Northwestern OCI Forum

[bananasplit19]

Welp, that went disastrously. Note to self / future classes: bidding every big firm with an office in Chicago is a terrible bidding strategy. Seems like NY is handing out CBs left and right... Here's to hoping for better luck with massmails and hoping this whole law school thing wasn't a huge mistake.

Note to future classes: NY has not been great for everyone. Some people a little over median are doing great. Some people struck out or have 1 CB. You are more likely to wind up somewhere in that band of grades. Plan accordingly.

+1. On verge of striking out- bid NY only.

To reiterate what others have posted earlier, it does seem very feast-or-famine regardless of market. I know of a few NYC-only folks drowning in CBs, and everyone else with next to nothing. Notably, the lucky few all have something compelling (ridonkulous GPA, heavy NYC BigLaw or banking experience, etc) on their resume. The others' only fault is not being redonkulous. That's life in the Big Apple.

[Anonymous User]

Welp, that went disastrously. Note to self / future classes: bidding every big firm with an office in Chicago is a terrible bidding strategy. Seems like NY is handing out CBs left and right... Here's to hoping for better luck with massmails and hoping this whole law school thing wasn't a huge mistake.

Who is your career adviser? S/he was OK with your bid list? Putting all your eggs in one basket was a terrible idea to begin with.

From all of the screeners and callbacks I have gone to, one thing I definitely notice is that-especially if you have good grades- Chicago firms are very skeptical about a candidate's willingness to stay in Chicago. I have obvious and strong Midwest ties and was still questioned about it numerously. Chicago firms seem to have an underdog mentality that a good candidate is probably going to take a NYC job. Maybe saying that "I only bid Chicago firms" would strengthen your case, but it is a high-risk strategy.

Anyway...note to future class on bidding
(1) Like all other things in life, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
(2) Don't bid on a firm because it's big and you heard about it; research and see if they practice the type of law you want to do (e.g. don't go to Jenner and say you want to do trans or try both trans/lit or don't go to). If they don't do it or are not reputable in that area, don't waste a bid on it.
(3) Don't bid on two offices of the same firm (e.g. Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chicago). Most firms have a centralized HR system (so they know you did it) and it raises a red flag to the firms because the candidate looks indecisive and desperate for a job, which you probably are if you did it.
(4) Some firms are strict about GPA cutoffs, some are not; review the GPA/callback database. Obviously, don't bid on a firm that never called back someone with your GPA.
(5) Don't be overconfident based on your GPA alone; bid conservatively. Congrats on into Northwestern Law, but for the Big Law jobs, you are competing against other T-14 schools.

[Anonymous User]

No movement from smallish Chi firms/offices (other than Edelson)?

I'm wondering about this too. I've heard nothing back (+/-) from the vast majority of the non-megafirms I screened with. Think Clark Hill, Quarles & Brady, Donohue Brown. Naturally there are less CBs (and dings for that matter) for firms with fewer interview slots and small SA classes, but the complete lack of reports is becoming eerie.

[Anonymous User]

Welp, that went disastrously. Note to self / future classes: bidding every big firm with an office in Chicago is a terrible bidding strategy. Seems like NY is handing out CBs left and right... Here's to hoping for better luck with massmails and hoping this whole law school thing wasn't a huge mistake.

Who is your career adviser? S/he was OK with your bid list? Putting all your eggs in one basket was a terrible idea to begin with.

From all of the screeners and callbacks I have gone to, one thing I definitely notice is that-especially if you have good grades- Chicago firms are very skeptical about a candidate's willingness to stay in Chicago. I have obvious and strong Midwest ties and was still questioned about it numerously. Chicago firms seem to have an underdog mentality that a good candidate is probably going to take a NYC job. Maybe saying that "I only bid Chicago firms" would strengthen your case, but it is a high-risk strategy.

Anyway...note to future class on bidding
(1) Like all other things in life, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
(2) Don't bid on a firm because it's big and you heard about it; research and see if they practice the type of law you want to do (e.g. don't go to Jenner and say you want to do trans or try both trans/lit or don't go to). If they don't do it or are not reputable in that area, don't waste a bid on it.
(3) Don't bid on two offices of the same firm (e.g. Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chicago). Most firms have a centralized HR system (so they know you did it) and it raises a red flag to the firms because the candidate looks indecisive and desperate for a job, which you probably are if you did it.
(4) Some firms are strict about GPA cutoffs, some are not; review the GPA/callback database. Obviously, don't bid on a firm that never called back someone with your GPA.
(5) Don't be overconfident based on your GPA alone; bid conservatively. Congrats on into Northwestern Law, but for the Big Law jobs, you are competing against other T-14 schools.

