2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I cannot imagine caring that someone transferred schools, let alone expending absolutely any effort to determine that they transferred schools. The poster is a lunatic and I feel comfortable saying that everyone can safely ignore them.

Way to read into my initial post. I did not say that summers should take it upon themselves to reveal that they are transfers. No one cares. They can say they go to the school they transferred to. But certainly they should NOT be making up stories / experiences about 1L year at a school that they were not at. It's a bad look with very little pay off. Plus now at least 4-5 associates within the practice group know that they lied for absolutely no reason.

For more context without giving too much away, I was at an event where this person was telling stories for about 10 mins about their 1L year at the school they weren't at. I realized this based on other summers having gone to school with them during 1L telling me which summers they know from their school. It's pretty fucking weird to lie to your future colleagues about something like this.

[Anonymous User]

2L SA. I like the people I work with, but I really feel like I don’t belong.

The partners, associates, and summers in my office have parents who were doctors/lawyers/big financial folks—I know this because it’s come up on occassion when people ask about family, or through topics like past vacations.

I was the first person in my family to go to college at all (and certainly the first to go to law school). I was in a children’s home at one point. I haven’t gone on any fancy trips to see the world, I can’t contribute to conversations about fine dining, and I’m just feeling out of place. I’m also from a state law school.

I’ve worked hard to get here, and I believe in my ability to do the work as much as the next person, but sometimes it feels like nothing I do will ever allow me to catch up and belong. Has anyone else been here? Does it get better?

I don't have the same background as you, so take this with a grain of salt. With that said, I understand why it would be difficult being around people who had (and frequently talk about) experiences you never had,
Hopefully these four things might make you feel a bit more at ease:

1) As someone with a completely different background (comfortably upper middle class, both parents had masters degrees), I hardly notice who came from lots of money and who did not. I understand why you might feel like you stand out on the inside, but for the people on the other side talking about fine dining/vacations, they 100% don't notice that you don't have similar experiences to share. In short, while it might feel awkward or isolating on your end, nobody is going to notice that you're only asking questions rather than sharing experiences. As an example, despite growing up upper middle class, my family did not do much traveling at all. So when others talk about travel, I just ask polite and engaging questions about where they went, what they liked, and what I should see if I ever go there. My own limited international travel - a cruise to Bermuda when I was in elementary school and a trip to Canada with my high school - never comes up. Similarly, I have a close friend who grew up in the country and hates fancy food. They often profess that a greasy burger is all you need, and that overpriced tapas will only leave you hungry at the end of the night.

2) As others have said, it will get better. The summer is filled with social events; Biglaw is not. After you survive the summer, 99% of your conversations at work will be about work and work only. This is even more true with WFH.

3) I think there are more people in your shoes than you would think. In fact, many people fake it. I have a friend who came from one of the hardest family situations I've ever heard of who came a long way in life and now takes the most extravagant looking vacations despite only being a resident (i.e., not making the mega doctor bucks yet). Even I have spent some time researching common travel destinations and other "rich people things" so I can at least ask intelligent questions. I don't say this to suggest that you should fake it or that it's just as hard for me as it is for you (it's not). I merely wish to point out that some of the people who talk the most about fancy stuff actually came from very little and try to overcompensate once they are making $200k+. Don't be discouraged.

4) Most importantly and especially with today's emphasis on diversity, your background makes you an asset - not an outcast. It's all the more impressive that you made it to where you are without having mommy and daddy to help get your foot in the door at a top school/firm. I don't mean to imply that it is easy to open up about your background or prior station in life, but if you do, I believe you will be met with support and respect. Maybe just knowing that will help.

[Anonymous User]

lmao who looks at summer resumes? I’m just taking people to lunch I’m not scrubbing their shit to see their employment history why would you do that

[Anonymous User]

Deleted

[Anonymous User]

I cannot imagine caring that someone transferred schools, let alone expending absolutely any effort to determine that they transferred schools. The poster is a lunatic and I feel comfortable saying that everyone can safely ignore them.

Way to read into my initial post. I did not say that summers should take it upon themselves to reveal that they are transfers. No one cares. They can say they go to the school they transferred to. But certainly they should NOT be making up stories / experiences about 1L year at a school that they were not at. It's a bad look with very little pay off. Plus now at least 4-5 associates within the practice group know that they lied for absolutely no reason.

For more context without giving too much away, I was at an event where this person was telling stories for about 10 mins about their 1L year at the school they weren't at. I realized this based on other summers having gone to school with them during 1L telling me which summers they know from their school. It's pretty fucking weird to lie to your future colleagues about something like this.

