Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

I heard some rumors that LW and KE are not planning to match. I'm not at either firm, but at a competitor firm and our chair said we are not planning to match because they aren't matching.

[Anonymous User]

I heard some rumors that LW and KE are not planning to match. I'm not at either firm, but at a competitor firm and our chair said we are not planning to match because they aren't matching.

Low quality bait.

[Anonymous User]

I heard some rumors that LW and KE are not planning to match. I'm not at either firm, but at a competitor firm and our chair said we are not planning to match because they aren't matching.

I really hope this is a flame

DPW please do something soon–we are fragile beings

[Anonymous User]

I heard some rumors that LW and KE are not planning to match. I'm not at either firm, but at a competitor firm and our chair said we are not planning to match because they aren't matching.

Low quality bait.

Obvious troll is obvious

[Anonymous User]

The amount of resentment toward KE here and I guess in the industry is astonishing. We get it. It's not a great look when your firm is getting passed by and becoming a has-been. But that's not our issue. The model is working, we're now the wealthiest firm in the industry (watch the revenue figure that comes out in the spring), and no one cares that you were founded in 1785 or once serviced a great m&a deal beside Marty Lipton himself. Cope more about your 1L contracts grade.

Go ahead and keep churning those mid-market deals, buddy. Truly a prestigious model.

I mean, the broader problem with Kirkland isn't the deals they are doing, it is that their "wealth" is benefiting a select few rainmakers, and everyone else is effectively getting shafted with little hope of ever getting "shares". It is an absolutely terrible model and the farthest thing from a true partnership, and really only works for top rainmakers or bottom of the barrel desperate people with no hope and nowhere else to go.

This is such a bad take. The minimum shares right now is ~2.5m and we just had a discussion a month ago about how KE is at a minimum promoting to equity at the same rate as the rest of the V10 and more likely doing more than that.

They compressed multiple years into one year of promotions. Not to mention that Kirkland equity is some of the least lockstep in the market.

Both points of which are already addressed since we figured that if you control for the compression the promotion rate looks about standard against other V10s on a yearly basis and "equity is some of the least lockstep" is a cop out given that min. shares are so high, probably highest in the industry at this point other than Wachtell.

[TigerIsBack]

Is it crazy to think that these big NY firms are trying to just let Milbank run off into the sunsent as a comp leader and call them a one-off "boutique" because they're afraid of how often they continue to raise salaries? It seems like if these firms were able to be successful, it would allow them to leave the salary scale stagnant for 8+ year periods (like they did for the $160k scale from 2007-2016)?

[Anonymous User]

LIBERA TE TUTEMET EX INFERIS

[Anonymous User]

Is it crazy to think that these big NY firms are trying to just let Milbank run off into the sunsent as a comp leader and call them a one-off "boutique" because they're afraid of how often they continue to raise salaries? It seems like if these firms were able to be successful, it would allow them to leave the salary scale stagnant for 8+ year periods (like they did for the $160k scale from 2007-2016)?

Was told informally in my V50 that we're going to match as soon as market settles, so I highly doubt this

[Anonymous User]

I heard a rumor that Ropes is matching. They have 400 lawyers in NYC. I'm struggling to see how K&E manages to not match. Why would anybody want to work at K&E for V6 status when they could go make more money at Ropes, which if we're being honest is on a lot of the same deals as K&E and also pays above market to high billers

[Anonymous User]

I heard a rumor that Ropes is matching. They have 400 lawyers in NYC. I'm struggling to see how K&E manages to not match. Why would anybody want to work at K&E for V6 status when they could go make more money at Ropes, which if we're being honest is on a lot of the same deals as K&E and also pays above market to high billers

Ropes will have to match because Goodwin and Wilmer have, and Ropes can't be the only of the big 3 in Boston not to pay market.

[Anonymous User]

The amount of resentment toward KE here and I guess in the industry is astonishing. We get it. It's not a great look when your firm is getting passed by and becoming a has-been. But that's not our issue. The model is working, we're now the wealthiest firm in the industry (watch the revenue figure that comes out in the spring), and no one cares that you were founded in 1785 or once serviced a great m&a deal beside Marty Lipton himself. Cope more about your 1L contracts grade.

Go ahead and keep churning those mid-market deals, buddy. Truly a prestigious model.

I mean, the broader problem with Kirkland isn't the deals they are doing, it is that their "wealth" is benefiting a select few rainmakers, and everyone else is effectively getting shafted with little hope of ever getting "shares". It is an absolutely terrible model and the farthest thing from a true partnership, and really only works for top rainmakers or bottom of the barrel desperate people with no hope and nowhere else to go.

This is such a bad take. The minimum shares right now is ~2.5m and we just had a discussion a month ago about how KE is at a minimum promoting to equity at the same rate as the rest of the V10 and more likely doing more than that.

That also doesn't mean it's not a god-awful place for juniors/mid-levels. If we're talking partnership, you're getting a major bag at most of ~v15/20 regardless and an absurb amount at the v10 level, so I don't see how that mitigates. KE gives worse deal caliber (for most folks) and a far worse model for actual development

[Anonymous User]

I heard a rumor that Ropes is matching. They have 400 lawyers in NYC. I'm struggling to see how K&E manages to not match. Why would anybody want to work at K&E for V6 status when they could go make more money at Ropes, which if we're being honest is on a lot of the same deals as K&E and also pays above market to high billers

Ropes will have to match because Goodwin and Wilmer have, and Ropes can't be the only of the big 3 in Boston not to pay market.

The Ropes perspective, though, is that no scale is "market" in Boston until Ropes pays it.

