NY to 200k?! Forum

[cheaptilts]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• APKS, K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

The Shearman @ 190 is inaccurate. As stated earlier in this thread, they moved. Confirmed by @nonequitypartner days ago and finally reaching ATL today.

[Anonymous User]

Do we think the firms that are doing the DPW (202.5k) scale know that they are technically below market? I almost feel like they might not realize...?

This would be the only time ever that there's an actual split in the market compensation, no?

[Anonymous User]

The difference between 202.5 and 205 for stubs is way smaller than actual differences that have existed for a long time, like benefits (including 401(k) matching) or even dinner reimbursements over the average biglaw career. It’s barely worth mentioning at all.

[Pozzo]

Do we think the firms that are doing the DPW (202.5k) scale know that they are technically below market? I almost feel like they might not realize...?

This would be the only time ever that there's an actual split in the market compensation, no?

I’ve got a feeling (and nothing to back it up with) that the 202.5 thing will be a one-year phenomenon. Barring another raise between now and then, my money is on all these firms starting c/o 22 at 205.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on what is taking Milbank so long to match the new scale that beat them?

[doctor]

Thoughts on what is taking Milbank so long to match the new scale that beat them?

Hopefully, it's because they're getting ready to announce a move to $210

[glitched]

Thoughts on what is taking Milbank so long to match the new scale that beat them?

They're debating whether it's worth it to go 210.

[Anonymous User]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, APKS, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

AFAIK Covington is in the 202.5 crew, although it seems like maybe the stub-year differential is for this year only.

[Pozzo]

They're debating whether it's worth it to go 210.

Hopefully, it's because they're getting ready to announce a move to $210

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one

[doctor]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, APKS, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

AFAIK Covington is in the 202.5 crew, although it seems like maybe the stub-year differential is for this year only.

You're right, they were sneaky and buried that in a blurb below their chart which started at c/o 2020. I only skimmed the salary memos so it could be that I was duped by others too. Classic CovingTTTon.

[papermateflair]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, APKS, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

Fair enough - I don't personally see a meaningful distinction between 202.5 and 205 for stub years (we're talking about what, 3-4 months of pay at most?), but if I get time I'll see if I can add a stub year column too!

Also, just in case you didn't know, "jipping" is considered hurtful language by the Roma people (more here: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... -hurts-you). I've personally had to excise it from my own vocabulary, but just wanted to point it out since a lot of Americans don't realize where it came from and why it's better not to use it.

[Anonymous User]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• APKS, K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

WSGR may or may not have upped to 205 Crew, they matched summers to 205k

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if there’s been any movement by any of the elite Houston boutiques?

[OsamaJerry]

Updated V50 grid as of today. The Google Doc is nice but it doesn't take into account which firms are jipping summers and stubs out of $1000:

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, Covington, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, FF

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• APKS, K&S, K&L, Perkins, Linklaters, Shearman

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

The Shearman @ 190 is inaccurate. As stated earlier in this thread, they moved. Confirmed by @nonequitypartner days ago and finally reaching ATL today.

Yeah, Shearman's 205. It's officially announced and it's up on ATL. You should update.

[OsamaJerry]

Decided it was finally time for a google doc. Took the previous bonus doc and created a new version, and updated based on ATL's scorecard chart. Sounds like there's been movement since the ATL updated their chart last, so if something is missing/wrong let me know and I will update. Fingers crossed the link works and I set it up right...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Willkie matched. Appreciate the spreadsheet, btw.

Based on the above, I don’t think we confirmed Shearman matched.

Shearman matched. https://abovethelaw.com/2021/06/associa ... ling-idea/

[Anonymous User]

Any info about Desmarais? I've heard they committed to raising but I haven't heard anything concrete about the numbers

also curious. they dropped salaries for 3rd+ years this year, wondering how much they plan on going back up

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/06/desmarais-raises/?rf=1

[doctor]

Yeah, Shearman's 205. It's officially announced and it's up on ATL. You should update.

Here's the updated table but they're @ 202.5 not 205.

