The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Sweetdeal068]

2015 grad...still in the vale. I am losing hope at this point. With the new wave of grads who will finish the bar exam in a day or so, I feel like I will never be able to get a job at this point. Why hire someone with an employment gap instead of a new grad? That is so depressing. I have zero fight left in me. At this point, I really regret going to law school. Out of all the mistakes in my life, this one takes the cake.

Hey, I'm in the exact same situation, 2015 grad.I had a real bout of embarrassment and sadness this morning, damn facebook lol. I feel so hopeless too, and I'm losing my desire to care about law at this point :/. I'm seriously thinking about just cutting my losses and switching fields completely...even though it will require going back to school. Seeing the new wave of bar takers definitely stings too, but I wish them all the best! Maybe being a lawyer just isn't for me, and I've been making peace with that. But if it's what you truly want, please don't give up! We all here so you can vent of course. You're not alone.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for what I know is going to be a weird-sounding and stupid question. A recent grad here. After I graduated, I received an offer with a firm for practice in a different state than the one in which I was scheduled to take the bar, too late to make a switch, and one in which I would not be eligible for reciprocity. The firm didn't seem to mind, and told me to go ahead and take the bar I was scheduled for.

The only problem is - I woke up today with a fever and chills, feeling stupid and slow, and took the MBE practically unable to focus at all, much less perform to my max. I am just wondering... If I fail this exam, will my offer be in danger? I'm just very worried about screwing myself right at the start. I know it's an odd situation, but I would be very grateful to hear what TLS thinks.

Again, sorry.

[Anonymous User]

..............

[Kratos]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for what I know is going to be a weird-sounding and stupid question. A recent grad here. After I graduated, I received an offer with a firm for practice in a different state than the one in which I was scheduled to take the bar, too late to make a switch, and one in which I would not be eligible for reciprocity. The firm didn't seem to mind, and told me to go ahead and take the bar I was scheduled for.

The only problem is - I woke up today with a fever and chills, feeling stupid and slow, and took the MBE practically unable to focus at all, much less perform to my max. I am just wondering... If I fail this exam, will my offer be in danger? I'm just very worried about screwing myself right at the start. I know it's an odd situation, but I would be very grateful to hear what TLS thinks.

Again, sorry.

you probly passed

[Pleasye]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for what I know is going to be a weird-sounding and stupid question. A recent grad here. After I graduated, I received an offer with a firm for practice in a different state than the one in which I was scheduled to take the bar, too late to make a switch, and one in which I would not be eligible for reciprocity. The firm didn't seem to mind, and told me to go ahead and take the bar I was scheduled for.

The only problem is - I woke up today with a fever and chills, feeling stupid and slow, and took the MBE practically unable to focus at all, much less perform to my max. I am just wondering... If I fail this exam, will my offer be in danger? I'm just very worried about screwing myself right at the start. I know it's an odd situation, but I would be very grateful to hear what TLS thinks.

Again, sorry.

There's really no way to answer this. At some firms failing the first time is NBD and you can just take a second time. At others failing means you get fired.

I'm guessing since you were going to have to take another exam to work at this firm anyway, failing in the irrelevant jurisdiction wouldn't be a big deal.

Also maybe you still passed.

[whitecollar23]

Is mass mailing still a worthwhile thing once you graduate and sit for the bar? Or are you better off mass networking? Also, how do you use half these sites? Like usajobs.com just looks like one big mess to me. Any advice on how to apply for government jobs? Like Volunteer Assistant Attorney General in NY?

Also, should I be taking a break right after the bar before digging into all of this again?

[sparty99]

2015 grad...still in the vale. I am losing hope at this point. With the new wave of grads who will finish the bar exam in a day or so, I feel like I will never be able to get a job at this point. Why hire someone with an employment gap instead of a new grad? That is so depressing. I have zero fight left in me. At this point, I really regret going to law school. Out of all the mistakes in my life, this one takes the cake.

Hey, I'm in the exact same situation, 2015 grad.I had a real bout of embarrassment and sadness this morning, damn facebook lol. I feel so hopeless too, and I'm losing my desire to care about law at this point :/. I'm seriously thinking about just cutting my losses and switching fields completely...even though it will require going back to school. Seeing the new wave of bar takers definitely stings too, but I wish them all the best! Maybe being a lawyer just isn't for me, and I've been making peace with that. But if it's what you truly want, please don't give up! We all here so you can vent of course. You're not alone.

Why would you go back to school and waste more money? Just get any job at this point, legal or not. With your law degree you can probably get a job as a legal recruiter/headhunter.

