Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

These rumors are a little silly. The partners at my v100 have already acknowledged privately to us that they are matching. It would be unbelievable if higher ranked firms didn’t match.

What V100? Since partners have privately acknowledged to presumably many people (based on your post). Stop these if you're not willing to reveal the name of the firm when it's at no cost to you. It would be different if one person had a conversation with just you.

[Anonymous User]

Surprised people didn't mock Morgan Lewis for matching but the new amount is only effective starting in April?

But they’re still doing a retroactive true-up in the form of a bonus, at least according to ATL. So there’s no $ loss—just delay.

[Anonymous User]

Surprised people didn't mock Morgan Lewis for matching but the new amount is only effective starting in April?

But they’re still doing a retroactive true-up in the form of a bonus, at least according to ATL. So there’s no $ loss—just delay.

Time value of money my friend, especially the inflation going on

[Anonymous User]

As a former WH person, I’m not understanding all these weird jabs at Wilmer. I get that it’s not on the same level as the super profitable firms, but it’s still a V20 that has historically had strong RPL/PPP numbers (single tier partnership, so PPP is lower than some peers). And while it’s no corporate powerhouse, there are many people who turn down some of the firms being thrown out here for litigation.

Comparing it to the likes of DLA is weird, and saying that someone may choose Wilmer over Goodwin if Wilmer pays more makes no sense because people regularly choose Wilmer over Goodwin as is.

Can someone explain all the WH hate on here?

[ExpOriental]

As a former WH person, I’m not understanding all these weird jabs at Wilmer. I get that it’s not on the same level as the super profitable firms, but it’s still a V20 that has historically had strong RPL/PPP numbers (single tier partnership, so PPP is lower than some peers). And while it’s no corporate powerhouse, there are many people who turn down some of the firms being thrown out here for litigation.

Comparing it to the likes of DLA is weird, and saying that someone may choose Wilmer over Goodwin if Wilmer pays more makes no sense because people regularly choose Wilmer over Goodwin as is.

Can someone explain all the WH hate on here?

You misread that post. No one is ripping on Wilmer.

And yes, choosing a firm like Wilmer over, say, DPW makes sense for plenty of people even assuming identical comp. That's kind of the point; if Wilmer pays more than DPW, then Wilmer becomes a no brainer.

For what it's worth, I also think that's true of DLA. All of these firms are far more fungible than most people here realize or care to admit.

Edit: and the people suggesting otherwise are presumably the type who have a lot of their self worth wrapped up in Vault ranking.

[Anonymous User]

As a former WH person, I’m not understanding all these weird jabs at Wilmer. I get that it’s not on the same level as the super profitable firms, but it’s still a V20 that has historically had strong RPL/PPP numbers (single tier partnership, so PPP is lower than some peers). And while it’s no corporate powerhouse, there are many people who turn down some of the firms being thrown out here for litigation.

Comparing it to the likes of DLA is weird, and saying that someone may choose Wilmer over Goodwin if Wilmer pays more makes no sense because people regularly choose Wilmer over Goodwin as is.

Can someone explain all the WH hate on here?

You misread that post. No one is ripping on Wilmer.

Yeah. Don't you know the only firm that TLS allows people to hate on is K&E?

[Anonymous User]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum.

[Anonymous User]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum.

You must be new here

[Anonymous User]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

Whatever man. We're talking about law firms that matter, American firms.

No one cares whatever is left of the "Magic Circle" pays, or that Canadian "Bay Street" associates make half of US-market doing basically the same work, etc.

[Anonymous User]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

Whatever man. We're talking about law firms that matter, American firms.

No one cares whatever is left of the "Magic Circle" pays, or that Canadian "Bay Street" associates make half of US-market doing basically the same work, etc.

Isn't it relevant that in those places you basically start work as a lawyer straight out of undergrad with 0 debt?

[Anonymous User]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

Whatever man. We're talking about law firms that matter, American firms.

No one cares whatever is left of the "Magic Circle" pays, or that Canadian "Bay Street" associates make half of US-market doing basically the same work, etc.

Isn't it relevant that in those places you basically start work as a lawyer straight out of undergrad with 0 debt?

Definitely not in Canada. Same as US - 4 year undergrad w/ 3 yr law school. That said, both are much cheaper - but lots of classmates still had $100k+ debt and our starting salary out of school was 65k at the time.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

How has taken the V10 so long to figure this out? They don’t need to play this game. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and read the comments section on Legalcheek. The top UK magic circle firms are paying less by class level in the magnitude of $100,000s, and it has no effect at all on their recruitment or retention. People will join or stay because of training, partnership/counsel pay packets (if they are chasing it), and brand name. It also helps the firm to market to clients; nobody wants to pay six figures for green associates. If anybody were to leave because of this, it is unlikely they are the star performers.

