V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[nonprofit-prophet]

I've heard a lot about NYC V5s having superior exit options. Can you give me an example of typical exit options for V5 associates? Is the pay significantly different from exit options for associates at a V50 that is tops in Texas?

[Anonymous User]

Do you think it's ever appropriate to mention religion during an interview or in your resume?

What if your interviewer asks you what you do a lot of during your spare time, and honestly, you do a lot of ministry/church stuff?

Does that mean "volunteering"? Or "participating in community organizations"? or something. I don't know. I'd avoid religion.

Is one perceived differently than the other? Say you volunteer in Mexico to build houses through your church's missionary team. Or you feed the homeless every week at the local union mission.

All matters on what you're putting the emphasis on. Regardless, I'd avoid it, because whether you're talking about religion or talking about volunteering, I think it's making you sound like someone who's going to go save the world.

Wow, really? I didn't know the whole "don't make yourself seem like you want to save the world" was THAT important to avoid. I've done a lot of environmental law stuff for the past two years (wrote articles, am on the journal, and interned at a government agency for two summers). I know that could spell "enviro" nut, but I really am interested in joining a law firm (I'm a rising 3L). What are some things that I can emphasize or bring up to genuinely let law firm employers know that I'm not a bleeding heart and that I would be excited about working in a law firm after I graduate?

[Anonymous User]

The religion question has prompted me to ask this one:

During the school year I did some research for a ACLU attorney and some grass roots negotiation stuff on behalf of occupy protestors. I've been inclined to include these things in my resume since they show I was active during the school year and have some relation to legal practice, but I've also been concerned that it stinks of flight risk. What would your thoughts be?

Thanks so much for doing this by the way. I've read every single question and answer and cherish each in my interview knowledge bank.

[itbdvorm]

All matters on what you're putting the emphasis on. Regardless, I'd avoid it, because whether you're talking about religion or talking about volunteering, I think it's making you sound like someone who's going to go save the world.

I just find it shocking that an applicant cannot even appear to be involved in their community as an extracurricular activity.

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

[itbdvorm]

I know you mentioned a while back that international students should be able to be show that they are proficient in English . But how would an international student overcome issues such as ties and longevity at a firm? 

Convince the interviewer why you want to be in place (y) for period of time (x).

Why do you? Answer that and you can answer the interviewer

[itbdvorm]

I've heard a lot about NYC V5s having superior exit options. Can you give me an example of typical exit options for V5 associates? Is the pay significantly different from exit options for associates at a V50 that is tops in Texas?

Nothing's typical, really - everything depends on practice group and individual. I think putting it into those categories is frankly silly. A top corp lawyer at Baker Botts Houston looking to go someplace in Texas is going to do as well, or better, than a Skadden NY lawyer trying to do the same.

[itbdvorm]

Wow, really? I didn't know the whole "don't make yourself seem like you want to save the world" was THAT important to avoid. I've done a lot of environmental law stuff for the past two years (wrote articles, am on the journal, and interned at a government agency for two summers). I know that could spell "enviro" nut, but I really am interested in joining a law firm (I'm a rising 3L). What are some things that I can emphasize or bring up to genuinely let law firm employers know that I'm not a bleeding heart and that I would be excited about working in a law firm after I graduate?

Again...why do I want to hire you? What value are you planning to deliver to me?

More importantly - why do you want to work for a law firm? If there's no reason other than the money you won't convince me you're not an angry bleeding heart reluctantly doing this because you need to...which may in fact be reality

[itbdvorm]

The religion question has prompted me to ask this one:

During the school year I did some research for a ACLU attorney and some grass roots negotiation stuff on behalf of occupy protestors. I've been inclined to include these things in my resume since they show I was active during the school year and have some relation to legal practice, but I've also been concerned that it stinks of flight risk. What would your thoughts be?

Thanks so much for doing this by the way. I've read every single question and answer and cherish each in my interview knowledge bank.

It stinks of much, much more than flight risk. Occupy is not a popular subject amongst law firms.

[Flips88]

All matters on what you're putting the emphasis on. Regardless, I'd avoid it, because whether you're talking about religion or talking about volunteering, I think it's making you sound like someone who's going to go save the world.

I just find it shocking that an applicant cannot even appear to be involved in their community as an extracurricular activity.