[ExpOriental]

I heard a rumor that Ropes is matching. They have 400 lawyers in NYC. I'm struggling to see how K&E manages to not match. Why would anybody want to work at K&E for V6 status when they could go make more money at Ropes, which if we're being honest is on a lot of the same deals as K&E and also pays above market to high billers

Ropes will have to match because Goodwin and Wilmer have, and Ropes can't be the only of the big 3 in Boston not to pay market.

The Ropes perspective, though, is that no scale is "market" in Boston until Ropes pays it.

I am admittedly not in Boston, but that doesn't make a lick of goddamn sense to me and I'm willing to bet no almost no one actually thinks that.

Not that it actually matters; there is zero chance of Ropes (and the vast majority of historically market paying firms) failing to match. It's not even a remote possibility, and all this handwringing is extremely dumb. I don't understand why this needs to be repeated over and over again.

[Anonymous User]

*Neil Barr awkwardly bursts through the swinging doors of the V5 Saloon (by Firsthand) and slides his hands to his holstered .357 magnums, gritting his teeth around a stalk of straw grass*

Well well well . . . I knew I’d find you at one of your usual haunts. NOW, I reckon we got ourselves a good old-fashioned compensation standoff and I’m liable to do something ‘bout it

*At the bar, Faiza Saeed sets down her mug of Barq’s root beer with a heavy thud, sighs annoyedly, and cranes her neck towards the nebbish sound of a V7 gringo doing a sad cowboy pastiche*

Neil, you know your type ain’t welcome ‘round here no more. And don’t you start again with what them Milbankers been up to

[Anonymous User]

"Workin' from home? That's a paddlin'. Billin' less than 2000 hours? That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my Park Avenue Cap-Toe Oxfords? That's a paddlin'. Asking New York's oldest law firm to match the Milbank Scale? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'."

- John Lambert Cadwalader

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

Clearly the firms don't want to do it. Only 1/5th of the V100 have matched. The longer the wait, the more likely they don't even gross people up going back to January 1. They just match going forward. It's in their best interests to wait this out instead of re-raising.

Maybe Milbank should have done another round of special bonuses instead.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

So long as recruiting is not harmed (which it won't be) and there won't be mass defections, what's the incentive for re-raising or moving swiftly? None of these firms will pay a cost prestige or business wise.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

Clearly the firms don't want to do it. Only 1/5th of the V100 have matched. The longer the wait, the more likely they don't even gross people up going back to January 1. They just match going forward. It's in their best interests to wait this out instead of re-raising.

Maybe Milbank should have done another round of special bonuses instead.

This is a good thing for milbank. The reason they raised it in the first place was to demonstrate that they're healthy enough to be able to do it and to attract talent. The fewer firms that match and the slower the take, the better. These other firms will ultimately match but if they do something like not make it retroactive, people will note that. Bad look.

[Anonymous User]

All these people that are suddenly "hearing rumors"

[stickershocked]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

So long as recruiting is not harmed (which it won't be) and there won't be mass defections, what's the incentive for re-raising or moving swiftly? None of these firms will pay a cost prestige or business wise.

There will likely be mass defections.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

So long as recruiting is not harmed (which it won't be) and there won't be mass defections, what's the incentive for re-raising or moving swiftly? None of these firms will pay a cost prestige or business wise.

There will likely be mass defections.

Not within the next four weeks lmao (and the business already runs on a three-year and out model now for the most part). There's really no incentive to do more than minimum so long as law students believe in Vault and Chambers

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why Cravath or STB doesn't take the chance to swoop in right now and beat Milbank by $5K-10K. Two weeks ago, I guess they were worried that any action would get one-upped by DPW with another raise. But the past three weeks offer plenty of evidence that DPW's partnership is either bitterly divided over beating Milbank or united in not beating Milbank (i.e., and just trying to cool the salary war). Either way, it seems unlikely that DPW will get its act together to beat a Cravath/STB scale starting at $220K or $225K. Why are these so-called "peer" firms just waiting for freaking DPW??

So long as recruiting is not harmed (which it won't be) and there won't be mass defections, what's the incentive for re-raising or moving swiftly? None of these firms will pay a cost prestige or business wise.

There will likely be mass defections.

If DPW ends up only matching (w/o special bonuses) after 3+ weeks of silent posturing, I am nearly certain that Milbank will announce spring/fall special bonuses early (within a month) in order to solidify itself as the compensation leader.

Wilkie announced special bonuses last year on March 19 and was beaten by DPW on March 22. I could see an early March announcement from Milbank if they perceive DPW and the rest of the market as being unwilling to beat them on comp.

[Anonymous User]

*Neil Barr awkwardly bursts through the swinging doors of the V5 Saloon (by Firsthand) and slides his hands to his holstered .357 magnums, gritting his teeth around a stalk of straw grass*

Well well well . . . I knew I’d find you at one of your usual haunts. NOW, I reckon we got ourselves a good old-fashioned compensation standoff and I’m liable to do something ‘bout it

*At the bar, Faiza Saeed sets down her mug of Barq’s root beer with a heavy thud, sighs annoyedly, and cranes her neck towards the nebbish sound of a V7 gringo doing a sad cowboy pastiche*

Neil, you know your type ain’t welcome ‘round here no more. And don’t you start again with what them Milbankers been up to

LOL, not bad.

But "nebbish" is technically a noun, not an adjective.

[Anonymous User]

"Workin' from home? That's a paddlin'. Billin' less than 2000 hours? That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my Park Avenue Cap-Toe Oxfords? That's a paddlin'. Asking New York's oldest law firm to match the Milbank Scale? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'."

- John Lambert Cadwalader

+1