205 Crew:

• Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, APKS, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:

• DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Covington, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, Linklaters, FF, Shearman

Still @ 200:

• Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:

• K&S, K&L, Perkins

Off-market:

• Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland’s lateral hiring report (newly instituted to raise associate morale) shows they’ve hired more than 300 laterals in 2021 - nearly 80 in New York and more than 60 in Chicago. Literally bursting at the seams here and they can’t even go over the top of DPW’s scale. I’m sure they will once again talk a big game in December and then have a 1.2x bonus multiplier median.

I'd love them to go over the top as well. But as discussed like 30 pages back on this thread, Kirkland is fighting the war for laterals and partners, not incoming law school grads. There is no indication that they're hurting in standard law school recruiting by just matching what the market does, so they would rather spend their money poaching from other firms.

[Anonymous User]

205 Crew:
Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, APKS, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:
DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Covington, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, Linklaters, FF, Shearman, Fenwick, HB

Still @ 200:
Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:
K&S, K&L, Perkins, A&B, Kilpatrick(compressed?)

Off-market:
Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

[NoLongerALurker]

I feel like a firm like Skadden paying 2.5k more (pro rated) to a stub, but still having an hours cut-off for bonus, means in total it should still be viewed as paying less than DPW. Dozens of first years every year lose like 15k because of workflow they can't control, but since they got an extra few hundred bucks during training Skadden gets to pretend it pays above DPW on lists like these? lawl.

[papermateflair]

205 Crew:
Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, APKS, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:
DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Covington, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, Linklaters, FF, Shearman, Fenwick, HB

Still @ 200:
Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:
K&S, K&L, Perkins, A&B, Kilpatrick(compressed?)

Off-market:
Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

Google doc is now updated to include the stub year amounts for the V50. Thanks for this update, and if anyone sees anything wrong or learns anything new, I'll update as needed. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[Bear2019]

205 Crew:
Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Latham, Kirkland, STB, PW, Sidley, PH, Ropes, Cooley, O'Melveny, APKS, DLA, Morgan Lewis, Mayer Brown, Willkie, Clifford, A&O

202.5 Crew:
DPW, Gibson, Weil, Quinn, Cleary, W&C, Covington, Debevoise, Wilmer, MoFo, Hogan, Proskauer, Boies, Goodwin, Akin, BM, Orrick, WSGR, Munger, BB, Linklaters, FF, Shearman, Fenwick, HB

Still @ 200:
Milbank, W&S

Still @ 190:
K&S, K&L, Perkins, A&B, Kilpatrick(compressed?)

Off-market:
Wachtell, Williams, Jones Day (lol)

Google doc is now updated to include the stub year amounts for the V50. Thanks for this update, and if anyone sees anything wrong or learns anything new, I'll update as needed. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

A&P is 202.5 not 205 according to ATL

[Anonymous User]

I feel like a firm like Skadden paying 2.5k more (pro rated) to a stub, but still having an hours cut-off for bonus, means in total it should still be viewed as paying less than DPW. Dozens of first years every year lose like 15k because of workflow they can't control, but since they got an extra few hundred bucks during training Skadden gets to pretend it pays above DPW on lists like these? lawl.

Stubs don't have an hour threshold at Skadden. Every stub gets the bonus. Same for the first years and the special covid bonuses this year—there's no hour threshold.

[Anonymous User]

Do we think the firms that are doing the DPW (202.5k) scale know that they are technically below market? I almost feel like they might not realize...?

This would be the only time ever that there's an actual split in the market compensation, no?

It really does seem like they don't realize they are below market. Weil matched days after other firms had gone to 205k.

[Anonymous User]

Really curious to see what KS & AB Atlanta do since those offices just raised to 190 a couple months ago.

I bet K&S really wishes they could back out of their announcement that all offices will get the same salary. There's really no doubt that they will eventually match in the non-ATL and non-Charlotte markets. It wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of ATL associates get shitcanned since they're about to become 30% more expensive overnight without a corresponding increase in hourly rates.

I would assume that leadership was smart enough to anticipate possible future salary increases this year when they announced the “unified” salaries. So I assume that they will raise in all markets (including ATL and Charlotte).