That's wild. I've seen people on LinkedIn put the law school they transferred into as if they attended for 3 years (September 2020 - May 2023), or just put the graduation date without mentioning where they did their 1L year at but that's on another level. Almost no one would care whether you transferred or not, but misrepresentation/intentional omission makes things look bad.

[Anonymous User]

I cannot imagine caring that someone transferred schools, let alone expending absolutely any effort to determine that they transferred schools. The poster is a lunatic and I feel comfortable saying that everyone can safely ignore them.

Way to read into my initial post. I did not say that summers should take it upon themselves to reveal that they are transfers. No one cares. They can say they go to the school they transferred to. But certainly they should NOT be making up stories / experiences about 1L year at a school that they were not at. It's a bad look with very little pay off. Plus now at least 4-5 associates within the practice group know that they lied for absolutely no reason.

For more context without giving too much away, I was at an event where this person was telling stories for about 10 mins about their 1L year at the school they weren't at. I realized this based on other summers having gone to school with them during 1L telling me which summers they know from their school. It's pretty fucking weird to lie to your future colleagues about something like this.

I feel like this is common? I know someone who does this lol

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

I actually would not care at all if someone lied about transferring. And the summer shouldn’t even care they got caught. When they show up for full-time in 16 months, half the current full timers won’t work there anymore. And most of their fellow summers were probably gossipy assholes anyway, so no loss there.

[dyemond]

I actually would not care at all if someone lied about transferring. And the summer shouldn’t even care they got caught. When they show up for full-time in 16 months, half the current full timers won’t work there anymore. And most of their fellow summers were probably gossipy assholes anyway, so no loss there.

it’s such a dumb thing to lie about though. don’t care at all that you transferred but it’s bugging out a bit to just lie about it

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

[Anonymous User]

Consequences? Good practice at setting boundaries, which will improve their odds of career happiness and success. And probably the heightened respect of some other attorneys at the firm.

Whether to talk to recruiting is firm-dependent. The fact that a first year associate is doing this suggests it's more of a free-market system, and saying "no" is *expected* at some of those firms. In that setting talking to recruiting still won't likely be a problem, but doesn't seem necessary.

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

At my firm, the recruiting department would tell off that first year associate if they learned about it. The first year is on a power trip and that hurts recruiting. If I were the summer, I would ask a recruiter/assignment coordinator/summer program lead for "advice," like, "Do you have any advice about how to balance my workload? For example, First Year Associate has repeatedly asked me to do XYZ. How should I handle it?" Or even just tell a recruiter, "Sorry, I can't attend this summer event with the partners because I have to stay late to do this [nonsense assignment] from First Year Associate." YMMV, but at my firm, that would do the trick.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

There would be no negative consequences if addressed respectfully and reasonably. SA assignments are just meant to be an activity that helps fill their days and give them an idea of what the job entails. Recruiting doesn’t want rogue first years to run summers out of town.

[jsnow212]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

The first-year power trip.

Agree with others who have suggested politely/professionally addressing it with recruiting.

Even places that have "tough " cultures for full-timers specifically go out of their way to make sure that this isn't happening to summers. Recruiting primes associates to make sure this isn't the norm. No big deal to bring it up.

[BrowsingTLS]

If I knew a first year on my team was making a summer work after 6pm regularly I would shut it down. Especially if it was after 10pm. That should not happen at any firm and any first year who would do that is an asshole. If the work needs to be done that late you need to do it as the associate or manage up.

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

None unless the firm is insane. Not like the first year can escalate their power tripping. They would get shut down by midlevel/senior/partner.

If you’re concerned about the first year misrepresenting the situation and making you look bad, I would just reach out to another person more senior on the deal team or in the summer associate assignment committee. I would want to know if a first year I work with was doing this.

[Anonymous User]

One SA made a proposal that all SAs chip in some money to buy a thank-you gift ($500 value) to a partner who hosted an event for us. How is this viewed in the firm? Common practice?

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

I'm just trying to figure out what SA-appropriate task is the type of thing that might need to be done at 10PM.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

None unless the firm is insane. Not like the first year can escalate their power tripping. They would get shut down by midlevel/senior/partner.

If you’re concerned about the first year misrepresenting the situation and making you look bad, I would just reach out to another person more senior on the deal team or in the summer associate assignment committee. I would want to know if a first year I work with was doing this.

Correct. People on this forum think I’m an asshole, incel, etc. But if any paralegal or SA needed to log off for the night, I will 100% of the time thank them for their help and take it from there. It’s simply my job to be accountable and take it past the finish line.

[Anonymous User]

2L SA. I like the people I work with, but I really feel like I don’t belong.

The partners, associates, and summers in my office have parents who were doctors/lawyers/big financial folks—I know this because it’s come up on occassion when people ask about family, or through topics like past vacations.

