ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012) Forum

[The Duck]

Question regarding 3LOLOLOCI: I have zero desire to do it and my firm gives offers well before OCI starts. However, I know that bidding ends prior to offers. Should I just not bother even with bidding? I already have a pretty solid back-up plan if I get no-offered.

Can't you just bid and withdraw? Do that.

Not sure if I can do that (haven't checked on the procedures, and I swear I remember something as a 2L where if you're assigned an interview slot you're "strongly encouraged" to go, but maybe it's different for 2L's). If I can, I probably will considering it will take me all of an hour max.

Michigan instituted a monetary fine for skipping but when I called and asked about this they advised strongly to bid. They just said to email and they would cancel my entire schedule if I get an offer I intended to accept prior to OCI. Apparently, they are really only worried about no-shows without notice.

[Anonymous User]

Should I do 3L OCI?

I'm at DPW, got an excellent mid-summer review, but have been fairly slow all summer. Only been on 8 matters, some of which have been one-off diligence things.

So the question is should I bid on firms for 3L OCI as an insurance policy or not? Or are we all definitely getting offers?

DPW gives everyone offers, and did so every year during the recession. It doesn't hurt to do 3L OCI, but the economy certainly isn't worse than it was summer of 2009. Beyond that, 8 matters as a summer isn't super low. I think I did 12 all told, and I had a "thick review file" according to my exit reviewer (we were super busy the first half, not so busy the second half).

[TTH]

Should I do 3L OCI?

I'm at DPW, got an excellent mid-summer review, but have been fairly slow all summer. Only been on 8 matters, some of which have been one-off diligence things.

So the question is should I bid on firms for 3L OCI as an insurance policy or not? Or are we all definitely getting offers?

DPW gives everyone offers, and did so every year during the recession. It doesn't hurt to do 3L OCI, but the economy certainly isn't worse than it was summer of 2009. Beyond that, 8 matters as a summer isn't super low. I think I did 12 all told, and I had a "thick review file" according to my exit reviewer (we were super busy the first half, not so busy the second half).

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. Even if they're slow, DPW can just print some more money to pay you with.


For the 3L LOLCI res, are you guys being specific or general with regard to what you've done?

i.e.

• Drafted a variety of pleadings and transactional documents for a variety of matters.

or

• Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial.

[rad lulz]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

[Anonymous User]

In 3LOLCI and Massmail, can we trust that the recruiters will NOT go call their buddy at our current SA firm and say, "Hey, did you know that your current summer just sent in an application to my firm?" ?

This worries me since any whiff of applications is probably good ground for a no-offer.

[Anonymous User]

In 3LOLCI and Massmail, can we trust that the recruiters will NOT go call their buddy at our current SA firm and say, "Hey, did you know that your current summer just sent in an application to my firm?" ?

This worries me since any whiff of applications is probably good ground for a no-offer.

I'm also wondering this/when it's appropriate to start mass mailing? Particularly if it's just because of wanting a different city and/or practice area...

[Holly Golightly]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

[rad lulz]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

Guy is working at a midsize firm. Could be true for a small matter.

[Holly Golightly]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

Guy is working at a midsize firm. Could be true for a small matter.

Without edits? Not a chance. Also, let's think for a minute about how long COA decisions take.

[The Duck]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

Guy is working at a midsize firm. Could be true for a small matter.

Without edits? Not a chance. Also, let's think for a minute about how long COA decisions take.

Maybe a loser appeal with summary affirmation of the trial court from the record on a non-contentious issue? Just because briefs are submitted doesn't mean oral argument, etc. Also, could have been pro bono, etc.

[attractive_NUisance]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

Guy is working at a midsize firm. Could be true for a small matter.

Without edits? Not a chance. Also, let's think for a minute about how long COA decisions take.

I think the quoted passage was meant to be a hypothetical example for the level of specificity to include in a resume bullet.

Personally, I would err on the side of being more general.