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

Volunteering at a soup kitchen is a, what, 1-2 hour per week commitment or even something that you could do once a month for a few hours on a Saturday? Same with reading a financial journal. You could probably very easily do both. This just seems like it should be such an immaterial issue to me.

[Anonymous User]

All matters on what you're putting the emphasis on. Regardless, I'd avoid it, because whether you're talking about religion or talking about volunteering, I think it's making you sound like someone who's going to go save the world.

I just find it shocking that an applicant cannot even appear to be involved in their community as an extracurricular activity.

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

Volunteering at a soup kitchen is a, what, 1-2 hour per week commitment or even something that you could do once a month for a few hours on a Saturday? Same with reading a financial journal. You could probably very easily do both. This just seems like it should be such an immaterial issue to me.

I think big firms are becoming a lot more weary of recent graduates with that kind of background (P.I., or anything of the sort) coming into these big firms for the main purpose of just making money to pay off loans faster and then bolt out of the door...why would they want to spends tens of thousands of dollars on you to train you if your not planning on trying to make it for the long haul

[Flips88]

Volunteering at a soup kitchen is a, what, 1-2 hour per week commitment or even something that you could do once a month for a few hours on a Saturday? Same with reading a financial journal. You could probably very easily do both. This just seems like it should be such an immaterial issue to me.

I think big firms are becoming a lot more weary of recent graduates with that kind of background (P.I., or anything of the sort) coming into these big firms for the main purpose of just making money to pay off loans faster and then bolt out of the door...why would they want to spends tens of thousands of dollars on you to train you if your not planning on trying to make it for the long haul

See I totally understand that sentiment and I hope to make it clear to firms that I value how much money they would put into training me and that I intend to stay as long as they need or want me. I don't want them to feel like they squandered resources by taking me on.

[Kring345]

For those of you not understanding: are you aware that there are hundreds and hundreds of students just as qualified and motivated as you are lining up behind you? A firm (or any company) only hires you because they think you'll be an asset to them. According to the OP, those kinds of things arent going to help the firm in anyway. So if your flight risk, left-leaning, tree-hugging sentiments only makes you 1% less appealing to a firm, there are a few hundred people who can EASILY (and enthusiastically will) take your place at 0 loss to the firm -- actually a net gain because of the 1%. It's just business. Get over it.

[Anonymous User]

Apologies if asked (but I don't think it has been):

Would you be immediately skeptical of someone that had a JAG internship their 1L summer? Could I climb out of that hole?

I truly wanted to do JAG pior to the internship, but soon realized that it wasn't a good fit. Reasons:
-JAGs generally have to relocate every 2 years, which would make settling down hard.
-JAGs would have a harder time providing for a family, as pay is closer to PI levels.
-A lot of the work that I did (and my JAG did) during my summer was clerical and administrative rather than legal. We filled out a lot of forms, attended meetings, and similar things that weren't "legal." Legal research and writing were very limited.
-Some branch offices have only 1 JAG in them, which would make mentoring and career development difficult or impossible.
-Most services pursue the 'jack of all trades' approach where JAGs get some experience in everything, but most don't specialize until about 10-12 years in. I want to settle in a specific practice group.
-If I get out after my 4 year commitment, my exit options aren't great and a lot of firms would probably not hire me

What are your thoughts? More reasons? Or do I have too many that are too flimsy? Please be brutal. God knows OCI will be.

As many others have said, thanks for taking the time to do this.

[Anonymous User]

How common is stealthing at your firm?

Is there enough work to go around if an associate wants it?

Are there cases of associates who really want to work but being "frozen out" and not being given enough work and then later being stealthed? Or is that mostly gone now.

[Anonymous User]

I have bad credit -- real bad credit, due to student loans, credit cards, etc. How bad will this hurt me in the evaluation process? Thanks.

[itbdvorm]

Apologies if asked (but I don't think it has been):

Would you be immediately skeptical of someone that had a JAG internship their 1L summer? Could I climb out of that hole?