I was the first person in my family to go to college at all (and certainly the first to go to law school). I was in a children’s home at one point. I haven’t gone on any fancy trips to see the world, I can’t contribute to conversations about fine dining, and I’m just feeling out of place. I’m also from a state law school.

I’ve worked hard to get here, and I believe in my ability to do the work as much as the next person, but sometimes it feels like nothing I do will ever allow me to catch up and belong. Has anyone else been here? Does it get better?

Yes, 80 or 90 percent of that will go away when you start full time. This summer is a lot of small talk, meals, and social events. As a full time associate you will spend a much higher percentage of your time doing real work. While Richy McRich IV may be a better person for the partner to do a wine tasting with, this all matters less when the partner just needs you both to be responsive and do (mostly simple) tasks reliably.

This, but also over time you’ll quickly become accustomed to things like fine dining and travel. Your own experiences as a wealthy professional + experiences at the firm (ie free dinners at fancy restaurants) + absorbing from conversations with others.

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

At my firm, the recruiting department would tell off that first year associate if they learned about it. The first year is on a power trip and that hurts recruiting. If I were the summer, I would ask a recruiter/assignment coordinator/summer program lead for "advice," like, "Do you have any advice about how to balance my workload? For example, First Year Associate has repeatedly asked me to do XYZ. How should I handle it?" Or even just tell a recruiter, "Sorry, I can't attend this summer event with the partners because I have to stay late to do this [nonsense assignment] from First Year Associate." YMMV, but at my firm, that would do the trick.

At my firm, recruiting would bitch at even a partner who did that, let alone a first year. During my summer, they found out that a 6th year was overworking a summer and made them miss a summer event, and recruiting gave them an earful about it.

This is at Kirkland & Ellis btw. Not exactly a reputation for being soft and cuddly.

Go tell that first year to fuck off lol

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

At my firm, the recruiting department would tell off that first year associate if they learned about it. The first year is on a power trip and that hurts recruiting. If I were the summer, I would ask a recruiter/assignment coordinator/summer program lead for "advice," like, "Do you have any advice about how to balance my workload? For example, First Year Associate has repeatedly asked me to do XYZ. How should I handle it?" Or even just tell a recruiter, "Sorry, I can't attend this summer event with the partners because I have to stay late to do this [nonsense assignment] from First Year Associate." YMMV, but at my firm, that would do the trick.

At my firm, recruiting would bitch at even a partner who did that, let alone a first year. During my summer, they found out that a 6th year was overworking a summer and made them miss a summer event, and recruiting gave them an earful about it.

This is at Kirkland & Ellis btw. Not exactly a reputation for being soft and cuddly.

Go tell that first year to fuck off lol

Second this. Recruiting can be oddly powerful depending on the firm. I know a certain recruiting head at K&E Chicago takes their job very seriously and has significant pull with partners and associates.

[Anonymous User]

What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.

Not adding much beyond other posts, but is this junior CCing anybody else on those emails? There's absolutely no problem going to recruiting about this, but talking to someone else on the team is another viable route. If I saw a junior email a summer to do something late at night I would 100% chew them out for it.

Re: asking to work with someone else - that's totally fine as well. Your friend can even make up some bullshit reason like "I really want to branch out and work with more people." I said something like that to recruiting when I kept getting repeat mindlessly boring assignments from this partner/senior, and they moved me right along to the next matter.

[Anonymous User]

I just had a loss in the immediate family and will need to travel to attend a funeral in the next few weeks. Any tips on requesting time off for this? Should I just inform the recruiting coordinator, or would it make sense to notify any attorneys I have assignments with as well?

[LBJ's Hair]

I just had a loss in the immediate family and will need to travel to attend a funeral in the next few weeks. Any tips on requesting time off for this? Should I just inform the recruiting coordinator, or would it make sense to notify any attorneys I have assignments with as well?

1) sorry to hear that's terrible
2) tell recruiting and they'll handle it
3) you're a summer take as much time as you need, no one expects you to do anything useful even absent a loss in the family

[Right2BearArms]

One SA made a proposal that all SAs chip in some money to buy a thank-you gift ($500 value) to a partner who hosted an event for us. How is this viewed in the firm? Common practice?

Yeah... no...

Idk how the firm would view it, but dont spend your money on buying someone who makes several multiples of your salary a business related gift, ever.

Said partner probably got their home professionally cleaned before and after the event at a minimum in additional to whatever goodwill they got from the office for hosting. The summers didnt ask them to host, and they have no obligation to do more than to not break anything and say "thank you, you have a lovely home" to the host and their spouse/SO when leaving IMO.