Whatever man. We're talking about law firms that matter, American firms.

No one cares whatever is left of the "Magic Circle" pays, or that Canadian "Bay Street" associates make half of US-market doing basically the same work, etc.

Isn't it relevant that in those places you basically start work as a lawyer straight out of undergrad with 0 debt?

Yes, it's relevant to why we shouldn't compare CAN/UK salaries to US salaries

[njdevils2626]

Surprised people didn't mock Morgan Lewis for matching but the new amount is only effective starting in April?

But they’re still doing a retroactive true-up in the form of a bonus, at least according to ATL. So there’s no $ loss—just delay.

Time value of money my friend, especially the inflation going on

The time value of ~$5,000 over 3 months is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares

[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry I just find this whole thing insane at this point (and TLS seems like it's going insane on top of it). I'm trying but failing to comprehend what's going on. Whatever DPW wanted to do--match, re-raise, announce bonuses, resolve some horrible internal bickering--three weeks should have been more than enough time to do it.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry I just find this whole thing insane at this point (and TLS seems like it's going insane on top of it). I'm trying but failing to comprehend what's going on. Whatever DPW wanted to do--match, re-raise, announce bonuses, resolve some horrible internal bickering--three weeks should have been more than enough time to do it.

It's time for other* firms to just quietly match and let DPW be below market.

*my

[blair.waldorf]

Clearly the wait is making everyone on this thread insane

[Anonymous User]

"This is the most fun I've had since we had an old fashioned hole digging. By God, it's been a while."

- John Lambert Cadwalader

[Anonymous User]

No posts in nearly an hour. We're broken. The terrorists have won.

[bigbeau]

Surprised people didn't mock Morgan Lewis for matching but the new amount is only effective starting in April?

But they’re still doing a retroactive true-up in the form of a bonus, at least according to ATL. So there’s no $ loss—just delay.

Time value of money my friend, especially the inflation going on

The time value of ~$5,000 over 3 months is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares

So assuming its a $20k raise, 3 months salary is $5000. Posttax at any senior making enough to get that 20k is taxed at 37%+ so $3150 post tax. Then 7% inflation over TWO months, because the match happened end of January, so that first month extra was already behind, is 1.17%, which it's really compounding which would make it even less, so lets say 1%. So, damn...they're losing ~$31.50 in time value of money. What will they do?

edit: not even to mention that the bonus isn't moving from Jan 31 to April, it's moving out of the paychecks so you have to do actual math that I knew once upon a time to find out how little money that is.

[Anonymous User]

"This is the most fun I've had since we had an old fashioned hole digging. By God, it's been a while."

- John Lambert Cadwalader

Can we just exchange J.L. Cadwalader quotes and Neil Barr fanfic until the re-raise happens? The #analysis and bickering is awful.

[Anonymous User]

These rumors are a little silly. The partners at my v100 have already acknowledged privately to us that they are matching. It would be unbelievable if higher ranked firms didn’t match.

What V100? Since partners have privately acknowledged to presumably many people (based on your post). Stop these if you're not willing to reveal the name of the firm when it's at no cost to you. It would be different if one person had a conversation with just you.

I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I’m a KE associate and briefly chatted with an SP about the Milbank raises the week they happened. He offhandedly said “yeah of course we’ll just match whatever the market ends up being” like it was obvious. This SP is not on the comp committee but is relatively powerful.

The people here saying KE (or any of the other V10s) won’t match are just silly and obvious trolls.

[Anonymous User]

I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I’m a KE associate and briefly chatted with an SP about the Milbank raises the week they happened. He offhandedly said “yeah of course we’ll just match whatever the market ends up being” like it was obvious. This SP is not on the comp committee but is relatively powerful.

The people here saying KE (or any of the other V10s) won’t match are just silly and obvious trolls.

Frankly, K&E hasn't seen y/o/y PEP grow by 70% in literally a decade so I'm not sure why you think you deserve the same salary as the heirs to the J.L.C. fortune.

[Anonymous User]

I dont know that people (lawyers especially) appreciate the power of inflation over time

215k today is worth less than 160k in 2007

hours billed and inflation-adjusted law school tuition are both up

the size of the legal industry is also up; the size of the T14 talent pool not as much

It would not be crazy, not at all, for compensation to normalize at a level above current

[Anonymous User]

[tlsthrowaway1306]

This is the content I crave