I truly wanted to do JAG pior to the internship, but soon realized that it wasn't a good fit. Reasons:
-JAGs generally have to relocate every 2 years, which would make settling down hard.
-JAGs would have a harder time providing for a family, as pay is closer to PI levels.
-A lot of the work that I did (and my JAG did) during my summer was clerical and administrative rather than legal. We filled out a lot of forms, attended meetings, and similar things that weren't "legal." Legal research and writing were very limited.
-Some branch offices have only 1 JAG in them, which would make mentoring and career development difficult or impossible.
-Most services pursue the 'jack of all trades' approach where JAGs get some experience in everything, but most don't specialize until about 10-12 years in. I want to settle in a specific practice group.
-If I get out after my 4 year commitment, my exit options aren't great and a lot of firms would probably not hire me

What are your thoughts? More reasons? Or do I have too many that are too flimsy? Please be brutal. God knows OCI will be.

As many others have said, thanks for taking the time to do this.

relax. JAG's totally fine for 1L summer. I throw it into the DA/USA camp. Perfectly acceptable.

[itbdvorm]

How common is stealthing at your firm?

Is there enough work to go around if an associate wants it?

Are there cases of associates who really want to work but being "frozen out" and not being given enough work and then later being stealthed? Or is that mostly gone now.

Hard to say. Plenty of work, but there are people who frankly aren't any good. "Stealth" vs. "that guy wasn't any good and we had to ease him out" may just depend on viewpoint

[itbdvorm]

I have bad credit -- real bad credit, due to student loans, credit cards, etc. How bad will this hurt me in the evaluation process? Thanks.

Honestly not sure. No idea if/when we do credit checks...

[itbdvorm]

For those of you not understanding: are you aware that there are hundreds and hundreds of students just as qualified and motivated as you are lining up behind you? A firm (or any company) only hires you because they think you'll be an asset to them. According to the OP, those kinds of things arent going to help the firm in anyway. So if your flight risk, left-leaning, tree-hugging sentiments only makes you 1% less appealing to a firm, there are a few hundred people who can EASILY (and enthusiastically will) take your place at 0 loss to the firm -- actually a net gain because of the 1%. It's just business. Get over it.

Yes. Just because you're "staying" doesn't mean you're valuable. In fact, just because you're "billing" doesn't mean you're valuable. This is a hard, hard job to keep your motivation up at, and not all billable hours are created the same. There are people who walk around with crap attitudes, like the firm is lucky to have them instead of the other way around. I don't want you to just "stay". I want you to go the extra mile, read the extra case, give the document one last careful read, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I have bad credit -- real bad credit, due to student loans, credit cards, etc. How bad will this hurt me in the evaluation process? Thanks.

They do not check for SA positions, and do not check when they make an offer at the end of the summer. It varies from firm to firm, but when you start as a full time associate some will do a background check that includes a credit report.

[Anonymous User]

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

This makes sense. How would you convey an interest in financial markets on a resume? Would you just list "reading financial journals" next to your list of interests?

[Anonymous User]

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

This makes sense. How would you convey an interest in financial markets on a resume? Would you just list "reading financial journals" next to your list of interests?

Everything else being equal, I think I would ding you if you put "reading financial journals" under the "Interests" section on your Resume.

[itbdvorm]

Look, you can do whatever you want. You tell me though - which person looks more appealing as a big firm lawyer (a nearly all-consuming job):

Candidate A, volunteers at soup kitchens, nice guy
Candidate B, enjoys reading financial journals, nice guy

Candidate B's spare time hobby helps him be better at his full-time job. Candidate A's spare time hobby is nice and all, but why would it make me think he's going to be extra-committed?

This makes sense. How would you convey an interest in financial markets on a resume? Would you just list "reading financial journals" next to your list of interests?

Everything else being equal, I think I would ding you if you put "reading financial journals" under the "Interests" section on your Resume.

Fair enough (and can't totally disagree). I wouldn't convey it on your resume, but talking about interesting things you've read does so very nicely

[Anonymous User]

Is it appropriate to list my high school on my resume if I went to a well-known prestigious school in the city that I'm applying to (not NYC, but think Stuyvesant, Horace Mann, Hunter, etc)?

[itbdvorm]

Is it appropriate to list my high school on my resume if I went to a well-known prestigious school in the city that I'm applying to (not NYC, but think Stuyvesant, Horace Mann, Hunter, etc)?

No. Could maybe get away w/listing an alumni-type position. But it's tricky to do without sounding like an asshole.