[andythefir]

2015 grad...still in the vale. I am losing hope at this point. With the new wave of grads who will finish the bar exam in a day or so, I feel like I will never be able to get a job at this point. Why hire someone with an employment gap instead of a new grad? That is so depressing. I have zero fight left in me. At this point, I really regret going to law school. Out of all the mistakes in my life, this one takes the cake.

Hey, I'm in the exact same situation, 2015 grad.I had a real bout of embarrassment and sadness this morning, damn facebook lol. I feel so hopeless too, and I'm losing my desire to care about law at this point :/. I'm seriously thinking about just cutting my losses and switching fields completely...even though it will require going back to school. Seeing the new wave of bar takers definitely stings too, but I wish them all the best! Maybe being a lawyer just isn't for me, and I've been making peace with that. But if it's what you truly want, please don't give up! We all here so you can vent of course. You're not alone.

If you've passed the bar anywhere you can get a job in a rural NM DA's office. The 5th district, in particular, is always hiring. I've seen them hire a for profit school grad who got fired from their last DA job who was working doc review at the time. If you're willing to move, there are jobs.

[whitecollar23]

2015 grad...still in the vale. I am losing hope at this point. With the new wave of grads who will finish the bar exam in a day or so, I feel like I will never be able to get a job at this point. Why hire someone with an employment gap instead of a new grad? That is so depressing. I have zero fight left in me. At this point, I really regret going to law school. Out of all the mistakes in my life, this one takes the cake.

Hey, I'm in the exact same situation, 2015 grad.I had a real bout of embarrassment and sadness this morning, damn facebook lol. I feel so hopeless too, and I'm losing my desire to care about law at this point :/. I'm seriously thinking about just cutting my losses and switching fields completely...even though it will require going back to school. Seeing the new wave of bar takers definitely stings too, but I wish them all the best! Maybe being a lawyer just isn't for me, and I've been making peace with that. But if it's what you truly want, please don't give up! We all here so you can vent of course. You're not alone.

If you've passed the bar anywhere you can get a job in a rural NM DA's office. The 5th district, in particular, is always hiring. I've seen them hire a for profit school grad who got fired from their last DA job who was working doc review at the time. If you're willing to move, there are jobs.

Uh, link me!! I'll find Walter White while I'm there and get many different kinds of experience.

But seriously, link!!!

[BVest]

Is mass mailing still a worthwhile thing once you graduate and sit for the bar? Or are you better off mass networking? Also, how do you use half these sites? Like usajobs.com just looks like one big mess to me. Any advice on how to apply for government jobs? Like Volunteer Assistant Attorney General in NY?

Also, should I be taking a break right after the bar before digging into all of this again?

Mass-mailing is still worthwhile. Sure the hit rate is not that high, but you never know where the interviews will come from; when making your lists, though, be sure you know which entities require online apps rather than email. Yes, networking is always good too. They're not mutually exclusive.

And a lot of the sites (especially the government ones) are goofy as heck, but it's also the only way to apply for those jobs, so you just have to figure it out.

There are a ton of NY AAG positions currently posted, including volunteer AAG:

[+] Spoiler

HOW TO APPLY

Applications are being received online. To apply, please visit our careers website: ag.ny.gov/job-postings, once on the page click on the Volunteer Attorneys option.
Applicants must be prepared to submit a complete application consisting of the following:

• Cover Letter (Include your preferred bureau placement and location; see the bureau descriptions for details.)
• Resume
• Writing Sample
• List of three (3) references with contact information and email addresses
• Law school transcript if less than five (5) years post-graduate (unofficial is acceptable)

Please note: Failure to submit a complete application will delay the consideration of your application.

If you have questions about a position with the OAG, the application process or need assistance with submitting your application, please contact the Legal Recruitment Bureau via email at recruitment@ag.ny.gov or phone at 212-416-8080.

There are also federal defender positions open out in West Texas if you speak spanish. https://www.fd.org/navigation/employment/view-vacancies

[whitecollar23]

Is mass mailing still a worthwhile thing once you graduate and sit for the bar? Or are you better off mass networking? Also, how do you use half these sites? Like usajobs.com just looks like one big mess to me. Any advice on how to apply for government jobs? Like Volunteer Assistant Attorney General in NY?

Also, should I be taking a break right after the bar before digging into all of this again?

Mass-mailing is still worthwhile. Sure the hit rate is not that high, but you never know where the interviews will come from; when making your lists, though, be sure you know which entities require online apps rather than email. Yes, networking is always good too. They're not mutually exclusive.