While I agree this is generally true, if there is a legitimate fit (ie, niche practice area) it can be worth a bid.
I have a CB with a firm for which I will be the new "minimum GPA" CB reported on next year's spreadsheet (dropping it by more than .1).

[Anonymous User]

Schiff Hardin ding by snail mail. Initials DB.

[Anonymous User]

Latham SF ding by snail mail.

[Anonymous User]

Chicago firms are very skeptical about a candidate's willingness to stay in Chicago.

This. Getting f'd by this in Chicago.

[Big Dog]

Who is your career adviser? S/he was OK with your bid list?

TBF, there is absolutely no way a career services person can tell a NULS student without midwest/local ties to bid everywhere but Chicago, (given that the odds of a local CB are minuscule, even with great grades). Such an admonition would be suicide for future applicants (once word got out on TLS).

[Anonymous User]

don't really have any ties to chicago other than school and i don't think my lack of ties negatively affected me at any of the chi firms i bid. got CBs at all the CHI firms that weren't reaches, and got about half at the ones i'd consider slight reaches (by 2014 standards... didn't consider them reaches going in...). not trying to be a dick but i dont think incoming 1Ls should be worried at all about not being able to get a job here just because they aren't originally from here.

the chicago market seems to have shrunk this year and its become more selective as a result, but i dont think its become any more insular.

ETA: not to say they didn't ask me why chicago, but they were perfectly content with generic crap like i love the city and the COL is great.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone know Chicago was going to be this brutal when they bid?

[Anonymous User]

don't really have any ties to chicago other than school and i don't think my lack of ties negatively affected me at any of the chi firms i bid. got CBs at all the CHI firms that weren't reaches, and got about half at the ones i'd consider slight reaches (by 2014 standards... didn't consider them reaches going in...). not trying to be a dick but i dont think incoming 1Ls should be worried at all about not being able to get a job here just because they aren't originally from here.

the chicago market seems to have shrunk this year and its become more selective as a result, but i dont think its become any more insular.

ETA: not to say they didn't ask me why chicago, but they were perfectly content with generic crap like i love the city and the COL is great.

They should be worried when they aren't from here and don't have spectacular grades to make up for it. Incoming 1L's have all but made their decision. Big Law in general from NU is little better than a coinflip. There are enough stories of people at median getting nothing and people above median having only 1 CB regardless of the market that reiterating how Big Law is not a lock is redundant. The best advice to give incoming 1L's is to recognize that they aren't special and will likely be depressingly average.

[Anonymous User]

Just so you know, from what I gather from lurking on their OCI thread, Michaigan's having similar Chi problems this year. However, they're not as affected since only about 17% of their grads end up in Iliinois, compared to 36% of NU. Their main problem stems from their large k-jd component of their class: high gpa's without WE are still being shut out.

[Anonymous User]

Welp, that went disastrously. Note to self / future classes: bidding every big firm with an office in Chicago is a terrible bidding strategy. Seems like NY is handing out CBs left and right... Here's to hoping for better luck with massmails and hoping this whole law school thing wasn't a huge mistake.

Who is your career adviser? S/he was OK with your bid list? Putting all your eggs in one basket was a terrible idea to begin with.

From all of the screeners and callbacks I have gone to, one thing I definitely notice is that-especially if you have good grades- Chicago firms are very skeptical about a candidate's willingness to stay in Chicago. I have obvious and strong Midwest ties and was still questioned about it numerously. Chicago firms seem to have an underdog mentality that a good candidate is probably going to take a NYC job. Maybe saying that "I only bid Chicago firms" would strengthen your case, but it is a high-risk strategy.