[Anonymous User]

What if all I've done is draft memoranda on narrow points of law?

There is absolutely no way "Drafted an appellate brief that was filed with the Court of Appeals without revision, resulting in the court affirming the grant of summary judgment obtained at trial" is true.

Guy is working at a midsize firm. Could be true for a small matter.

Without edits? Not a chance. Also, let's think for a minute about how long COA decisions take.

It's actually very possible. I did something very similar during my 1L summer (I'm not the OP that asked the question). An attorney had a matter on appeal and asked me to do the appellate brief. I worked on the brief for a while and handed it to him after I proofed and reviewed it for a full day, and he turned around and had his paralegal file it with the COA without changing a thing. As Rad said, it was a small firm (~20 attorneys), so I'm sure that made a big difference.

Also, as to your point about the COA decision timeline, you're right. After the case was filed in July, I kept up with it until a decision was made in February if I remember correctly. However, if it's a slam dunk decision, I could see the COA having a much quicker turnaround.

[Anonymous User]

In 3LOLCI and Massmail, can we trust that the recruiters will NOT go call their buddy at our current SA firm and say, "Hey, did you know that your current summer just sent in an application to my firm?" ?

This worries me since any whiff of applications is probably good ground for a no-offer.

I'm also wondering this/when it's appropriate to start mass mailing? Particularly if it's just because of wanting a different city and/or practice area...

I'm a 1L and have a SA. I just mass mailed each of the big firms in the same market that im SA. I don't think that's it's a grounds to get no-offered. Firms know you want as many options as possible. From my perspective, you shoot yourself in the foot if you don't

[de5igual]

In 3LOLCI and Massmail, can we trust that the recruiters will NOT go call their buddy at our current SA firm and say, "Hey, did you know that your current summer just sent in an application to my firm?" ?

This worries me since any whiff of applications is probably good ground for a no-offer.

I'm also wondering this/when it's appropriate to start mass mailing? Particularly if it's just because of wanting a different city and/or practice area...

I'm a 1L and have a SA. I just mass mailed each of the big firms in the same market that im SA. I don't think that's it's a grounds to get no-offered. Firms know you want as many options as possible. From my perspective, you shoot yourself in the foot if you don't

This is one of those instances where a 1L SA =/= 2L SA. Firms expect and encourage 1Ls to split their 2L summers while a 2L summer is basically a commitment to the firm.

[09042014]

In 3LOLCI and Massmail, can we trust that the recruiters will NOT go call their buddy at our current SA firm and say, "Hey, did you know that your current summer just sent in an application to my firm?" ?

This worries me since any whiff of applications is probably good ground for a no-offer.

I'm also wondering this/when it's appropriate to start mass mailing? Particularly if it's just because of wanting a different city and/or practice area...

I'm a 1L and have a SA. I just mass mailed each of the big firms in the same market that im SA. I don't think that's it's a grounds to get no-offered. Firms know you want as many options as possible. From my perspective, you shoot yourself in the foot if you don't

This is one of those instances where a 1L SA =/= 2L SA. Firms expect and encourage 1Ls to split their 2L summers while a 2L summer is basically a commitment to the firm.

Until they give you an offer for full time, it is not a commitment. I'd be shocked if a firm no-offered someone for looking before offers were made.

[Anonymous User]

I'm like 70% certain my firm doesn't have enough business to make me an offer at the end of the summer, and a 2L grade swoon is gonna make it almost impossible to get anything comparable.

Fuck. My. World.

[rad lulz]

I'm like 70% certain my firm doesn't have enough business to make me an offer at the end of the summer, and a 2L grade swoon is gonna make it almost impossible to get anything comparable.

Fuck. My. World.

How do you know. Please describe this situation, brother. And my sympathy.

[los blancos]

I'm like 70% certain my firm doesn't have enough business to make me an offer at the end of the summer, and a 2L grade swoon is gonna make it almost impossible to get anything comparable.

Fuck. My. World.

