whatever, but it’s much better to have a matrix that tells you X hours equals X amount above market

LawMaster97

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by LawMaster97 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:39 pm

topherdane wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:09 pm
LawMaster97 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:52 am
Oh, and to stay on topic, DPW will announce a moderate increase to the scale and special spring bonuses tomorrow afternoon. Enjoy!
What time this afternoon specifically?

I'm shocked that this seemingly confident assertion of fact isn't gathering more attention here.
Because he said something similar two weeks ago that was dead wrong.
My crystal ball is damaged but not destroyed. DPW will announce an increase to the scale and spring bonuses sometime before the end of 2021. Do not give up hope!

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:51 pm
peoplearehungry wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:54 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Mayer Brown match. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/mayer-brown-bonus/

The fact that ATL beat us to it and that the (off marketly high, 2200 iirc) hours threshold is seemingly very purposefully scrolled just out of view, I think the firm itself obviously fed it to them
2200 to even get a bonus sounds ridiculous and unreasonable.
For Mayer Brown's US offices outside of New York, you get market bonus at 2,000 hours and above-market bonus at 2100/2200/2300. The minimum hours threshold for the New York office is lower (1800? 1900? not 100% sure), but the trade-off is that there is no opportunity to get above-market bonus in the New York office.
That seems like a very odd and overly-complicated system, frankly.
It’s odd in the sense that most others don’t do it, but it’s nice because MB pays more than peers if you work more than 2100 hours. It works out to about a 15% increase above market for 2100 hours, 20% above market for 2200 hours, and 30% above market for 2300 hours.

I guess other firms retain the ability to award above market bonuses via “discretionary” unstated numbers or based on partner reviews or whatever, but it’s much better to have a matrix that tells you X hours equals X amount above market
Not op on the "odd" comment, but I think "odd" was meant more in the sense that this scheme applies to all offices except New York. This strikes me as odd because it means that associates in New York, where cost of living is high and (rightly or wrongly) associates are sometimes perceived as working longer hours than in some other markets, make less than their counterparts in, say, Houston (without even taking into account COL differences).

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:19 pm
I'm done worrying about this. The scale is set at this point. The matches are rolling in and nobody seems eager to go one up. I don't recall a re-raise ever coming two weeks later, or even a week and a half later (perhaps somebody will tell me I'm wrong on this). LAAAAAME.
Matches are not rolling in at all...this is the slowest series of matches I've ever seen. We also have yet to see a match from a firm that I would consider a realistic threat to come over the top (DPW, Milbank, Simpson).

And annual bonus raises are rare. I'm not sure we have precedent this millennium of a bonus raise the Monday before Thanksgiving (which could reasonably be expected to delay any re-raise), so there really isn't precedent here to say that a re-raise is out of the question.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:04 pm

Hogan Lovells matched the Cravath scale.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 pm

@ATL Senior Editor: wtf?! Seriously you are acting like we should be thrilled that they are throwing us the scraps off Cravath’s table. Your glorification of their lacktastic, scroogelike “bonus” scale is pathetic. Almost as pathetic as the scale itself. Do everyone a favor, post something we’re all thinking today: Hogan, DLA, and MB are bullshit followers hoping no firm ups the ante.

For that matter, MB is cheap as fuck. For anyone wondering, they don’t give market plus bonuses in NY because everyone would get them. This way the cheapskate partners can pretend they’re being more of a lifestyle firm for summers who’re weighing their options. Meanwhile offices in other markets are slower and fewer people can hit those hours. Reduces actual money spent on bonuses while creating the illusion of superior bonuses.

Also, anyone else think this prolonged bonus rollout has people wondering “when will I get paid” instead of wondering “should I say fuck this, I’m out.” Like a kind of a weak ass retention ploy to prevent people who are unsure of leaving from leaving?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:38 pm
Dear ATL, no we do not want all the firms to match Cravath. The Cravath scale is garbage, much like your site. Please make yourself somewhat useful and write an article stating partners should not be selfish and should pay us all more. Thanks.
This

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 pm
@ATL Senior Editor: wtf?! Seriously you are acting like we should be thrilled that they are throwing us the scraps off Cravath’s table. Your glorification of their lacktastic, scroogelike “bonus” scale is pathetic. Almost as pathetic as the scale itself. Do everyone a favor, post something we’re all thinking today: Hogan, DLA, and MB are bullshit followers hoping no firm ups the ante.

For that matter, MB is cheap as fuck. For anyone wondering, they don’t give market plus bonuses in NY because everyone would get them. This way the cheapskate partners can pretend they’re being more of a lifestyle firm for summers who’re weighing their options. Meanwhile offices in other markets are slower and fewer people can hit those hours. Reduces actual money spent on bonuses while creating the illusion of superior bonuses.

Also, anyone else think this prolonged bonus rollout has people wondering “when will I get paid” instead of wondering “should I say fuck this, I’m out.” Like a kind of a weak ass retention ploy to prevent people who are unsure of leaving from leaving?
Thank you. Can we all stop giving those morons clicks until they at least somewhat acknowledge the reality?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:59 pm

I thought today was the day Milbank's committee met? and the day everyone said something would happen from one of the MARKET LEADERS. idk why i even care, another 20 grand post-tax would make me feel good for like a day or two max


JusticeJackson

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by JusticeJackson » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 am

I hate ATL with all of my heart but I give them at least 5 clicks every day I’m in the office because it’s something to do while zoning out on bullshit calls that I’m not sure why I’m on in the first place.

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:58 am

Reddit poll (r/biglaw) currently has “no raise” slightly more likely than “yes raise.”

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:12 am

Davis Polk just announced ... that it was named law firm of the year. Thanks for your hard work everybody

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:12 am
Davis Polk just announced ... that it was named law firm of the year. Thanks for your hard work everybody
Cannot believe Neil actually sent an email starting with "All – I am very pleased to share that" . . .

This is trolling

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Definitely Not North

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Definitely Not North » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 am

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

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clone22

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by clone22 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:08 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 am
You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift
I have not filled out a Vault survey in years, but this year I will be looking forward to ranking CravaTTTh as the lowest ranking firm that the survey allows, and I encourage everyone to do the same.

They were cool back in the 19th century when they helped America purchase Alaska, but it's been a slow downhill slide ever since (why is this bit of trivia that I learned for OCI still occupying valuable storage space in my brain?).

almostperfectt

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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by almostperfectt » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:25 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 am
You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift
Cravath partners everywhere in shambles

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 am
You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift
I'm convinced this is why DPW is waiting this long. This shows everyone that no one cares what CSM does, they're going to wait for the real market leader to move. And now that it has been established DPW can finally announce the new market scale!! Please???

What are the chances they announce on a Friday? Honestly if they wait til Monday - that would suck but real power move .. full 2 weeks after CSM

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 End of Year Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:29 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 am
You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift
Yup. Partner at my v50 in an offhand comment "whatever the market bonus ends up being".

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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