And a lot of the sites (especially the government ones) are goofy as heck, but it's also the only way to apply for those jobs, so you just have to figure it out.

There are a ton of NY AAG positions currently posted, including volunteer AAG:

[+] Spoiler

HOW TO APPLY

Applications are being received online. To apply, please visit our careers website: ag.ny.gov/job-postings, once on the page click on the Volunteer Attorneys option.
Applicants must be prepared to submit a complete application consisting of the following:

• Cover Letter (Include your preferred bureau placement and location; see the bureau descriptions for details.)
• Resume
• Writing Sample
• List of three (3) references with contact information and email addresses
• Law school transcript if less than five (5) years post-graduate (unofficial is acceptable)

Please note: Failure to submit a complete application will delay the consideration of your application.

If you have questions about a position with the OAG, the application process or need assistance with submitting your application, please contact the Legal Recruitment Bureau via email at recruitment@ag.ny.gov or phone at 212-416-8080.

There are also federal defender positions open out in West Texas if you speak spanish. https://www.fd.org/navigation/employment/view-vacancies

Thank you. My concern with mass mailing is that I'll end up sending form cover letters and just bug a bunch of firms so that when they are actually hiring, I'll be that guy who mass mailed them too many times. I just keep wondering if getting into firms via networking like a madman avoids that whole issue. I've gotten so many different opinions on this that my brain just hurts.


And yeah, applied for five offices for the AAG. Just wondering what the timeline is. I applied for one office a couple weeks ago, but then got sucked into the bar, but then applied for four more today. Wonder when I follow up or submit a request to find out what is going on (that's a thing they have on the site).

[andythefir]

2015 grad...still in the vale. I am losing hope at this point. With the new wave of grads who will finish the bar exam in a day or so, I feel like I will never be able to get a job at this point. Why hire someone with an employment gap instead of a new grad? That is so depressing. I have zero fight left in me. At this point, I really regret going to law school. Out of all the mistakes in my life, this one takes the cake.

Hey, I'm in the exact same situation, 2015 grad.I had a real bout of embarrassment and sadness this morning, damn facebook lol. I feel so hopeless too, and I'm losing my desire to care about law at this point :/. I'm seriously thinking about just cutting my losses and switching fields completely...even though it will require going back to school. Seeing the new wave of bar takers definitely stings too, but I wish them all the best! Maybe being a lawyer just isn't for me, and I've been making peace with that. But if it's what you truly want, please don't give up! We all here so you can vent of course. You're not alone.

If you've passed the bar anywhere you can get a job in a rural NM DA's office. The 5th district, in particular, is always hiring. I've seen them hire a for profit school grad who got fired from their last DA job who was working doc review at the time. If you're willing to move, there are jobs.

Uh, link me!! I'll find Walter White while I'm there and get many different kinds of experience.

But seriously, link!!!

http://www.nmdas.com

Website itself says there are no jobs, but it lies. Apply to all 13, and you'll definitely get traction somewhere.

[Sweetdeal068]

To Sparty, thank you but I'm honestly looking towards a different field where my law degree just wouldn't be useful. I'm still mulling it over though, but it excites me more than law. I've had a lot of time to think, and I really don't think law will be for me in the long run. I have been applying to JD advantage positions in PA for a while now (where I'm currently barred and for personal reasons I am aiming to relocate to). I'm from CT, and living back at home. And to Andythefir, thank you for the tip, yes, I've heard about NM but as I explained ip above I can't relocate all the way there! :/ good looking out though guys!

[Easy-E]

Dunno how many NJ people are ITT, but a small (8 attorney) defense litigation firm in Holmdel (Monmouth County) is looking for an associate ASAP. Must have sat for NY/NJ. PM me if you're interested.

[Anonymous User]

Wisconsin Public Defender is hiring. I would cold call. Also there are district attorney and regulatory positions below in WI. You have to apply through the state's website, but the state website with the postings is below. Also 2 AFPD positions in NY and DE that don't require work experience or spanish. Finally CPCS (public defender in MA is hiring). They have called multiple times about their trial attorney positions, and it seems like they want to fill the spots ASAP.


http://wisc.jobs/public/job_search_list.asp?advsrch=1

https://www.fd.org/docs/employment/1983 ... F-2016.pdf

https://www.fd.org/docs/employment/1988 ... U-2016.pdf

https://careers-publiccounsel.icims.com ... egory=8737

[Anonymous User]

Is there an updated BYU Jobbank login/password? OP one doesn't seem to be working.