Anyway...note to future class on bidding
(1) Like all other things in life, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
(2) Don't bid on a firm because it's big and you heard about it; research and see if they practice the type of law you want to do (e.g. don't go to Jenner and say you want to do trans or try both trans/lit or don't go to). If they don't do it or are not reputable in that area, don't waste a bid on it.
(3) Don't bid on two offices of the same firm (e.g. Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chicago). Most firms have a centralized HR system (so they know you did it) and it raises a red flag to the firms because the candidate looks indecisive and desperate for a job, which you probably are if you did it.
(4) Some firms are strict about GPA cutoffs, some are not; review the GPA/callback database. Obviously, don't bid on a firm that never called back someone with your GPA.
(5) Don't be overconfident based on your GPA alone; bid conservatively. Congrats on into Northwestern Law, but for the Big Law jobs, you are competing against other T-14 schools.

not entirely true. some firms have a policy of not bidding multiple offices, in which case you should adhere to that. Others welcome the application and are reasonable human beings that realize that we may be interested in more than one thing simultaneously. Beyond this, you may be very interested with a firm generally and find that one office ends up being a better fit for you. I know i'm not the only one to bid multiple offices of the same firm and convert it into callbacks.

[Anonymous User]

don't really have any ties to chicago other than school and i don't think my lack of ties negatively affected me at any of the chi firms i bid. got CBs at all the CHI firms that weren't reaches, and got about half at the ones i'd consider slight reaches (by 2014 standards... didn't consider them reaches going in...). not trying to be a dick but i dont think incoming 1Ls should be worried at all about not being able to get a job here just because they aren't originally from here.

the chicago market seems to have shrunk this year and its become more selective as a result, but i dont think its become any more insular.

ETA: not to say they didn't ask me why chicago, but they were perfectly content with generic crap like i love the city and the COL is great.

They should be worried when they aren't from here and don't have spectacular grades to make up for it. Incoming 1L's have all but made their decision. Big Law in general from NU is little better than a coinflip. There are enough stories of people at median getting nothing and people above median having only 1 CB regardless of the market that reiterating how Big Law is not a lock is redundant. The best advice to give incoming 1L's is to recognize that they aren't special and will likely be depressingly average.

never said they should think it was a lock, i was just arguing against people seeming to imply that having substantial ties to chicago was a necessary condition for biglaw. it isn't.

[Anonymous User]

Welp, that went disastrously. Note to self / future classes: bidding every big firm with an office in Chicago is a terrible bidding strategy. Seems like NY is handing out CBs left and right... Here's to hoping for better luck with massmails and hoping this whole law school thing wasn't a huge mistake.

Who is your career adviser? S/he was OK with your bid list? Putting all your eggs in one basket was a terrible idea to begin with.

From all of the screeners and callbacks I have gone to, one thing I definitely notice is that-especially if you have good grades- Chicago firms are very skeptical about a candidate's willingness to stay in Chicago. I have obvious and strong Midwest ties and was still questioned about it numerously. Chicago firms seem to have an underdog mentality that a good candidate is probably going to take a NYC job. Maybe saying that "I only bid Chicago firms" would strengthen your case, but it is a high-risk strategy.

Anyway...note to future class on bidding
(1) Like all other things in life, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
(2) Don't bid on a firm because it's big and you heard about it; research and see if they practice the type of law you want to do (e.g. don't go to Jenner and say you want to do trans or try both trans/lit or don't go to). If they don't do it or are not reputable in that area, don't waste a bid on it.
(3) Don't bid on two offices of the same firm (e.g. Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chicago). Most firms have a centralized HR system (so they know you did it) and it raises a red flag to the firms because the candidate looks indecisive and desperate for a job, which you probably are if you did it.
(4) Some firms are strict about GPA cutoffs, some are not; review the GPA/callback database. Obviously, don't bid on a firm that never called back someone with your GPA.
(5) Don't be overconfident based on your GPA alone; bid conservatively. Congrats on into Northwestern Law, but for the Big Law jobs, you are competing against other T-14 schools.

not entirely true. some firms have a policy of not bidding multiple offices, in which case you should adhere to that. Others welcome the application and are reasonable human beings that realize that we may be interested in more than one thing simultaneously. Beyond this, you may be very interested with a firm generally and find that one office ends up being a better fit for you. I know i'm not the only one to bid multiple offices of the same firm and convert it into callbacks.

In reference to point 3, I had success at a firm with 2 offices (well call them A&B) and I went into interview for A saying I want A very badly, and in B I said I would be interested in B but to be honest would prefer A, but these are the reasons I am still interested in B nonetheless because this is a great firm. This strategy worked. Just don't go into A saying A no matter what and say to B that you want B no matter what - then you will be caught in a lie and this is beyond a red flag and will ruin your chances.