I'm worried about this too, though my worries may be completely unfounded.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who sometimes feels as if he isn't doing as well as others, this is how I often feel:

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you;
Weep, and you weep alone."

[monkey85]

I'm like 70% certain my firm doesn't have enough business to make me an offer at the end of the summer, and a 2L grade swoon is gonna make it almost impossible to get anything comparable.

Fuck. My. World.

I'm worried about this too, though my worries may be completely unfounded.

We don't have to just look at our firm. The global economy kind of STINKS right now. It makes it scary when your firms major practice groups are focused on M&A, PE, Cap Markets, Hedge Funds. Even the historically continuous business of Investment Management is in jeopardy when the funds tank, merge, and your firm's client gets acquired so that you no longer have a Board to advise.

With that having been said - almost time for final reviews!

[Anonymous User]

For some reasons, mostly lack of attention to detail on one or two assignments (stupid grammar and spelling errors) which in large part were due to not having sufficient time to edit because of summer associate programming (Yes, this is weak; but it's also true, these do take away significant work time which can hurt on assignments with short deadlines) and being late for a summer associate meeting at one point, I am almost positive I will be no offered. Can anyone bros sympathize? I feel like everyone at my firm is totally on top of their shit. It's really an unfortunate situation ITE.

[Anonymous User]

For some reasons, mostly lack of attention to detail on one or two assignments (stupid grammar and spelling errors) which in large part were due to not having sufficient time to edit because of summer associate programming (Yes, this is weak; but it's also true, these do take away significant work time which can hurt on assignments with short deadlines) and being late for a summer associate meeting at one point, I am almost positive I will be no offered. Can anyone bros sympathize? I feel like everyone at my firm is totally on top of their shit. It's really an unfortunate situation ITE.

Have they said anything to you about the lack of attention to detail? Did they bring it up in your midsummer review or anything? This sounds like pretty minor stuff to get no offered for

[romothesavior]

For some reasons, mostly lack of attention to detail on one or two assignments (stupid grammar and spelling errors) which in large part were due to not having sufficient time to edit because of summer associate programming (Yes, this is weak; but it's also true, these do take away significant work time which can hurt on assignments with short deadlines) and being late for a summer associate meeting at one point, I am almost positive I will be no offered. Can anyone bros sympathize? I feel like everyone at my firm is totally on top of their shit. It's really an unfortunate situation ITE.

Have they said anything to you about the lack of attention to detail? Did they bring it up in your midsummer review or anything? This sounds like pretty minor stuff to get no offered for

I agree. Unless you are being told to get your shit together, I'd imagine you're fine. Even if an attorney told you about a typo or something during one-on-one feedback, a lot of them wouldn't knock you for it in evals. These sound like minor things as long as they are infrequent and handled appropriately. At this point, no use in worrying about it. Just finish strong and hope your firm isn't too anal.

[09042014]

Lol at any bitchmade associate or partner who gets angry over a small number of grammar errors. It's a sign of a small mind.

[GeePee]

For some reasons, mostly lack of attention to detail on one or two assignments (stupid grammar and spelling errors) which in large part were due to not having sufficient time to edit because of summer associate programming (Yes, this is weak; but it's also true, these do take away significant work time which can hurt on assignments with short deadlines) and being late for a summer associate meeting at one point, I am almost positive I will be no offered. Can anyone bros sympathize? I feel like everyone at my firm is totally on top of their shit. It's really an unfortunate situation ITE.

Unless literally all of your documents were riddled with errors (like, many on each page that would call into question your ability to write at all), it won't hurt you enough to cause a no-offer (unless you're in small or midlaw, then maybe it will -- it's hard to generalize these firms). If you're at a big firm, they'll care more about their 100% offer rate than no offering someone who did substantively good work but made a couple of small mistakes and was late for one meeting. Yeah, they'll give you a hard time about it so they scare you into not doing it again, but it will in all likelihood be okay. Just keep turning out quality work and being a likeable person, and you will probably get an offer.