[whitecollar23]

Wisconsin Public Defender is hiring. I would cold call. Also there are district attorney and regulatory positions below in WI. You have to apply through the state's website, but the state website with the postings is below. Also 2 AFPD positions in NY and DE that don't require work experience or spanish. Finally CPCS (public defender in MA is hiring). They have called multiple times about their trial attorney positions, and it seems like they want to fill the spots ASAP.


http://wisc.jobs/public/job_search_list.asp?advsrch=1

https://www.fd.org/docs/employment/1983 ... F-2016.pdf

https://www.fd.org/docs/employment/1988 ... U-2016.pdf

https://careers-publiccounsel.icims.com ... egory=8737

Does anyone know how public defender positions look in terms of experience and exit options?

[Anonymous User]

2 of my professors were former public defenders, and one was an AUSA (which is the exact same work, pay, and cases as the FDP except on the other side of course). I know there is a former PD on the DC Court of Appeals and another is on the 8th circuit and countless state court judges. In my state there is decent turnover, as some get great reputations and private firms want them to be their hired guns. But that might be cause the program is fully funded, so it isn't like New Orleans where you get 7 minutes a case. It could be a dead end like anything else. I know people sometimes burnout.

[associatedreams]

im joining the vale here hoping for some good news soon. im apparently a shitty interviewer as I went 0/4 at biglaw in a span of like 2 weeks. im surprised I even got the interviews though.

[associatedreams]

Here's some sources I found useful:

https://www.ilrg.com/nlj250
(largest 350 firms) - EDIT: NLJ just updated its list, added 150 more firms, not sure how to access without credentials though-maybe school access
http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... he-NLJ-500

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(for this, I would look at past lists as well - if a firm made multiple appearances, chances are they're pretty solid)

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(same advice as above)

https://www.law360.com/rankings/most-fe ... iffs-firms
(same advice as above)

http://www.gobiglaw.com/
(good amalgamation of biglaw job postings)

http://www.martindale.com/
(a bit clunky but still useful)

Good luck!

Thanks for this info. So far I went from 1-100 Vault List and made my MM to about 70 of them. I landed 3 interviews so far, but not all from vault ranking. I think I need to switch up to applying to smaller firms. The yield is just not great and time seems to be running out.

It would be helpful if we can all share our background/stats to get an idea of who/when we are getting calls for interviews. I'm a median at T25-T30 with strong softs in a major market. I'm not particularly impressive but I did get calls. Don't lose hope!

[associatedreams]

Also, after a couple of months of job search, it makes sense to volunteer at local organizations to keep your legal experience/skill relevant and up to date.

[whitecollar23]

Here's some sources I found useful:

https://www.ilrg.com/nlj250
(largest 350 firms) - EDIT: NLJ just updated its list, added 150 more firms, not sure how to access without credentials though-maybe school access
http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... he-NLJ-500

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(for this, I would look at past lists as well - if a firm made multiple appearances, chances are they're pretty solid)

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(same advice as above)

https://www.law360.com/rankings/most-fe ... iffs-firms
(same advice as above)

http://www.gobiglaw.com/
(good amalgamation of biglaw job postings)

http://www.martindale.com/
(a bit clunky but still useful)

Good luck!

Thanks for this info. So far I went from 1-100 Vault List and made my MM to about 70 of them. I landed 3 interviews so far, but not all from vault ranking. I think I need to switch up to applying to smaller firms. The yield is just not great and time seems to be running out.

It would be helpful if we can all share our background/stats to get an idea of who/when we are getting calls for interviews. I'm a median at T25-T30 with strong softs in a major market. I'm not particularly impressive but I did get calls. Don't lose hope!

You landed 3 interviews through MM now? Are you a recent grad or are you a rising 3L? I'm a recent above median CCN grad.

[associatedreams]

You landed 3 interviews through MM now? Are you a recent grad or are you a rising 3L? I'm a recent above median CCN grad.

Yes. Only 1 of them from a vault 100 firm tho. The rest were regional firm of about 100 attorneys and another about 300. I've been out 1 year tho and licensed.

[whitecollar23]

You landed 3 interviews through MM now? Are you a recent grad or are you a rising 3L? I'm a recent above median CCN grad.

Yes. Only 1 of them from a vault 100 firm tho. The rest were regional firm of about 100 attorneys and another about 300. I've been out 1 year tho and licensed.

Ah, makes sense. Have you worked during the gap? I feel like I should wait to mass mail until I get licensed, as I'll have a better shot then and can't really mass mail now and then again the same firms in 3 months, haha.

[tyroneslothrop1]

You should mass mail now. Mid-sized firms and up routinely hired grads who are not barred on the reasonable assumption that you will be barred in a few months.