[Anonymous User]

Here's a thought: Do people think that our class' now-notorious failure to network/attend employer events had anything to do with this? Or unrealistic/aspirational bidding? I'm just skeptical that Chicago was meaningfully worse this year than past years.

Posting this partly for the benefit of future classes. Food for thought/discussion that might be helpful down the line.

[Anonymous User]

Here's a thought: Do people think that our class' now-notorious failure to network/attend employer events had anything to do with this? Or unrealistic/aspirational bidding? I'm just skeptical that Chicago was meaningfully worse this year than past years.

Posting this partly for the benefit of future classes. Food for thought/discussion that might be helpful down the line.

I think networking only has an effect to the extent that you had the grades for the firm anyways so i dont think not networking really hurt you that badly.

[cookiejar1]

Edit: on second thought nvm

[Anonymous User]

Here's a thought: Do people think that our class' now-notorious failure to network/attend employer events had anything to do with this? Or unrealistic/aspirational bidding? I'm just skeptical that Chicago was meaningfully worse this year than past years.

Posting this partly for the benefit of future classes. Food for thought/discussion that might be helpful down the line.

I think networking only has an effect to the extent that you had the grades for the firm anyways so i dont think not networking really hurt you that badly.

Personally, I think not networking actually did hurt you badly.

Getting a callback isn't purely grade driven. Yes, grades are important. They're a necessary condition for many firms. But each firm at OCI isn't going to automatically give a callback out to every single 3.7+ person they interview. They're looking for this random thing called fit and it's extremely hard to understand what a firm wants and what a firm is looking for w/r/t to fit without actually interacting with the firm and engaging the firm's attorneys in a meaningful way. So networking is helpful to the extent that it really teaches you subtle things about each of the different firms and helps you really differentiate yourself during a short 20-minute screener. The answers I gave to the same generic interview questions were quite different in my Sidley and Kirkland interviews. I mean, guys, interviewing is basically a game of telling your interviewers exactly what they want to hear. Knowing what they want to hear in many cases requires networking.

[Anonymous User]

Have callbacks w firms I didn't go to receptions or network with and struck out with firms I did. Idk maybe I'm aspie as fuck.

[Anonymous User]

I networked like crazy to
The point I knew both of my screeners from one firm and still got dinged. Chicago is hard. -guy who has had some chi cbs but really struggled to convert much.

[Anonymous User]

Have callbacks w firms I didn't go to receptions or network with and struck out with firms I did.

Ditto.

[Anonymous User]

At the Latham reception they said don't go to hospitality suites if you have an interview with that firm.
<----Interviewed with Latham, went to suite, ding.

[Anonymous User]

Here's a thought: Do people think that our class' now-notorious failure to network/attend employer events had anything to do with this? Or unrealistic/aspirational bidding? I'm just skeptical that Chicago was meaningfully worse this year than past years.

Posting this partly for the benefit of future classes. Food for thought/discussion that might be helpful down the line.

I think networking only has an effect to the extent that you had the grades for the firm anyways so i dont think not networking really hurt you that badly.

Personally, I think not networking actually did hurt you badly.

Getting a callback isn't purely grade driven. Yes, grades are important. They're a necessary condition for many firms. But each firm at OCI isn't going to automatically give a callback out to every single 3.7+ person they interview. They're looking for this random thing called fit and it's extremely hard to understand what a firm wants and what a firm is looking for w/r/t to fit without actually interacting with the firm and engaging the firm's attorneys in a meaningful way. So networking is helpful to the extent that it really teaches you subtle things about each of the different firms and helps you really differentiate yourself during a short 20-minute screener. The answers I gave to the same generic interview questions were quite different in my Sidley and Kirkland interviews. I mean, guys, interviewing is basically a game of telling your interviewers exactly what they want to hear. Knowing what they want to hear in many cases requires networking.

Oh lord...what is this flame? Most of my callbacks are with firms I had no interaction with prior to OCI. Networking can never hurt, and can help you practice just talking to people, but no firm is gonna place it above grades. From the looks of this OCI, some of the big time firms did absolutely callback everyone with a 3.7+ with little regard to social skills.

[Anonymous User]

Some of the big chi firms didn't give a fuck about a 3.7+.

- hi. struck out in chi w ties